Compare HPC to Stealth

[Hyena]

Certainly not trying to sell you on anything since you've already laid down your money and love your bike

LOL, I'm actually the least one-eyed stealth owner here. (here's an old photo of my bike collection, I've since added 2 more to it - https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t31.0-8/10750209_720628874691064_7847534129644492358_o.jpg)
These is no one universally ideal ebike for all situations, nor does any particular off the shelf ebike suit my personal tastes for the intended purpose - hence my above collection (albeit more than most need/want)

I looked really hard at the Fighter, but I didn't like the 24 inch wheels and the smaller, less powerful motor. It's got a 3500 watt motor and the HPC has a 5000 watt motor

They actually both use the same motor, as does the kit I posted earlier. The difference is the power of the controller which as you noticed is also the same. EDIT: I see the others have already jumped on you for all the wrong info you're spouting. :lol:

The HPC has a better battery though. It's a 13 Ah battery and the Fighter has a 10 Ah and the HPC uses Prismatic Pouch Cells which are superior to the LiFePO4 that Stealth uses.

Wrong again, the fighter has an 18ah battery last I checked and a cell being prismatic vs cylindrical nothing to do with superiority. There are shitty and excellent examples of both.

I'm sure you'll be happy with what ever you buy as none of them are terrible options, as above I don't care and can see you've made up your mind, I'm just pointing out the wrong info so others aren't misled. I've got nothing against HPC but you've clearly drunk their marketing koolaid and don't have all the facts (or are completely misinterpreting or misquoting them)

 

[00Tj]

Um, yes you can. It's called a crystalyte HS4080 and costs about $400. I just sold a whole bike with that motor, controller with regen for $1200AUD to someone here.

Talk to Hyena. As he said, he can sell you a better kit for $2500. Also, you can buy a kickass downhill bike for under $2k.. A specialised enduro for example?

Again, THE FIGHTER USED A 2 SPEED SCHLUMPH DRIVE AND HAS THE EXACT SAME MOTOR/CONTROLLER!

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Ottodog, you just did it again...go ahead, keep demonstrating your inability to read or interpret basic specs...it's what the marketers rely on.
Your like a marketers wet dream. :lol:

Almost everyone here is telling you not to get that HPC...why on earth would you persist?

Seriously though, if you do end up getting it, write up a review on how you find it...I would be interested to see if it lives up to your expectations.

Cheers

 

[00Tj]

Ottodog, you just did it again...go ahead, keep demonstrating your inability to read or interpret basic specs...it's what the marketers rely on.
Your like a marketers wet dream. :lol:

Almost everyone here is telling you not to get that HPC...why on earth would you persist?

Seriously though, if you do end up getting it, write up a review on how you find it...I would be interested to see if it lives up to your expectations.

Cheers

Oh cowardlyduck,

Don't you know? It's because all of us are just trying to justify buying our crappy $7900/9900 bikes! It has nothing to do with the fact that most of us have been doing this for years, have had numerous other bikes and/or work in the industry!

 

[Ottodog]

Ottodog, you just did it again...go ahead, keep demonstrating your inability to read or interpret basic specs...it's what the marketers rely on.
Your like a marketers wet dream. :lol:

Almost everyone here is telling you not to get that HPC...why on earth would you persist?

Seriously though, if you do end up getting it, write up a review on how you find it...I would be interested to see if it lives up to your expectations.

Cheers

Excuse me if I don't take what you say with a grain of salt. I think you might be just a tiny bit biased... :lol:

I've already politely corrected you multiple times and even cut and pasted the specs for the Stealth from your own links. And no, you CAN'T get this motor off the shelf OR in any kit anywhere. You could also learn to show a little more respect to those who are trying to have a civil discourse with you. Its a discussion thread after all. I've been nothing but respectful, how about you do the same? Getting snarky and insecure diminishes you and I have a hard time respecting that.

As I said, this wasn't for YOU, it was for anyone else like me that is researching this type of high speed, high performance e-bike. I think it's good to have all the info out there and people can make their own decisions. Trying to force feed your choice down people's throats is only going to turn people OFF to the product. Not sell more of them.

 

[00Tj]

And lastly..

The HS4080 has a 40mm stator from the factory! Hence the 40 in the 4080! Lol.. 40=40mm stator. 80=80km/h @72v.

 

[Ottodog]

And lastly..

The HS4080 has a 40mm stator from the factory! Hence the 40 in the 4080! Lol.. 40=40mm stator. 80=80km/h @72v.

And I'll say again for the umpteenth time, the HPC motor is specifically wound for HPC for 90V operation and it's NOT the same motor as the 4080.

 

[00Tj]

Well i used mine at 100.8V? Don't believe the marketing hype!

Also, a quick question for you?

What is the difference between the wind on a regular 4080 and theirs? How many winds is theirs?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Ottodog, I give up...your a lost cause. You can go ahead and try and discredit me and the fact's we are all stating to you, but if you still choose to ignore us, there is no point.
You'll just have to find out the hard way.
Alternatively, you could spend some time reading around Endless-sphere...there is a wealth of knowledge here if you just look.

Oh cowardlyduck,

Don't you know? It's because all of us are just trying to justify buying our crappy $7900/9900 bikes! It has nothing to do with the fact that most of us have been doing this for years, have had numerous other bikes and/or work in the industry!

Well in my case my Fighter was only $6500 AUD (so about $5000 US) as I bought it before the prices went up in 2012. So I'm dreamin. 8)

Cheers

 

[Ottodog]

Alternatively, you could spend some time reading around Endless-sphere...there is a wealth of knowledge here if you just look.

I have. Some great bikes here and some great people too. Not necessarily in this thread... but overall a pretty cool site. :wink:

 

[Hyena]

Ahhhh, I can't keep up!
Dude you're so far off!!

The 5000W motor is wound specifically for 90V operation and features a 40mm stator/magnet stack and is air cooled with temperature sensors. Standard for all motors are 150A continuous gold plated phase connectors and a 100A rated gold plated battery and controller connections.

Do you know what all that actually means ? It's marketing blurb and little else. If they quoted the strand count of the wiring they use in the phase wires and the type of insulation you'd probably think that was awesome too :lol:

As far as researching my facts, I think I've shown here that I have. It's unfortunately a fact of the Internet that some of you seem to be blinded by your love for your bike and the $10k you shelled out to get them.

Again, it's you who has seemingly gotten your information from one source and are blind to all other discussion!

In reality, the HPC 5000 watt bike will absolutely destroy a Stealth Fighter. It's got a 40mm stator/magnet stack and has way more power.

They're the SAME F*&KING motor!
I suspect you don't even know what a 40mm stator means.
As for the performance, watch the first few seconds of this video of mine from an EV race last year.
The yellow stealth fighter and my bike (the white one that races ahead at the start) are both using the same motor with this mystical 40mm stator that HPC are also using. Are you may be able to detect there's a bit of difference in performance and it's not from the 150A gold plated connectors or any other the other marketing stuff you've swallowed from HPC :lol:

[youtube]W9QDUEchOu8[/youtube]

I think it's good for people to have all the information they need to make an educated choice

Take your own advice my friend!

The Schlumpf drive IS superior. It basically allows you to pedal at speeds up to 50 mph + and eliminates the need for a derailleur!

Good luck running that HPC mtb bike you're set on without a derailleur. If the chain doesn't snap when you sit down it will on the first bump.

As far as building my own for $5k? No way. Show me a kit that has 5000 watts, an 18 Fet controller, and regenerative braking... There is not one.

Um, did you read my post earlier ? I was trying to not sound like I was angling for a sale but that is exactly what my kits are.

I spoke to the owner at HPC and the 5000 watt motor is specially made just for them by Crystallite with a larger (40mm) stator and magnet stack. There IS no standard Crystallite motor with these specs.

Actually I had the first batch of these motors, then after testing specified to crystalyte the above changes which you're now tossing on about.
This was back in 2011 or 2012. I also asked for stronger, bigger axles which they still haven't done but have since come out with the upgraded crown motor instead. As for your ZOMG EXCLUSIVELY DESIGNED FOR HPC argument - anyone who knows what they're talking about and buying in sufficient quantities can have gear manufactured to their spec and requirements. It's ALL one persons marketing that you're spouting.
For someone who claims to do research as part of their job description you're doing a terrible job at exploring all sources and verifying facts!

 

[Ottodog]

Ahhhh, I can't keep up!
Dude you're so far off!!

Love the Raptor! But again, not what I'm looking for. As I said before, I've done a lot of research at this site since I joined, and many others too. I'm kind of a research freak. I guess it comes with my job description.

I am a huge fan of Electric Motors and have been since the early days. I've always believed they were the future and it's gratifying that the rest of the World is finally beginning to catch on. I even built an Electric Car out of my wife's old Sentra a few years ago with a friend of mine. But that was a long time ago, and now I drive a Tesla because I'd never have the energy to build another one. Truth is, I'm probably old enough to be a lot of you's father or grandpa and am probably far outside the demographic of this thread.

Either way, no hard feelings I hope. I love this stuff and I love to talk about it. If I ruffled some feathers, I apologize. Still not completely sure what I'm going to do, but I appreciate hearing your opinions.

 

[00Tj]

There are no ruffled feather's. Just people banging their head's against wall's because you're not listening!!

Again, what is the difference in wind's between a regular 4080 and HPC's?

 

[Hyena]

Okay then. We'll just have to agree to disagree

LOL. We tried. I'm out.

Truth is, I'm probably old enough to be a lot of you's father or grandpa

Ah, there's the issue. You can't teach an old ottodog new tricks. :lol:

 

[Ottodog]

There are no ruffled feather's. Just people banging their head's against wall's because you're not listening!!

Again, what is the difference in wind's between a regular 4080 and HPC's?

Lol. That's because all you are offering is blind fanaticism without listening to my needs and the type of riding I will be doing. I think I made it clear that a Bomber or Fighter is NOT THE FORM FACTOR I AM LOOKING FOR... You guys gave it your best shot. Stealth should be paying you a commission. 8)

I think it's great you guys rally around the companies you like. HPC is good company too. Take some time to look at some of the stuff they are doing besides the kit builds. Maybe you can ask Chris about the motor winds while you're at it. Their new purpose built e-bike the "Revolution" is really cool and is along the same lines as the Raptor and the Bomber. I'd love to see them do well and it sounds like they are. They have numerous good reviews which you can see on their site as well.

HPC Revolution - Real Carbon fiber; No stickers

 

[00Tj]

I don't have to ask them because i already know. I was asking you and gauging from your answer you don't know! Which is my point!!

Yes, the revolution is absolutely fantastic, No one is disputing that. But that isn't what your talking about buying..?

If you were this discussion would have been over a while ago..

 

[remf]

HPC :lol: Revolution or whatever bag bike, I wish you luck.

 

[Ottodog]

Yes, the revolution is absolutely fantastic, No one is disputing that. But that isn't what your talking about buying..?

If you were this discussion would have been over a while ago..

Really? Well that's good to hear, and that actually makes me feel a lot better. If you respect their Motors and Components then your position makes more sense to me. I was getting confused... I thought you must be dissing my choice simply because it wasn't a Stealth product. Bottom line is, I just really didn't want something that draws that much attention to be perfectly honest. I'm 56 years old and I think I'd feel kind of silly riding around on something that futuristic looking...

I mean, just look at the thing! It's gotta draw a crowd and surely you guys have to answer questions about the bomber everywhere you go no? Let me guess... "How much did THAT cost???" Lol. I guess I prefer to blend in a little more. We also have a lot of bored cops around here with nothing better to do than hassle cyclists, so I'd like get something a little less flashy. If I get pulled over on the XC it would pretty easy to defend it as simply a bike with a kit.The Stealth? No way, and I wouldn't be surprised if the Cops around here already know exactly what they are and how fast they can go. It sounds like your big problem with my choice is the Frame is not purpose built. I can certainly understand that, but honestly for me needs, the Frame on the XC should be plenty strong. It's reinforced in specific areas and it has double Torque braces. The company has been around for years and they can't make bikes fast enough to keep up with demand. I'm confident they make a solid and safe product.

HPC :lol: Revolution or whatever bag bike, I wish you luck.

Thanks Mate.

 

[madin88]

HPC, is this the company who give motors a different name and than sell them for twice the price to people who think if its more expensive it must be better :lol:

the new revolution frame looks good, but for the price they should be ashamed..

 

[Allex]

And regarding the HPC motors, you can do some reading here
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61183&p=1027826#p1028064

I suggest that you read a bit more on this forum. if you want to have something more bicycle looking, taka a look at what Samd is doing on the regular DH frames. His work is fantastic

And to summarize, if you can build a bag bike with your hands and I think you can, you should probably do it, hell Ask Hyena or Samd to build you a bike, that will be better than HPC and Stealth in some areas, like some one pointed out, you will not find a perfect bike out there.
Stop comparing the components, because you can have better performance for less money.
40mm stator? You can go and buy 45 or even 50mm motors.
Crystalyte controllers at 5000w? You can buy 12000W controllers that has so much functions that it will blow your mind compared to 8 years old Chinese Crystalyte controllers. Or you can ask someone to modify That old dog to push 8-10000W

Again it is not the motor that defines power it is the controller when it comes to EV. So saying that a bike have a 5000W is wrong, it is the controller that makes it deliver those 5000W

Then:

The Schlumpf drive IS superior. It basically allows you to pedal at speeds up to 50 mph + and eliminates the need for a derailleur! You just kick it with your heel and BAM! THAT is a significant improvement over any standard chainring. It's also MUCH lighter weight than that 9 gear "gearbox" they use on the Bomber which requires a twist shifter on the handles bars.

What the hell? That bag bike you showed has a derailleur! Ok, you could remove it, but did you think of why they use a derailleur? Could it be that they though that the 2 gears Schlumpf provides is not enough? I dont know if you really can pedal along at 50mph with Schlumpf but you sure can with the 9speed vboxx the Bomber have, but yeah it is heavy but having it means no derailleurs - all the gears are internal.

All in all I think you will love the HPC bag bike. because it will feel very powerfull compared to you regular old bike, you will have that stupid grin on your face And we all know that your bike(or any other gadget we buy) will always be the best one until you try something else.

 

[Ottodog]

All in all I think you will love the HPC bag bike. because it will feel very powerfull compared to you regular old bike, you will have that stupid grin on your face And we all know that your bike(or any other gadget we buy) will always be the best one until you try something else... TL;DR

This whole long discussion is about the frame. Apparently people would prefer I use a Bomber or Revolution style frame. Kind of silly when you look at it that way isn't it? Everyone hug your loved one and be grateful we can all afford such ultra cool toys. I'm excited to join the ultra high power crowd and I will not rest until I can do a proper power wheelie.

 

[madin88]

I dont know if you really can pedal along at 50mph with Schlumpf but you sure can with the 9speed vboxx the Bomber have, but yeah it is heavy but having it means no derailleurs - all the gears are internal.

with the high speed drive with its 2,6:1 reduction you sure can pedal up to 50 or more but for what? if you wanna do workout then ok but to extend range at those speeds you better go in a aerodynamic position instead of pedalling :lol:

 

[Jimboyr6]

Quick question about the stealth. I just bought a new 2014 Stealth bomber from a dealer in my hometown. After my first ride Ive came to the conclusion that if I use the throttle for the majority of the ride, I will only average 38 Kms/ 23.75 miles per charge. This is terrible in my opinion and doesn't give me the flexibility I thought I had. Will this get better with time ? Could this be due to the fact that it has been sitting around on the shop floor for a year doing nothing ?

Probably and hopefully, yes.

I have a 2014 Fighter. The displays says I get close to 950 Wh from one battery charge. Distance will vary. I never look at it. But the maximum Wh is very consistent. Earlier this year there was a period where I could not ride the bike for 5 weeks, and when I got back on it I noticed a lot of power loss. At first I thought I'd damaged my hub motor because I had it apart. But with more use the power came back! It took about 3 or 4 full power cycles before it started to feel normal.

Voltage was always fine. 58 to 59V charged, and even when taken out of storage the battery volts was still around 56V. I suspect that after a period of storage the battery cannot pump out the same peak amps.

I'm storing the bike at present for a 3 week block. This time I left the battery with about 70% charge. I'll top it up before my next ride, and see how the power feels.

If riding regularly I try to avoid running it totally flat, and fully charge it when back home. So I monitor the Wh and try to avoid going past 900. I give it some time to cool before charging, but I'm not sure it's that's best of if I should charge it immediately.

If I run it totally flat, sometimes it wont going into charge mode unless I do a BMS reset (disconnect the main power plug). No idea why. I guess maybe the heat in the battery after a ride with high load.

If u have one low cell in ur pack that drops off the cliff when u get near the end of ur ride then bms will shut down to protect that cel going to low,
Also it my have a temp sensor on it but my bombers old BMS dident
Charge it u every now and then so the bms can pick up and balance any cells which are going down low
But from experience when the cells get big differences the bms cant bring them back
Thats y stealth say charge once a month, bms draws small amount v from pack all time

 

[QuietRush]

As for the performance, watch the first few seconds of this video of mine from an EV race last year.
The yellow stealth fighter and my bike (the white one that races ahead at the start) are both using the same motor with this mystical 40mm stator that HPC are also using. Are you may be able to detect there's a bit of difference in performance and it's not from the 150A gold plated connectors or any other the other marketing stuff you've swallowed from HPC :lol:

[youtube]W9QDUEchOu8[/youtube]

Ahem. Who finished the race and won Hyena? Hmm? Let me refresh the audiences memory: http://www.mylaps.com/en/classification/3221472 Whilst I know it might be the only year I pull it off, I'm still happy polishing my trophy.

I go away busy for a little while and you guys have all wound up the snark dial. Sheesh.

As much as the HPC Revolution looks like an interesting frame build, it still sits in the hobbyist league for a few factors for me, but the competition is clearly hotting up. Whilst I deal in Stealths for a range of factors, I always have my eye open on what's next (and yes, I do like your Raptor builds Hyena. A lot.) Stealth use 24" rims for a good reason, which will become evident to HPC owners after a few hefty offroad sessions. Similar reasons that some of the owners here moved to 19" or 17". I'll be interested to see how HPC go with dealing with RockShox for warranty claim as a manufacturer when they explain how the products are being used. Love that swingarm build though, reminds me of Orange Bikes.

The Schlumpf is a very nice way of shifting and whilst I love the simplicity of a 2 speed, there are occasions when I find myself hunting for a lower gear that I know exists in the VBoxx of the Bomber, but I'm not about to go fitting a derailleur to get it, nor go chasing smaller diameter front rings - it's overall a good compromise set of gearing. My 1st Fighter #21 came stock with higher gearing than current builds, which Stealth modified over time. The amount of pedal effort you're going to be contributing at 50+ is negligible from a performance perspective, though great for working thighs and building leg-speed at speed.

Each to their own.

I took my Fighter to the Transmoto12hr at Batemans Bay recently where I was exhibiting my gear amongst some of Australias fastest OffRoad riders, met a few guys there who already owned a Stealth or two, which I thought was a nice testimonial. One team owned 6 of them! I'm not going to say who...

In case you're interested, here's a video of the event done by Adam Riemann from http://www.motology.com.au/ (seriously good film production from this guy in his other films, such as MotoNomad). It was a fun day, some serious riding skills on display. Gave me a good chance to have a chat with the Race Marshalls and Chief Steward from MNSW about race regs and logistics, especially when they twigged that I'd been the guy asking if we could put a Stealth on the track (short answer=No, due to MNSW race regulations). Got some good tips on coming up with our own race series though..
[youtube]yh2mGS4xOJA[/youtube]

 

[bigbore]

For one, I'm gonna be using this on and off road. The Bomber looks more like a motorcycle than it does a bike and I worry about the Cops giving me a hard time.

For that same reason I have installed a PAS on my Bomber and I'm going to use it on road in ECO mode (Adappto controller) that limits the top speed at 27Km/h. Also I'm thinking about a sticker saying 250W on the motor. What do you think about such a sticker?