BMS-Free, info for the curious on bypassing the BM-mess

[megacycle]

Well you guys are motivated
Agreed rotating will be more work but very bond
If i remmber right Danny did say they would need to update hardware for cell level monitoring, i dont think well see if for a while but if he managed to do it that would put him in a league of his own afaik, winning.
I dont have a smart phone yet but looking :wink:

Yeh with the hardware issue, they are probably flat out attending to all those software mods everyone's asking for and balk at guys with hardware mod requests, would they be better making a separate device that interfaces, maybe? but then that's the wallet getting bashed again, but as Hughes mentioned i wouldn't think to long about forking out $100+ too, for a neat integrated set up on the phone.

 

[megacycle]

I just went on a ride and came very close to over discharging my pack. I checked the cell log just in time. My friend's fully managed pack cut out about 1/4 mile later. We were both running 48v 10 ah packs. I ordered more hobby king cells to go up to 15 ah on this bike. I also ordered some of those light matrix hobby king cell monitors for only $8 each. If those don't work well for me I'll get the chargery 12s or 16s monitor. I like the hobby king cheap monitors because they do not have various modes and buggy software to deal with. The downside is no alarm or alarm output. Maybe I will order a charges unit too so I have everything around the same time.

What happened did you only have one cellogs on ?
I made a similar mistake and ran out of juice and had left my cellogs at home.
Kept on trying to ride as it was about 4 k's home, got back to find several cells had gone well under and a couple looked bugge@#d but appeared to come back when charged, dont know are they going to fail premature?

 

[megacycle]

Unstuck one of the cellog lcds and it flexed all the way forward on its cable, but when i plugged it in nothing :?
Quick put it back together, as only got 3 of them for my 3 series, and back to normal.
Not sure strange but there's a metal strip on the screen back, not sure if that did it strange??
Anyway while it was like that i couldnt find any permutation that gave a better layout than already got :? oh well under worth a look
Still trying to order my powerlog Emoto, but wanted all the extras, like the temp sensors too,
but HK are dragging there heels, did you have the extra temp sensors on yours?
Are they just a bead dyou know or are they another type, been waiting about a week for info :?

 

[Emoto]

I like the hobby king cheap monitors because they do not have various modes and buggy software to deal with. The downside is no alarm or alarm output. Maybe I will order a charges unit too so I have everything around the same time.

Afaik this is quite accurate with alarm http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18987__On_Board_Lipoly_Low_Voltage_Alarm_2s_4s_.html limited to 4s
there is also a 8s hardcase version i dont know about accuracy.

Mega : I only got the Cell-log 6s as standard, i dont have it now/ went round to show a mate and plugged a 3s in [ correct polarity ] to show him how awsome it was and boof / small spark OW , Still worked but was alarming incorrectly on 3rd cell, callabrated it but had to send it back.
I think they should change the balance wire connection to female jstxh or similar. never happened to my 8s.
Try this thread i think they talk about alternative temp censors http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1055820

 

[mr.electric]

The chargery unit comes with a temp sensor.
http://www.chargery.com/doc/Chargery%20BM16LP%20specification%20%20V2.0.pdf
Features wise it is what I need. $45 for the 16s version + $20 shipping. So two would be $55 each. Worth the money if it saves a pack if they are reliable.
I don't have the cell taps up to the handlebars so my cell logs are in the bike bag. At the moment I have to check once stopped. I do have a volt readout on the bars. It is hard for me to actually stop riding at a certain voltage. A fuel gauge would be better. An on board charger would help too.

 

[Arlo1]

I looked for a good BMS for HK Lipo for a while. But as luke pointed out 99% of them are Junk or Battery Murdering Systems. I have used Lipo alarms while charging and bulk charged then used battery medics to bring the hi cells down. Now I just purchased one of these. For balancing. I also have plans for my 31 4-5V isolated 20 amp DC/DC converters. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/bc168-1-6s-8000ma-200w-high-precision-lcd-intellective-balance-charger-124483
I kinda lost interest in the BMS thing because of all the other options and i want to be able to leave my lipo for a few weeks with out something drawing it down.
I did invest in a bunch of methods HVC LVC boards and I do suggest them for any lipo user.

 

[mr.electric]

I looked for a good BMS for HK Lipo for a while. But as luke pointed out 99% of them are Junk or Battery Murdering Systems.

Posters on this thread are looking for non bms solutions. A readout may be all it takes, if it is easy to read at a glance. Seeing your state of charge would be nice too. lVC too would really be getting somewhere.

 

[megacycle]

Yeh having the SOC info like that looks kool.
Still a too pricey for most, but got some great features
The temp sensors could go to your motor & controller instead, sweet.
Group buy $20 each dream on the :lol: .

 

[megacycle]

I looked for a good BMS for HK Lipo for a while. But as luke pointed out 99% of them are Junk or Battery Murdering Systems. I have used Lipo alarms while charging and bulk charged then used battery medics to bring the hi cells down. Now I just purchased one of these. For balancing. I also have plans for my 31 4-5V isolated 20 amp DC/DC converters. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/bc168-1-6s-8000ma-200w-high-precision-lcd-intellective-balance-charger-124483
I kinda lost interest in the BMS thing because of all the other options and i want to be able to leave my lipo for a few weeks with out something drawing it down.
I did invest in a bunch of methods HVC LVC boards and I do suggest them for any lipo user.

Are they the same ones as Hyena sourced?
Price is ball park for me nice.
They look like a good idea for bulk charging as your doing and then topping off being only 250W total.
Is that what you getting them to do?
Im switching my packs from 18S, 2P to 6S 6P so they look like the ducks for that for me

With the dc converters so you'd have like 3kW worth.
I bought a RSP 3000 for 3kW charging so i can bulk charge my 8Ah, 6S, 6P @ 100A+, that 6S individual balance charger could top them, that way dont need a big string of high power single cell chargers as Lipo seems to look after itself until they get close to the mark, would be a good idea for Lifepo4 though, if i bulk mine at 3kW, alarms are going off pretty early in.

 

[megacycle]

Had an
The meanwell is switched off by the first cellog hv alarm and the top up charger already connected is switched on to finish it and moi can have another sherbert
Shame there not cheap, comparatively small or 20+V input, concept might have been good for lvc, cellog switches on the balancing charger at first lvc alarm, charger is supplied by its own pack and bottom balances.

 

[Arlo1]

Are they the same ones as Hyena sourced?
Price is ball park for me nice.
They look like a good idea for bulk charging as your doing and then topping off being only 250W total.
Is that what you getting them to do?
Im switching my packs from 18S, 2P to 6S 6P so they look like the ducks for that for me

With the dc converters so you'd have like 3kW worth.
I bought a RSP 3000 for 3kW charging so i can bulk charge my 8Ah, 6S, 6P @ 100A+, that 6S individual balance charger could top them, that way dont need a big string of high power single cell chargers as Lipo seems to look after itself until they get close to the mark, would be a good idea for Lifepo4 though, if i bulk mine at 3kW, alarms are going off pretty early in.

I have not tried the new charger yet I just picked it up yesterday.
I Have 2 3000 watt hp server supplies I plan to make a mega charger with.
I dont like changing packs from series to parallel. To many people fry thier fingers this way. But the plan will be to just use the new charger to ballance when needed. Although Im going to try it tonight and if I like it Im thinking about ordering a second one and being able to charge 12s through the ballance wires. Then I will order 2 more in the spring so I can ballance charge 24s! Maybe.... I need more time to assemble this stufff lol.

 

[megacycle]

Yeh big problem that, life getting in the way of efun.
Your 3kW server psu is that llightweight
Im on the lookout for a light portable psu,
dont want to pull apart the RSP just yet
new and its only a few kgs and removing all that aluminum and docker busbar would be just over a kg

With the series/ parallel thing, there's obviously been a lot KF'd
and consequently i think it now is overstated that basically everyone is told it is not good practice.
When interlocking could be in place to stop it, which Im working on for my setup.
Basically you physically cannot connect the packs in series if the balance leads are paralleled, the plugs themselves restrict the operation of a switch or other plugs cannot be inserted.

 

[Arlo1]

Nope 3kw psu is about 2 feet by 6 inches by 3 inches (roughly) and about 25 lbs! Not portable. You realy dont want to be taking them on the road because the road bumps will be hard on the internals. I am going to set up a small slow charger to get me out of a bind onboard my E-YSR and have the fast charging at my house and shop!

 

[megacycle]

Geez i thought mine was awkward at 8.8lbs, though i expect yours was fair bit < $700+ i payed.
Though i must admit it does the business really well and i think there is current control in it, playing with the internal pots, though Im not game enough till i can get a service manual.
Big thanks to Fetch' helped me with upping the volts. Made me think might be able to help me there too.

 

[megacycle]

Looked up a couple of your tube offerings, bike, loving it.
Makes me wanna get the brushed mars motor out of the box, for a build.
Its looking forlorn after receiving a couple of big hubbies from Hyena.
But i think that it maybe destined for a kart eventually.

 

[Arlo1]

Geez i thought mine was awkward at 8.8lbs, though i expect yours was fair bit < $700+ i payed.
Though i must admit it does the business really well and i think there is current control in it, playing with the internal pots, though Im not game enough till i can get a service manual.
Big thanks to Fetch' helped me with upping the volts. Made me think might be able to help me there too.

Might be 10-15 lbs lol but its big and bulky and heavy not for hauling around. Besides its 220v imput so you need a 15 amp braker or higher with a 220 outlet!

 

[Emoto]

I looked for a good BMS for HK Lipo for a while. But as luke pointed out 99% of them are Junk or Battery Murdering Systems.

Posters on this thread are looking for non bms solutions. A readout may be all it takes, if it is easy to read at a glance. Seeing your state of charge would be nice too. lVC too would really be getting somewhere.

Agree on dont leave these cheap hk monitors plunged in unmonitored, will be interesting to see how accurate the chargery monitors are.
Ive been real interested for a while in the charger arlo posted i like the simplicity of it.[ when charging/discharging my rc lipos i just monitor cell level ]
Mega i have another on the cell-log dash, how about just 2 cell-logs and a physical switch of some sought to toggle between for 24s [ havent had the time to think of the wiring side life is crazy atm]

 

[megacycle]

Yeh need 2x7dpst or 1x14dpst older style audio might do, would have to be careful lot of magic smoke and sound and light show if wasn't break b4 make or solder iron bridges.
Though there's electronic matrix switches that might do the deed if your that savvy, over my head for sure :?
But Im happy bout my little naked set up for now.
Still no temp sensors that's a heck of a long thread to look through

 

[megacycle]

Dadanadada my Speedict's rocked up, s%@#t its tinsy.
Thought there was nought in the box.

I'm pretty certain those temp sensors transmit data, now.
Thanks for your help there Moto.So ill order some.

Arlo, we're the lucky b@%#rds who have the 230-250V as standard at the wall plugs, sorry
and 415V for the miltiphase chargers.
I've got the 15A plug on in the garage so I don't have missus cursing just in case I trip house circuits.

 

[Arlo1]

[youtube]ItDkde7SW_I[/youtube]

 

[jonescg]

Arlo, we're the lucky b@%#rds who have the 230-250V as standard at the wall plugs, sorry
and 415V for the miltiphase chargers.
I've got the 15A plug on in the garage so I don't have missus cursing just in case I trip house circuits.

It must really suck only having 120 V outlets as standard. Mind you they come with 16 A breakers standard over there I think. Still, only 1800 W. Pfft. Bring on the 2.4 kW power I say

 

[Arlo1]

Arlo, we're the lucky b@%#rds who have the 230-250V as standard at the wall plugs, sorry
and 415V for the miltiphase chargers.
I've got the 15A plug on in the garage so I don't have missus cursing just in case I trip house circuits.

It must really suck only having 120 V outlets as standard. Mind you they come with 16 A breakers standard over there I think. Still, only 1800 W. Pfft. Bring on the 2.4 kW power I say

Our dryers, ovens, welders, compressors etc run on 220v I need to get 220 run into my garage but all in time. My 3600sq foot shop has 220 and some good breakers. I can make pretty fast chargers. I have 2 hp serversupplies and I plan to make a 6kw charger soon.

 

[megacycle]

I wish someone made them small.
There was a thread on DIYing some but died.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=34078
You could have a palm sized 6kW charger or at least bulk psu but were are they,
suppressed tech big oil conspiracy xfiles :lol:

 

[megacycle]

[youtube]ItDkde7SW_I[/youtube]

That was excellent mate.
Did you have a calibrated meter to check the volts were as read for accuracy

 

[Arlo1]

[youtube]ItDkde7SW_I[/youtube]

That was excellent mate.
Did you have a calibrated meter to check the volts were as read for accuracy

I have the lipo alarms and some HK battery medics and volt meters etc I will try a few things tonight and see. I think I forgot to mention in the video the coolest part that it charges at the cell level!