Carbon Fiber E-Frame built ! by Doc

[Doctorbass]

A bit curious,what if any set backs or limited production etc might NYX have due to an unsuccessful KickStarter goal?

Anyway I just love following along with the great DoctorBass!

Happy to you all.

Tim.

They will continu to produce anyway. They have already orders and request. I dont worrie for them :wink:

Doc

 

[Willow]

:wink:

 

[QuestionMan]

Are you forced to use the square tapper bottom bracket? Or can you choose and or fit an ISIS bottom bracket?

 

[Doctorbass]

Are you forced to use the square tapper bottom bracket? Or can you choose and or fit an ISIS bottom bracket?

I am not 100% sure about that. I would suggest asking that question to NYXbikes. :wink:

 

[Arlo1]

That is roughly exactly the HP

^^ :lol:^^

Good work doc. You do very nice work!

 

[MadRhino]

if i can get 10.5hp or more from that X5 motor with only 32mm stator.. now imagine what i can get with a cromotor of 50mm stator and better lamination. I would expect at least 15-16hp minimum.

I don't know with the Max E, but a good old modded 18X4110 can survive feeding the cromotor above 30 HP. I believe you can pull much more than 10.5 HP off your X5402 after you start playiing with the controller tuning.

Just curious, what is the weight of your bike now ?

 

[NYXBikes]

Are you forced to use the square tapper bottom bracket? Or can you choose and or fit an ISIS bottom bracket?

For the moment, we only offer the Square Taper Axle.

 

[Doctorbass]

if i can get 10.5hp or more from that X5 motor with only 32mm stator.. now imagine what i can get with a cromotor of 50mm stator and better lamination. I would expect at least 15-16hp minimum.

I don't know with the Max E, but a good old modded 18X4110 can survive feeding the cromotor above 30 HP. I believe you can pull much more than 10.5 HP off your X5402 after you start playiing with the controller tuning.

Just curious, what is the weight of your bike now ?

I'm sure! But feeding 30hp mean nothing.. it's what you get at the Wheel that is important! there is a level of saturation on the stator that must be considered.

30hp is about 22kW (220A batt current at 100V) and I have been able to see 293A at 111v with my Kelly and about the same at 90V with my mooded 4110 18 fets but the C-A sometime have bizarre reading.. and it's like it measure the peak phase current value but we know it measure batt current...

With the Max E i have feed 10.5kW and got 10.5hp at the wheel with the controller limited in phase current. some reported being capable to feed 800A phase current woth the MAX-E but it's at lower voltage of 18s I'm sure.

problem with the 5302 is that it require mosfet with at least 1.5 time the rating voltage compare to the battery otherwise the low inductance will blow it up...

so with 100V rated mosfet I should drive this motor to about 66V to get max phase current out of the MAX-E.

Doc

 

[Stielz]

I like this bike.

Will you be attempting to tow a bus with it?

I'd be interested to see if the Max-E can take that kind of abuse

 

[Doctorbass]

I like this bike.

Will you be attempting to tow a bus with it?

I'd be interested to see if the Max-E can take that kind of abuse

I am not decided yet but i might go 2WD and install dual MAX-E and dual MXUS3000... that would be 24kW and over 200lb-ft torque if the weight is well shared over the two wheels ... witch is what is required for towing a schoolbus

A single MAX-E controller alone cost about 625$ outch... and in CAD with shipping that's about 900$ CAD.... plus the two MXUS 3000...

Or i might go with a single cromotor and single controller...

will depend on the money availlable...

btw i'm aware that the torque from the front wheel would not be so effective.. but that would depend on the type of use!.. drag racing? top speed? off road.. etc...



Doc

 

[Stielz]

Now that would be an insane bike. Who knows, maybe you could make something like that then sell it to some rich guy for like $20k, then make another for yourself.

Regarding traction on the front wheel, a moto tyre with low air pressure would give good grip - but still not enough for that amount of torque

 

[Doctorbass]

The 2WD idea is only for drag racing and test.. I want to be able to swap the front wheel is few minutes to go back to normal rear 1wd drive...

Some suggested to use a more powerfull motor on the rear wheel.. but to get the same power i would need to get a rear heavy hub motor with very large axel like the scooter hub motor and i would just hate it for all the regular run i make...

With the idea of two medium size motor ( 3000W rated) i can keep one on the rear wheel all the time with low weight.. and swap the front wheel to a front hub motor wheel in few minutes... to convert to 2WD :wink:

Drag racing.. various high aceleration test for the eyes of E-S etc that would be max 24kW on two 24 x 3 tires. The bike would weight just 25 more pounds for the 2WD swap.

The actual Farasis cells based battery i have can take 400A according to Luke so both controller with 160A batt current and 400A phase woudl be just perfect.. 320A batt =)))

As well the grip of the front wheel hub motor would be lower for the first km/h but then once the torque reduce a bit at a given speed i wouls still get the peak power of both motor =)

Doc

 

[diggler]

wow doc just wow.
What voltage would it be at 160a each?
What would the total weight be with both motors?
Even though it's expensive I hope you do it!
Has a 2wd mxus 3000 been done? With max e's?
Any thought's on cooling them?

 

[Doctorbass]

wow doc just wow.
What voltage would it be at 160a each?
What would the total weight be with both motors?
Even though it's expensive I hope you do it!
Has a 2wd mxus 3000 been done? With max e's?
Any thought's on cooling them?

I would run probably 20 or 22s.. it will depend if I choose a 3T or a 4T motor. With a 4T I would keep 22s but with a 3T I would need to drop to 20s.

with both motor the bike should weight about 130 pounds. the actual battery can supply no prob two controller for 320A!

No.. and dual Max E on 2WD have not been done yet on E-S.. .but I heard that about 4 person did it in Russia if I remember.

No special cooling.. justtemp monitoring :wink: The test will decide!

Doc

 

[burton]

This looks like a ton of fun!

I found out about the NYX on your youtube page doc.

Question for you. I have been seriously considering getting a FX so I can ride off-road but the cost is a barrier to entry for a bike I wouldn't take off-road often enough since I ride my Zero 2013 SR every day.

Do you think an ebike like this could survive off-road dirtbike conditions well and would be just as fun? Also how would you spec out such a bike made strictly for single tracking, offroad fun?

I know nothing about ebikes so I don't know what equipment costs or how to spec out a build. It would be nice to know a setup beefy enough for some serious off-road action so I can start pricing it out.

Thanks!

 

[Doctorbass]

This looks like a ton of fun!

I found out about the NYX on your youtube page doc.

Question for you. I have been seriously considering getting a FX so I can ride off-road but the cost is a barrier to entry for a bike I wouldn't take off-road often enough since I ride my Zero 2013 SR every day.

Do you think an ebike like this could survive off-road dirtbike conditions well and would be just as fun? Also how would you spec out such a bike made strictly for single tracking, offroad fun?

I know nothing about ebikes so I don't know what equipment costs or how to spec out a build. It would be nice to know a setup beefy enough for some serious off-road action so I can start pricing it out.

Thanks!

Burton, this forum is by far the best forum you can find for ebike info. :wink:

Power to weight ratio can be similar on extreme ebike build. it is "normal" or should I say.. common to reach 100+km/h on an ebike today with the available parts, ( motor, battery and controller) The NYX is exactly a frame that can stil look like a bicycle and not a motorcycle due to his narrow width and it can cary 200km of battery and be up to 10-15kW with the best parts available. mine actually output 10.5hp at the wheel and weight 100 pounds. with a old gen motor ( 7 years old) it can reach 113km/h.

To give you a great idea about ebike and a Zero, Alan wrote recently about his experience about that. Hi own already a ebike and he tested a Zero for the first time and is comparing them with pros and cons.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=68060

Doc

 

[Longshot]

I like this bike.

Will you be attempting to tow a bus with it?

I'd be interested to see if the Max-E can take that kind of abuse

I am not decided yet but i might go 2WD and install dual MAX-E and dual MXUS3000... that would be 24kW and over 200lb-ft torque if the weight is well shared over the two wheels ... witch is what is required for towing a schoolbus

A single MAX-E controller alone cost about 625$ outch... and in CAD with shipping that's about 900$ CAD.... plus the two MXUS 3000...

Or i might go with a single cromotor and single controller...

will depend on the money availlable...


btw i'm aware that the torque from the front wheel would not be so effective.. but that would depend on the type of use!.. drag racing? top speed? off road.. etc...



Doc

Yep, Ive been thinking about 2wd. why not cromotor in the rear and something smaller and lighter in front? I dont think i would want a lot of weight in the front unless the bike was forkless.

 

[Longshot]

I like this bike.

Will you be attempting to tow a bus with it?

I'd be interested to see if the Max-E can take that kind of abuse

I am not decided yet but i might go 2WD and install dual MAX-E and dual MXUS3000... that would be 24kW and over 200lb-ft torque if the weight is well shared over the two wheels ... witch is what is required for towing a schoolbus

A single MAX-E controller alone cost about 625$ outch... and in CAD with shipping that's about 900$ CAD.... plus the two MXUS 3000...

Or i might go with a single cromotor and single controller...

will depend on the money availlable...


He will have to tow 2 busses then...

btw i'm aware that the torque from the front wheel would not be so effective.. but that would depend on the type of use!.. drag racing? top speed? off road.. etc...



Doc

 

[Sr.Agaporni]

Funny test. Need to suscribe

 

[QuestionMan]

Doctorbass, I don't see that the NYX bike has clamping dropouts.

I know they are supported well but it has been debated here that without a clamping dropouts the axle will rock in the dropouts from regen and acceleration and develop very slight play. This slight play could weaken the axle and eventually break it. It has been shown before that this happens.

What are your thoughts on the bike not having clamping dropouts?

 

[ridethelightning]

+1

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

stealth also does not use clamping dropout..
instead they use torque bock..
seems to work fine there (if correctly installed/maintained)

"
NYX 2015 Frame Kit can easily accommodate more than 10 kW of power and is designed to withstand the torque and forces implied.

Our design is equipped with torque arms to prevent any failure at the motor axle and swing arms, where most forces are applied. The torque arms will secure your wheel, withstand the torque and efficiently transfer the motor movement with minimal losses. The material used is a thick and highly wear-resistant 1/4" HARDOX 450 steel to prevent the motor axle to tear off or impair movement translation.

Heavy-Duty Hardox 450 Torque Arms
"
(https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/nyx2015/nyx-2015-the-worlds-first-carbon-fiber-e-bike-fram)

 

[Doctorbass]

Doctorbass, I don't see that the NYX bike has clamping dropouts.

I know they are supported well but it has been debated here that without a clamping dropouts the axle will rock in the dropouts from regen and acceleration and develop very slight play. This slight play could weaken the axle and eventually break it. It has been shown before that this happens.

What are your thoughts on the bike not having clamping dropouts?

No they are not clamping but the play is very low when the motor axel is quality with accuate machining dimension of around 10.0mm

I have used 330A phase on my X5 to get about 120lb-ft on the axel and also used variable regen and i never noticed any play and the axel nuts was still tightened whne i remove dthe motor :wink: All of my E-bike that have regen that totalize 18000km from now never used any clamping dropout. I'm not saying it is not a good idea.. but when the motor quality is good the axel tolerance are generally good and when assembled on great quality dropout components you dont get any problem.

For those who have a axel that is like 9.9mm or 9.8mm, you can clock with some shim one of the torque arm relative to the other to clamp between both side.

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

This is confirmed. I will make my first NYX to be 2WD with easy front motor removal for 1WD.

I am working woth Oleg at Adaptto drive lab to get another Max-E in slave to my 1st max-E and get these shipped soon.

I will play with that and experiment the feeling and the pros and cons of 2WD. I will also spend time to tune the proper power curve to the front Wheel.

I might go with a rear Cromotor ans a front MXUS 3000 or dual MXUS 3000 but i'm still waiting to get the MXUS3000 in 3T version to be availlabe on the ebike simulator to compare.

I am not decided yet if i go with the 3t or 4T... and if i keep 22s or drop to 20s... it will depend on the motor choice alot of decision coming guys! :lol:

Doc

 

[Longshot]

This is confirmed. I will make my first NYX to be 2WD with easy front motor removal for 1WD.

I am working woth Oleg at Adaptto drive lab to get another Max-E in slave to my 1st max-E and get these shipped soon.

I will play with that and experiment the feeling and the pros and cons of 2WD. I will also spend time to tune the proper power curve to the front Wheel.

I might go with a rear Cromotor ans a front MXUS 3000 or dual MXUS 3000 but i'm still waiting to get the MXUS3000 in 3T version to be availlabe on the ebike simulator to compare.

I am not decided yet if i go with the 3t or 4T... and if i keep 22s or drop to 20s... it will depend on the motor choice alot of decision coming guys! :lol:

Doc

A maxe for the front seems like a waste without traction. Is it possible to use a mini in the front and a maxe for the rear? Will you use a nice fork with dampening? I wonder how the variable regen will feel on the front.