Build Help - Commuter (10Mi RT) For GF. (Update: Now for me)

wesnewell said:
Don't step on the bms, drop it off a building, drench it with water, etc., etc. Mount it securely to something.
The bms will balance charge as many as you want it to from 3 in series to as many as you want in parallel. 3,6,9,12,15,18, etc. This is a typical config for 12s3p using 4s packs.

It does not show the bms.


What's the best way to make these connections? Get a bunch of Anderson connectors and the proper wires or buy a bunch of harnesses? It seems like it would be hard to connect them in series the way the discharge connectors are (with the negative and positive ends held adjacent).

Do they make harnesses for connecting more than 2 packs in parallel/series, or would I just have to use 2 parallel harnesses to connect 3 in parallel?
 
To connect them in series you don't need anything. They come with 4mm gold bullet connectors that can be split, so just plug the black into the red of the next and so on. Just exactly like my diagram showed. You will need 3 6x (and only use 3 of the 6) parallel balance cables to parallel the cells and then connect them to the bms. And you'll need to make or buy a the power cables to connect to the bms. And finally you'll need to make the output cables of the bms that will connect the power to the controller and charge cables to plug the charger into. See their schematic and wiring diagram for the bms.
 
wesnewell said:
To connect them in series you don't need anything. They come with 4mm gold bullet connectors that can be split, so just plug the black into the red of the next and so on. Just exactly like my diagram showed. You will need 3 6x (and only use 3 of the 6) parallel balance cables to parallel the cells and then connect them to the bms. And you'll need to make or buy a the power cables to connect to the bms. And finally you'll need to make the output cables of the bms that will connect the power to the controller and charge cables to plug the charger into. See their schematic and wiring diagram for the bms.


Ah, I didn't realize you could just split those connectors. How do I connect those three negative wires on the left where the 3 rows come together in series? Do I just strip the wires, twist them up together and put the connector back on?

I think I have a shopping list for building the pack - but I haven't tackled how to connect to the BMS yet (does it require soldering?). So here is what I have:

(9) 4s Battery Packs - $225
3 Meters Red Silicone Wire (12AWG) - $6.60
3 Meters Black Silicone Wire (12AWG) - $6.60
(1) 10 pack 4mm HXT Gold connectors - w/ protector - $4.44
(4) JST-XH Parallel Balance Lead 4s 250mm - $6.20 - EDIT: I'm thinking I need only 3, and the 3 4-pin leads plug into the 12-pin connector on the BMS.

Do I have that right?

Now I'll start working on how to connect up to the BMS....
 
You never want to cut the pack wires in case you need to replace a pack or reconfigure it. I just make the wires that parallels the ends using gold bullet connectors and shrink tubing. Or you could just buy a 6x charge cable for ~$10 and split the connectors and use it for up to a 6p pack. Replace the 2 banana plugs with what mates to your controller or bms if you use one. Normally you'd solder direct to the bms.
 
wesnewell said:
You never want to cut the pack wires in case you need to replace a pack or reconfigure it. I just make the wires that parallels the ends using gold bullet connectors and shrink tubing. Or you could just buy a 6x charge cable for ~$10 and split the connectors and use it for up to a 6p pack. Replace the 2 banana plugs with what mates to your controller or bms if you use one. Normally you'd solder direct to the bms.

I I'm going to put the 3 packs in parallel using this: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=24422.html

I'll definitely use a BMS, but I have no idea what their connectors are. Nobody selling them makes it very clear (at least not to me).
 
Has anyone here, in the U.S., ever ordered from HK's "international" warehouse? They have everything and it's cheaper than the US warehouse. I just for want it to take 3-4 weeks.
 
No good/bad experiences with HK shipping?

Would this be a good candidate? https://neworleans.craigslist.org/bik/4614408017.html

Looks like it needs new pedals, front chain ring, pedals, new shifters...is $100 in parts a reasonable estimate? Are these things anyone can install?
 
$300 is premium price for that bike. I bet it needs more than what's listed there. On the other hand, just the 8-speed rear wheel and the shifter for it would run close to $300 by themselves. An internally geared hub like that is very easy to live with (until you have to fix a flat tire, anyway). Because of the special wheel in the back, the hub motor wheel should go in front.

The bike has 700c wheels and only enough room for skinny tires. That's good for keeping the weight down and for having a wide selection of fast tires, but bad for ride quality on rough streets, and vulnerable to punctures and tire damage. Most places outside of NOLA, I'd say no problem. But there, it's an issue.

It's easy enough to find 700c hub motor wheels, and front wheel kits are pretty easy to install. On the downside, there is no particularly good place to put a battery on that bike.

If she must have a folder, that's a pretty good choice. A 26" model that accepts fat tires would be better. But using a folder will make e-bike conversion significantly more complicated in terms of mounting the battery and other necessary parts.

In my observation, people who ride full-sized folding bikes only fold them to carry them in car trunks-- and people who ride e-bikes generally don't put them inside cars at all, because e-bikes are heavier and more susceptible to damage than pedal bikes.
 
Chalo said:
$300 is premium price for that bike. I bet it needs more than what's listed there. On the other hand, just the 8-speed rear wheel and the shifter for it would run close to $300 by themselves. An internally geared hub like that is very easy to live with (until you have to fix a flat tire, anyway). Because of the special wheel in the back, the hub motor wheel should go in front.

The bike has 700c wheels and only enough room for skinny tires. That's good for keeping the weight down and for having a wide selection of fast tires, but bad for ride quality on rough streets, and vulnerable to punctures and tire damage. Most places outside of NOLA, I'd say no problem. But there, it's an issue.

It's easy enough to find 700c hub motor wheels, and front wheel kits are pretty easy to install. On the downside, there is no particularly good place to put a battery on that bike.

If she must have a folder, that's a pretty good choice. A 26" model that accepts fat tires would be better. But using a folder will make e-bike conversion significantly more complicated in terms of mounting the battery and other necessary parts.

In my observation, people who ride full-sized folding bikes only fold them to carry them in car trunks-- and people who ride e-bikes generally don't put them inside cars at all, because e-bikes are heavier and more susceptible to damage than pedal bikes.

Yeah, I get the impression its a good deal, but not a great fit for an ebike in New Orleans. I'd be paying a premium to get something a few lbs lighter, which wont make a whole lot a difference once you add the motor and battery. I also know next to nothing about bike repair, but there is a Plan B bicycle shop that is a great resource. I might have a look at it - my one major concern is that I can't test-ride it, so it's hard to say how much work it needs and like you said it's probably more than he's saying.
 
My parameters have changed a bit. The girlfriend is balking, but I have decided I want one anyways. I'm pretty convinced she'll want one once she sees mine.

I'd still like to do a folder if possible, because she's going to most likely end up wanting one too, and then we could take them on road trips without much effort. However, I think I'll just watch craigslist and jump on the next great deal I find for a good base bicycle (folding or not). If she wants a folder I can always build two so we each have one.

I've ordered the batteries and accessories from HobbyKing, and the BMS/Charger from bmsbattery.

A couple more questions:

What kind of soldering iron should I get? I was thinking this one should do the trick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/

Also, what would you guys think about starting with this recumbent trike: http://sunbicycles.com/product_detail.php?short_code=EZ-3+SX+Tadpole&cl1=recumbent
I think it would be fun to ride, my one concern is no suspension.
 
Check out cwah's threads and fotos. He only uses folders and has a pretty big battery.
otherDoc
 
mark5 said:
nlhaines said:
What kind of soldering iron should I get? I was thinking this one should do the trick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/
If soldering bullet connectors and 12 awg or larger wires to connect lipo packs a larger, 70 watt or higher, soldering iron works well.


Would 70 Watt be okay for hooking up the BMS or do I need to get one with a variable power setting?
 
nlhaines said:
mark5 said:
nlhaines said:
What kind of soldering iron should I get? I was thinking this one should do the trick: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/
If soldering bullet connectors and 12 awg or larger wires to connect lipo packs a larger, 70 watt or higher, soldering iron works well.


Would 70 Watt be okay for hooking up the BMS or do I need to get one with a variable power setting?
In that case stay with your original choice of Weller 40-watt and get a butane soldering iron when you want more heat. Maybe like one of these:

Wall Lenk LSP-60-1 SOLDERPRO 60 3-in-1 Butane Powered Soldering Iron & Blow Torch
http://www.amazon.com/Wall-Lenk-LSP-60-1-SOLDERPRO-Soldering/dp/B000HE9T2E

Iso-Tip #7971 SolderPro 50 Butane Soldering Iron
http://www.amazon.com/Iso-Tip-7971-SolderPro-Butane-Soldering/dp/B001RIDT84

RadioShack butane iron: heat for heavy work by Reid Welch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSwnMMTltT4
 
So my batteries, BMS and charger arrived today...I'm looking at the BMS and I'm a bit confused about how to hook it up. Any help would be hugely appreciated.


Here is a link to the BMS:
http://www.bmsbattery.com/smart/330-lifepo4lithium-ion-smart-bms-for-513-cells-in-series.html

It came with no documentation, other than what is on the website. I was not surprised but I was hoping to get something....so I'm working purely off the few images on their site:
lifepo4lithium-ion-smart-bms-for-513-cells-in-series.jpg


So it has a JST-XH female connection on the board, and they provided me with the matching plug. It has 13 wires corresponding to b-, b1+, b2+, b3+....b12+. One thing that's odd, at least to me, is that b-, b1+, b2+....b11+ are grouped together and b12+ is separate. I imagine I have to match the b+ with the 4 black wires on each of the balance charge cables. Is this correct? Is there any restriction on how they are paired? Also, what is to be done with the b- wire....



I'm guessing C-, and C+ get matched with the charger, but what do B-, B+, P-, and P+ connect to? I would guess P-, and P+ go to the battery bullet connector, but that still leaves me guessing what B- is for.
lifepo4lithium-ion-smart-bms-for-513-cells-in-series.jpg
 
mark5 said:
Cursory search found this:

Re: connections for? EcityP Smart S5-13 BMS by Canoe
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20971#p305530


Thanks. I found this, which I think is helping:

file.php



So I think I connect "B-" to the "b-" from the JST connector. I connect the + end of the charger OR the + end of the load (i.e. controller) to P+. The negative end of the charger connects to "C-" and the negative end of the load (i.e. controller) connects to "P-".

Can anybody confirm this for me? I'm quite unsure and don't want to ruin anything.
 
Consider also requesting diagram confirmation in that BMS thread. Since there's a better chance people who use it would be reading there than here.
 
mark5 said:
Consider also requesting diagram confirmation in that BMS thread. Since there's a better chance people who use it would be reading there than here.

Thanks, I tried that. Hopefully I'll get a response soon. i'm pretty confounded at this point by whatever is going on with P+/C+, B-, and the 13 small wires....
 
Diagram posted by Canoe looked pretty straightforward. Why confounded or you simply wish confirmation?

Pending that it's also generally instructive to look at other brand BMS wiring pictures and diagrams with an E-S site-specific Google Image search using terms like "bms sense b- site:endless-sphere.com/forums/"

Also what packs did you end up buying, e.g. 3 4s lipos.
 
mark5 said:
Diagram posted by Canoe looked pretty straightforward. Why confounded or you simply wish confirmation?

Pending that it's also generally instructive to look at other brand BMS wiring pictures and diagrams with an E-S site-specific Google Image search using terms like "bms sense b- site:endless-sphere.com/forums/"

Also what packs did you end up buying, e.g. 3 4s lipos.

I tend to oscillate between confounded and unsure. What I don't get is why the + wires from the Charger, Load, and P+ (on the board) lead right up next to wire 13, but don't connect to it (at least I think).

Yeah, I went with 4s lipos. I got 9 for a 3s3p setup.
 
nlhaines said:
What I don't get is why the + wires from the Charger, Load, and P+ (on the board) lead right up next to wire 13, but don't connect to it (at least I think).
Probably just the way it was drawn. Likely they're all connected together. Why wouldn't they. Consider, for example, the visforvoltage diagram posted by agniusm below.


Re: A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit by SamRam
SamRam said:
I have muked around with a ping battery bms, and understand the basic operation. I am just unsure of the loads and actual wiring of my new pack. Could anyone point me in the direction of internet based learning for bms hookup?
Re: A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit by agniusm
agniusm said:
Sam, BMS witing is simple, i thought you should of got wiring diagram from PING? Well, here are few examples on wiring:
http://visforvoltage.org/files/u2627/bms_wiring.jpg
http://bmsbattery.com/330-582-thickbox/lifepo4lithium-ion-smart-bms-for-513-cells-in-series.jpg
http://www.ecitypower.com/download/...BMS Discharge and charge together Circuit.jpg
Sometimes so called smart BMS need positive thin wire connected to BMS for MCU to operate properly.
 
mark5 said:
nlhaines said:
What I don't get is why the + wires from the Charger, Load, and P+ (on the board) lead right up next to wire 13, but don't connect to it (at least I think).
Probably just the way it was drawn. Likely they're all connected together. Why wouldn't they. Consider, for example, the visforvoltage diagram posted by agniusm below.


Re: A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit by SamRam
SamRam said:
I have muked around with a ping battery bms, and understand the basic operation. I am just unsure of the loads and actual wiring of my new pack. Could anyone point me in the direction of internet based learning for bms hookup?
Re: A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit by agniusm
agniusm said:
Sam, BMS witing is simple, i thought you should of got wiring diagram from PING? Well, here are few examples on wiring:
http://visforvoltage.org/files/u2627/bms_wiring.jpg
http://bmsbattery.com/330-582-thickbox/lifepo4lithium-ion-smart-bms-for-513-cells-in-series.jpg
http://www.ecitypower.com/download/...BMS Discharge and charge together Circuit.jpg
Sometimes so called smart BMS need positive thin wire connected to BMS for MCU to operate properly.

Thank you this is immensely helpful.

bms_wiring.jpg


It looks like its not all that odd to connect the 3.

What AWG rating should I be using for this? Some of the wires seem pretty thin. I have some 12 AWG wire. Would it be wise to grab some 8 AWG as well?
 
Maybe I'm missing something. Do I hook the + bullet connector from the battery to anything? I don't see it anywhere on any of the diagrams.
 
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