D-Man said:
What are the differences between an e-bike and e-scooter performance wise? <SNIP>Also, are there benefits of having a scooter that e-bikers are not aware of?
Hey D-Man...
My first post here.
I've been riding Currie-built kick scoots w/PA for the last six years or so.
Well over 10K km of urban commutes and travels now.
I drove cars for many years. Rode the Victorian pedal bike thousands of kms too. You know, that vehicle which you jam in your crotch and wiggle around on?
I have a pedal bike that I love, but I parked it permanently when I started kickin'
Of course, serious kickin' folks will point out that the Curries are lousy kick scoots. Designed well to the motor end of the kick-motor spectrum of scooter designs.
So my next kick scoot will be easier to kick, with platform lower to the ground, and based around a 16" Crystalyte hub motor for its front wheel.
With a motor rated about 600w continuous, in truth it will be a powered scoot with HA - human-assist. Packing lithium too, not lead.
In 2000, the US Consumer Products Safety Commission studied (unpowered) kick scooters, when North America was being flooded with cheap kick scoots for kids...
From their findings:
"CPSC staff compared scooter injury rates with injury rates for
similar products -- including skateboards, in-line skates, and
bicycles."
"The comparison showed that:
Scooter riding had the lowest rate of emergency-room-treated
injury per 1,000 participants among the four products/
activities (3.09 per 1,000)."
"Bicycling had the highest rate of emergency-room-treated
injuries (12.58 per 1,000)."
"Bicycle riders reported more than twice as many days of
riding (61.3) on average than did scooter riders (29.9)
in 2000. But the injury rate for bicycles (2.05 per
10,000 days) was still double the rate for scooters
(1.03 per 10,000 days)."
"When considering the injury rates per 10,000 days of
participation for these four activities, skateboarding
was associated with the highest rate of injury. The
skate-boarding rate (2.51 per 10,000 days) was almost
2.5 times the rate for scooters."
"Scooters were associated with the lowest rate of injury
among those four products, regardless of which exposure
measure was used."
And even with the "lowest rate of injury" noted, what these quotes omit
to say is that their study found that many of the injuries to scooter
riders were due only to poor design and cheap construction (sharp edges,
for example.) And that of course, most of the riders they were studying
were very young and inexperienced. And that many of the reports were filed second-hand, from parents that hadn't even seen the accident.
A well-designed and built kick scooter offers numerous advantages over the pedal bicycle for urban environments.
With smaller wheel diameters, it has a much shorter overall length, perhaps two feet shorter, but a wheel-base the same as the pedal bike with large diameter wheels.
Urban bike shops are selling lots more folding bikes and bikes with smaller wheels these days.
The shorter overall length makes these two-wheelers much easier to maneuver in pathways crowded with pedestrians, or through doors, or indoors. Easier to carry up stair wells. Easier to turn around in elevators. The vehicle can be tucked away in many places that the pedal bike can not.
Replacement tires and tubes are cheaper.
One of the great things and fun things about power-assist is the great acceleration that the electrics afford. This makes it easier for the rider to slow down when safety dictates (knowing that higher speeds can be regained quickly and easily.)
In theory, the smaller the wheel diameter, the faster the hub motor wheel should be able to “spin-upâ€￾, all else being equal. So I have been happy with the Currie 12.5â€￾ wheels, except for two things…
The tires that are available are generally intended for the sort of 12.5â€￾ wheel found on a small childs vehicle… The quality and selection of tires just isn’t there, compared to the larger diameters. And certainly not intended for the higher RPMs of faster travels.
And the torque of electrics does tear up the rubber. On the Curries, I’ve been replacing three or four back (driven) tires for every front tire, because of wear.
So moving to 16â€￾ gets me into some high quality street tires… Things like Hookworms and Schwalbe Big Apples.
And, the smaller the wheel/tire, the higher the RPMs for any given speed, such that any imbalances in the manufacture or the set on the rim or the wear on the tire become more noticeable, as shakes or vibrations.
So for me, 16â€￾ is a compromise.
Kick scooters have no seats to get wet in the rain, or to get stolen, or to have to disconnect and pack around for securities sake. (I live in the bike theft Capital of North America, apparently.)
There are many reports that most bicycle riders are on vehicles that are not properly sized or adjusted for their own measurements. Leg lengths, etc. And reports of “damageâ€￾ that can happen to males sitting on poorly designed seats, or to anyone from strains that can result from a poorly fitted pedal bike.
With the stand-up kick scoot, it’s more of a one-size-fits-all scenario, where only the handle height needs to be adjusted, and this is easy to do. And the money saved on not buying Preparation H alone… well, errr, never mind… :lol:
In fact it is really important on the kick scooter platform *not* to rest your weight on the handles. With rider weight resting entirely on the feet, the scooter has far less of a tendency for the rider to catapult over the handles at a panic stop. And in my case, resting any weight on my wrists is painful anyway, because of RSI.
Having fallen off both pedal bicycles and kick scooters many times, I believe I know why the scooters are inherently safer for the rider.
Scooter riders tend to fall more onto their feet, or knees and hands. Pedal bike riders, with their vehicles comfortably jammed in their crotches, have their legs more tangled with the vehicle, and tend to topple over onto their torsos and shoulders and heads.
Small, light weight motorized vehicles, as bicycles with power-assist, are the safest vehicles we have today. Not perhaps for the rider, but for everyone else around them, on foot, or on wheels.
I believe that when you remove the “safetyâ€￾ of crush zones and air bags and seat belts etc, that most operators become more circumspect about their personal safety, and this makes them safer for everyone else around them.
With this perspective, the kick scooters are safer still.
Because it is so much easier for the rider to mount and dismount.
To shift from walking to kicking and motoring and back to walking again.
This ease promotes safer behaviour around pedestrians, where the pedal bike rider might be less inclined to dismount, because this is more “troubleâ€￾.
Another point about slower speeds… You will notice the pedal bike riders at very slow speeds wobbling around as their natural balance mechanism auto-corrects things to keep the riders weight (resting high up over the wheels, on the seat) over top of the wheels.
Scooters, with the riders weight resting on feet, low to the ground and between the wheel axles or lower, do no exhibit this tendency to wobble, anywhere near to the same degree.
So it is a more comfortable ride for the rider, and promotes less “angstâ€￾ among any pedestrians nearby as well.
Two years ago the Currie flew with me as “luggageâ€￾, folded down into a shoulder bag.
The airline pronounced it too small to be a bicycle, which normally require their special packaging and extra charges.
If I owned a four-wheeled vehicle, I suppose it would be easier than a pedal bike to stow in the trunk as well… It is certainly easier to stow aboard the boat.
Any well designed power-assist vehicle should have a battery pack that can be removed for charging in doors. My next scooter certainly will. Currie didn’t get this right with their older scooters either.
Because my average commutes run to 20km (one way), and trips around town have been longer, and because the Curries only come with small lead packs that suffer with age and cold ambient temperatures and longer distances, I have opportunity charged a lot over the years. In client offices and restaurant patios and coffee shops etc.
Offices and patios are not places you usually see pedal bicycles.
But the smaller scooter is easier to “sneakâ€￾ into these sorts of establishments. Not to mean “sneakâ€￾ as in undiscovered, but that it appears so much smaller than a pedal bicycle, and really can be “parkedâ€￾ behind a desk or a seat or potted plant (anywhere next to the plug!), and visually just “disappearsâ€￾, so that management or security just don’t object…
Helps to be a regular customer of course <smile>.
When folks ask “How long does it take to chargeâ€￾, well, the simple answer is of course that much of the time that it is charging I am working or sleeping or eating or playing, so of course it takes no time at all!
So D-Man. What else can I tell you – scooter versus pedal bike?
I intended this msg to be much longer, but it is late and my fingers and hands and wrists are sore.
The Victorian pedal bicycle was a wonderful thing in its day. But today I know we can to better.
For me, I am just a pedestrian, where my scooter is my “running machineâ€￾. Yes, I still honour the Baron and his Laufmachine.
My next vehicle won’t be an “electric scooterâ€￾ at all, but a “Drayâ€￾, in His name. After all, he kicked too!
The power-assist just “kicksâ€￾ my vehicle up to a new level, and makes my scoot practical for the longer distances.
Thanks
Lock