Compare HPC to Stealth

[Theodore Voltaire]

I question this.

Do a YouTube search of Stealth eBikes, and you find hundreds of videos made by actual owners. It's hard to find a Stealth owner that doesn't love his bike, or the brand.

Do the same YouTube search on HPC, and 99% of the videos are all by HPC. Every time I see HPC being promoted, when I look who's doing it, it's always HPC themselves. Where are all their loyal owners? Since they've been in business for so long, there should be many of them. They do seem to get quite a few complaints from people that had dealings with them though, and they're not nice. Where are their owner videos?


If HPC has been around so long, and makes such well made eBikes, why are there so few owner videos?

 

[Jimboyr6]

frock a duck tv ur right no owner vids on youtube the all the makers vids
shame on them ,cos thay aint worth filming

 

[Rix]

Also, as cowardlyduck has said, the hpc bike and the figher have the exact same motor! The increased power is just them jamming more voltage through it! Hey, if you put a 100v system on the Fighter and push 80amps through it you'll get 8000w out of it! Don't get confused by the numbers.
1kwh does not equal 10Ah. I think you are also getting that confused.

26vs24 inch wheels? Really? Most people here put 17 inch wheels on so does that mean they are really really bad? No, it doesn't.
Again, don't listen to the hpc guys marketing spin.
Have you ever wondered why they don't have a presence on the number one electric vehicle forum?

You are also very wrong in thinking everyone here is stealth biased. Most of the people that have weighed into this discussion own/make other bikes. Hyena for example is the main importer for Raptor frames yet he is still telling you to get a stealth over that hpc.
I bet you own beats headphones and have an iphone as well? Lol.

Wrong again. They are not the same motor. Cowardlyduck just kind of pulled that out of his ass, lol. I spoke to the owner at HPC and the 5000 watt motor is specially made just for them by Crystallite with a larger (40mm) stator and magnet stack. There IS no standard Crystallite motor with these specs. Period. HPC also ran each of the prototype motors at full power for THREE MONTHS and these bad boys are absolutely bullet proof. Not a single one has come back defective since they began using them. Reliable as hell, just like the Stealth.

The 5000W motor is wound specifically for 90V operation and features a 40mm stator/magnet stack and is air cooled with temperature sensors. Standard for all motors are 150A continuous gold plated phase connectors and a 100A rated gold plated battery and controller connections.

[text deleted by moderator]. Everyone that has responded to your comments over the last couple of pages is correct with their comments and information, where as you don't what the hell your are talking about. The motors are the same for the HPC in the pic and Fighter, they are Crystalytes H40 series. You can buy them from several vendors, Ebikessf and Electricrider come to mind for US customers. I don't mind the fact that you want to buy a HPC instead of a Stealth, that's your right and freedom. [text deleted by moderator]

 

[bigbore]

This morning I had the second flat on the front tyre in one week. In the trails near my home there are brambles, I try to avoid them as much as I can but sometime I pass over them. So a colleague of mine doing downhill suggested this product that I bought:
http://www.amazon.it/dp/B007D1QRME/ref=pe_386201_51767741_TE_dp_1

Anybody tried it or have experience with similar products?

 

[Ottodog]

Also, as cowardlyduck has said, the hpc bike and the figher have the exact same motor! The increased power is just them jamming more voltage through it! Hey, if you put a 100v system on the Fighter and push 80amps through it you'll get 8000w out of it! Don't get confused by the numbers.
1kwh does not equal 10Ah. I think you are also getting that confused.

26vs24 inch wheels? Really? Most people here put 17 inch wheels on so does that mean they are really really bad? No, it doesn't.
Again, don't listen to the hpc guys marketing spin.
Have you ever wondered why they don't have a presence on the number one electric vehicle forum?

You are also very wrong in thinking everyone here is stealth biased. Most of the people that have weighed into this discussion own/make other bikes. Hyena for example is the main importer for Raptor frames yet he is still telling you to get a stealth over that hpc.
I bet you own beats headphones and have an iphone as well? Lol.

Wrong again. They are not the same motor. Cowardlyduck just kind of pulled that out of his ass, lol. I spoke to the owner at HPC and the 5000 watt motor is specially made just for them by Crystallite with a larger (40mm) stator and magnet stack. There IS no standard Crystallite motor with these specs. Period. HPC also ran each of the prototype motors at full power for THREE MONTHS and these bad boys are absolutely bullet proof. Not a single one has come back defective since they began using them. Reliable as hell, just like the Stealth.

The 5000W motor is wound specifically for 90V operation and features a 40mm stator/magnet stack and is air cooled with temperature sensors. Standard for all motors are 150A continuous gold plated phase connectors and a 100A rated gold plated battery and controller connections.

[text deleted by moderator] Everyone that has responded to your comments over the last couple of pages is correct with their comments and information, where as you don't what the hell your are talking about. The motors are the same for the HPC in the pic and Fighter, they are Crystalytes H40 series. You can buy them from several vendors, Ebikessf and Electricrider come to mind for US customers. I don't mind the fact that you want to buy a HPC instead of a Stealth, that's your right and freedom. [text deleted by moderator]

[text deleted by moderator] If they are using the "same" motor and basically the same components, then the only difference between them would be the frame. I don't like the frame. I think it looks too much like a motorbike. It's cop bait. WTF is so hard for you to get about that?

Can you get it through your thick head that not everybody Needs a 120 pound GIANT ASS FRAME? When I rode the Stealth I had to splay my damn legs just to keep from banging my knees on the "Tank". It's too fuqin' heavy! I can build a lighter faster version from HPC for a lot less money. I also prefer to buy from a local small business here in the USA. So shoot me.

Ive tried to be polite and informative. Your insecurities and rudeness have no place here, and people like you only diminish your brand. The honest truth is, I can afford any e-bike I want and I'm happy with my choice. Sorry if that makes you mad. [text deleted by moderator]

 

[spinningmagnets]

This part of the discussion has clearly aroused passionate feelings about cost/performance between these two brands. For anyone who wants to read more discussion, you can post here, or...consider these threads too:

"50 Mph, 5000 Watt, HPC XC-2 w/ Schlumpf Drive"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68611

"NEW HPC REVOLUTION DH E-BIKE!"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53943

 

[00Tj]

Oh well if price is really no option, I expect to see photos of your Blacktrail or your M55 soon then?

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

Everyone wants to build a bike better than a Stealth. What's that tell you?

 

[skWarDog]

Wrong again. They are not the same motor. Cowardlyduck just kind of pulled that out of his ass, lol. I spoke to the owner at HPC and the 5000 watt motor is specially made just for them by Crystallite with a larger (40mm) stator and magnet stack. There IS no standard Crystallite motor with these specs. Period. HPC also ran each of the prototype motors at full power for THREE MONTHS and these bad boys are absolutely bullet proof. Not a single one has come back defective since they began using them. Reliable as hell, just like the Stealth.

Eh-Hem!........Ummmmm, At least one has!
I will say no more than this..... As the moderators deleted my thread "DING_DING" here on ES cus I wanted the ES community to have this information and threatened to Ban me from Endless-Sphere.com because I complained to to them about censorship! This is well documented in the Adaptto Owners Thread starting on pg 56. Here is where I tried to create a new thread, that was deleted, so as not to spoil the content or the great reputation of the Adaptto Boys:

And Dude, your stinking up this very useful and crowded thread....... If you have something else to say, have respect and step outside here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68235

Also, Chris at HPC did reach out too me after he realized I took the motor apart and found the problem several times...... contributing to the matter was his slightly arrogant attitude lit my fuse, I have been told by...... well shit, by just about everybody, that I can be extremely hot-headed sometimes..... all I can say in my defense is, in life, you can not choose who your real Daddy is, and mine was one mean Russian MOFO!
Eventually, I calmed down and considered his offer.... I'm good with it and the matter is settled. I have absolutely no hard feelings with Chris or HPC, as a matter of fact, the reason I approached them in the first place, was because I liked their products and commitment to performance..... and like in my hood, it's tradition after a good barfight that the loser buys drinks at the bar and it's done.....get over it!

SDog

 

[skWarDog]

Ottodog, like I said in your other thread, just enjoy your bike..... It is a really nice bike!! Time is money, and if you make more money doing something else, it's most definitely worth buying a ready made bike instead of figuring out how to build one and end up with one half as good or a nice pile of scrap iron....... That's definitely not a Wallymart bike, good frame and fine components../..... I think you made a good decision!

 

[Ottodog]

Ottodog, like I said in your other thread, just enjoy your bike..... It is a really nice bike!! Time is money, and if you make more money doing something else, it's most definitely worth buying a ready made bike instead of figuring out how to build one and end up with one half as good or a nice pile of scrap iron....... That's definitely not a Wallymart bike, good frame and fine components../..... I think you made a good decision!

Thanks. I do have another e-bike that I built from a kit and it took quite a bit of fiddling around with it to get the TS to work right and the software dialed in. This time around I just wanted to get something that I could get on and RIDE. I don't want to waste any more of this beautiful riding weather sweating out in the Garage and messing around sourcing all the parts I need. I didn't even have a donor bike. These guys had everything I needed in one place and it's all top notch stuff. Sure it costs more, but I have no problem shooting some business over to HPC since they're doing all the work. They gave me exactly what I wanted (and more) and I'm happy with my decision. It's definitely been worth it for me.

 

[hi-powercycles]

If someone has a 3540 or 4080 motor, we invite you to please bring your bike down to the shop. We will strap it to our dynojet and do back to back runs with our motors. You will understand why our motors come with a premium price. We will do some back to back drag races as well. We are currently on our 4th revision of magnetics over the stock c-lytes we used to run 3-4 years ago.

Happily for all, we will launch our own designed from the ground up motors as well! We have a high powered geared motor that we have just started the engineering on. We have a bunch of brand new bikes designed, built and manufactured in the US that we are putting final touches on as well beside the Revolution! We will announce them soon but only when they are close to launch so we don't have the same issue as the Revolution and announce a bike way before it is ready for production.

We have our production techniques down, and a young, talented and enthusiastic engineering team. We hope our competitors keep us on our toes so we can continue to innovate so that the consumer can have a product that is more exciting.

Being an avid powersports enthusiast myself, I love what Yamaha does as a company in terms of fit and finish and reliability, but the excitement dies down when a product continuous on year by year unchanged- especially true with many of their ATV's. On the other hand, Polaris continuously out does itself year by year with their ATV's and Side by Sides, keeps things fresh, and strives to be on top of the power pyramid. We will strive to deliver the best of both- reliability, fit and finish, clever frame design, and an undying commitment to bringing fresh ideas and excitement into this industry. We are so excited about the future of not only our own company, but the future of ebikes as a whole!

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

If we're going to compare HPC to Stealth the first thing needing mention is it seems obvious that HPC is so jealous of Stealth they can't stand it, whereas Stealth doesn't seem to consider them as even as much as a pimple on an elephants butt.

HPC seems so be fixated on claiming their bikes are faster than Stealth's, but as an experienced rider I can tell you making a fast bike is easy. Making a fast bike that won't get you killed is not. Stealth totally grasps this concept, but from what I've seen, HPC not so much.

 

[skWarDog]

If we're going to compare HPC to Stealth the first thing needing mention is it seems obvious that HPC is so jealous of Stealth they can't stand it, whereas Stealth doesn't seem to consider them as even as much as a pimple on an elephants butt.

HPC seems so be fixated on claiming their bikes are faster than Stealth's, but as an experienced rider I can tell you making a fast bike is easy. Making a fast bike that won't get you killed is not. Stealth totally grasps this concept, but from what I've seen, HPC not so much.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.... TED ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... TEDDY .......... HAHAHAHAHAHA.......... TED, no ........ HAHAHAHA ........ TED, nobody's jelly of Slealth, it's a........ HAHAHAHA>>>>> this has got to be the funniest post of the week....... HAHAHAHAHA....... You're killing me, Teddy!././......... HaHa......... Where in Lipatornation did you cats find this guy? ........ This is the funniest thing I heard since the "Fat Girls And Moped Joke" 30 years ago!! .......You are telling a joke, right Ted? Cus I don't mean to laugh if you aren't, but............HAHAHAHAHAHAHA >>>>> WWuuhhhhhhoooooo, Purple Haze Daze!

Sorry Stealth owners, I didn't mean to laugh so hard, and I'm definitely not laughing at your bikes, man! Seeing a picture of a Stealth is what made me take up this hobby 6-8 month's ago, I only know 1 other person in my area with an e-bike too... and that's because he's serving a DUI suspension. He'll prolly go back to the standard "NJ, I can drive my Hummer with my Horn, Carbon Consumption Diet" once time served! You know definitely if you been here last couple weeks, I'm no shill for HPC either, get that straight.

Alright Ted, for you...... A Stealth might have been King of the E-Bike Trail back in the day, IDK, I was kinda busy on my 300EXC battling Lafferty Boys in this series, http://ecea.org/ecea/?cat=37, and prolly losing (bastards), as I still am... Greenbriar in MD tomorrow! But it is what it is..... A square metal shipping box that someone attached a seat, headset, BB and single-link suspension to and had a lot of fun with it, made money too! whoohoo! But I highly doubt that anyone takes it as a serious contender in this class of vehicle any longer.... it's day has long passed! Don't mean it's not fun anymore either, still a GREAT toy to get your Ya-Ya's out on, but upper mid-level racer at best!
Look at almost any race series in the world and tell me 1 that uses a square-tube or box chassis? This is because: 1) all metal flexes. 2) square tubes can flex up-down, left-right. 3) round tubes can flex 360 degrees, with strutting techniques you can force it to flex back to center 4) Flexing left-right = BAD (unpredictable handling, bounces all over bumpy's, hard spot in center of corner) 5) Return to center = GOOD (done right, you might think your a figure skater gliding on ice) .....Racing Chassis 101!

 

[Theodore Voltaire]

If we're going to compare HPC to Stealth the first thing needing mention is it seems obvious that HPC is so jealous of Stealth they can't stand it, whereas Stealth doesn't seem to consider them as even as much as a pimple on an elephants butt.

HPC seems so be fixated on claiming their bikes are faster than Stealth's, but as an experienced rider I can tell you making a fast bike is easy. Making a fast bike that won't get you killed is not. Stealth totally grasps this concept, but from what I've seen, HPC not so much.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.... TED ... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....... TEDDY .......... HAHAHAHAHAHA.......... TED, no ........ HAHAHAHA ........ TED, nobody's jelly of Slealth, it's a........ HAHAHAHA>>>>> this has got to be the funniest post of the week....... HAHAHAHAHA....... You're killing me, Teddy!././......... HaHa......... Where in Lipatornation did you cats find this guy? ........ This is the funniest thing I heard since the "Fat Girls And Moped Joke" 30 years ago!! .......You are telling a joke, right Ted? Cus I don't mean to laugh if you aren't, but............HAHAHAHAHAHAHA >>>>> WWuuhhhhhhoooooo, Purple Haze Daze!

Sorry Stealth owners, I didn't mean to laugh so hard, and I'm definitely not laughing at your bikes, man! Seeing a picture of a Stealth is what made me take up this hobby 6-8 month's ago, I only know 1 other person in my area with an e-bike too... and that's because he's serving a DUI suspension. He'll prolly go back to the standard "NJ, I can drive my Hummer with my Horn, Carbon Consumption Diet" once time served! You know definitely if you been here last couple weeks, I'm no shill for HPC either, get that straight.

Alright Ted, for you...... A Stealth might have been King of the E-Bike Trail back in the day, IDK, I was kinda busy on my 300EXC battling Lafferty Boys in this series, http://ecea.org/ecea/?cat=37, and prolly losing (bastards), as I still am... Greenbriar in MD tomorrow! But it is what it is..... A square metal shipping box that someone attached a seat, headset, BB and single-link suspension to and had a lot of fun with it, made money too! whoohoo! But I highly doubt that anyone takes it as a serious contender in this class of vehicle any longer.... it's day has long passed! Don't mean it's not fun anymore either, still a GREAT toy to get your Ya-Ya's out on, but upper mid-level racer at best!
Look at almost any race series in the world and tell me 1 that uses a square-tube or box chassis? This is because: 1) all metal flexes. 2) square tubes can flex up-down, left-right. 3) round tubes can flex 360 degrees, with strutting techniques you can force it to flex back to center 4) Flexing left-right = BAD (unpredictable handling, bounces all over bumpy's, hard spot in center of corner) 5) Return to center = GOOD (done right, you might think your a figure skater gliding on ice) .....Racing Chassis 101!

I'm trying hard to decipher what you're talking about, but it sounds a lot like you don't even know. I'm guessing you're trying to say a Stealth's welded up monocoque frame isn't a good strong design LOL. Good luck with that. The fact is it's light weight, strong, and very well applied to an electric bike.

 

[skWarDog]

And the Stealth Boyz Rock! Hardcore, slick ideas and if you ride a bone rattling machine like that all day and come back grinning in your face.....well hell, you tougher then me........... Peace Out

 

[macribs]

Ottodog, I got to arrest you on one argument. You claim Stealth will be to heavy for your teenage girl. Well I disagree. There are plenty of teenage girls driving those off road type mopeds, especially in rural areas and those mopeds are often twice as heavy as the Stealth. Even short girls manage to ride those mopeds on roads as well as off road. So I am certain your daughter will handle the Stealth just fine at least it will not biol down to the weight of the bike.

Yeah and regarding the stealthiness of high powered e-bikes. Well a bag that fills the entire triangle with large hubmotor and a visible controller does not stealth looking make. Not for coppers anyway. You might trick you next door old lady but not coppers. When they catch you going 35 mph + on any bike they know something is up.

Btw, did you know bomber has a slimmer brother? It is called fighter. I think it weigh in about the same as the HPC. And it is also cheaper then the bomber.

For the money you are about to sink into your e-bike dream you could be riding an insane 10+ kw bike. Even with a special carbon fiber frame - Real carbon fiber frame - no stickers and no carbon lids. Get a 2K NYX carbon frame and you still have 6K left for all other parts. I guaranty you will smoke the HPC in every possible event. And it will not be much heavier either.

8.000 $ is a heck of a deal - for HPC.

 

[Rix]

Here is my take, if the end user wants a XC MTB with an electric motor, where light weight is more important than durability and offroad toughness isnt the main priority, the HPC option could be the way to go. If the end user wants a purpose built super durable production machine where offroad reliability and handling is the primary concern, the best option is Stealth. We can put the rest to bed. If Stealth wanted to, they could build a really lightweight ebike with XC MTB components, single crown fork, shrink their battery capacity down to 13ah, and have a machine that weighs in the 55-60 pound range. But thus far, Stealth hasn't went that route, and HPC has, so we got options folks. If you look at how far DIY frames and manufactured Ebikes that can be pedaled have come in the last 5 years, its been more progressive than the previous 30 years.

 

[Ottodog]

I think the Stealth and Revolution "Monocoque" design frames look wicked and are obviously built for extreme high strength. I did quite a bit of shopping around for Donor bikes and even rode a few before I started this project and I never did see that style of frame being used on any of the high end Mtn. Bikes I tested. I'm sure they are out there, but I never saw one. They all used the tubular framed MTB frame geometry that has been around for years.

Personally, I think if you don't need the extreme strength of the Monocoque design, using a really good frame geometry that fits your body first and then adding the electrical drive has some advantages. Assuming of course the frame you choose is strong enough for the purpose intended. From all I've read, the HPC frames are not just a regular MTB frame. They are specially reinforced and designed for extreme high power use for them by KHS. The latest frame they are using came out last year and it's significantly beefier than even the year before. I personally love KHS Mtn. Bikes. I think they have some of the nicest handling around and they get very good reviews. I've scoured the web and I've not seen any reports of HPC frames breaking or falling apart at high speed, etc. I really don't think there's much concern there.

So in the end, it's all about getting the tool that fits the job. A little competition is good for consumers and it's good to have choices. A bike like this might pull in another e-bike owner where the other one might not. Not everyone will buy a Stealth, not everyone will buy an HPC, and not everyone will DIY. The important thing is that a lot of people are doing this and there are more and more choices to get more and more people interested.

Had it not been for the Storm bike (which everyone seems to hate) I would never have known e-bikes exist. Now I ride one every day to work and I can leave my car at home for many small trips that I used to drive. It's all good. Threads like this are healthy for the e-bike movement and the environment. It's probably important to realize that we are all on the same team and the same course. We are the initiators. The early adopters. It's people like us that take the risks and move the needle. We should be proud to be brothers in the same fight, not arguing about which e-bike is "best", because there is no "best". There's only what's best for you.