hillzofvalp
100 kW
? Seal enclosure? lock water out (or in?) leave vented? apply dielectric to all the nickel and in crevices? which dielectric?
How to prevent water ingress for Outdoor motorcycle packs
- Thread starter hillzofvalp
- Start date
dogman dan
1 PW
Assuming you mean to ride through real rain, a completely sealed box would be best. Something on the lines of ammo can, or similarly gasket lid metal or plastic box. Then vent it, then seal the vents with aluminum hot duct tape. It will remain sealed, that tape can stand salt water immersion. But if you have an event. the expanding gasses could be allowed to vent by blowing out the taped vent holes first.
The bms, if any, might need ventilation. So it would go in a seperate box, but this one would have vents that try to exclude water, or be mounted in a sealable heat sinking box like controllers.
The bms, if any, might need ventilation. So it would go in a seperate box, but this one would have vents that try to exclude water, or be mounted in a sealable heat sinking box like controllers.
hillzofvalp
100 kW
My friend has a motorcycle with abs and al protecting the pack.. Rtv sealant is applied between cracks. He kept it out of the rain in his garage or under a cover and still found water inside which ruined part of his pack.. What about fiberglass?
dogman dan
1 PW
Whatever material, a well constructed drybox is what you need I'd think. That's why I was thinking in terms of ammo can, pelican box, the sort of stuff you'd pack your camera equipment in to go and float the grand canyon. Then to not contain gasses, some kind of blowout vents. The heating cooling tape I mentioned is capable of sticking to a polyethylene surfboard in salt water for quite awhile. So it would seal well on a smooth surface, yet blow out if gasses were expanding inside the box. Other options include a pipe or tubing routed to a sure to be dry place to vent the box.
RTV will NOT stick to ABS plastic, that was a sure fire fail. But he might be able to try again with the stuff I used to make more permanent ding repairs to polyethylene surfboards with. Special sealant caulk intended for rain gutters. Super sticky, the only sealant known to stick to poly. Then mabye back it up with the aluminum foil tape.
Fiberglass can of course be made into custom shapes fairly easily, and he could fabricate something that would stay dry with that. Maybe incorporate some kind of rubber gasket on the lid to create a drybox in the exact size and shape he needs.
Some of that water could really easily be condensation. That's why I was thinking taped blowout panels rather than an open vent setup. Or have active venting to prevent condensation build up.
RTV will NOT stick to ABS plastic, that was a sure fire fail. But he might be able to try again with the stuff I used to make more permanent ding repairs to polyethylene surfboards with. Special sealant caulk intended for rain gutters. Super sticky, the only sealant known to stick to poly. Then mabye back it up with the aluminum foil tape.
Fiberglass can of course be made into custom shapes fairly easily, and he could fabricate something that would stay dry with that. Maybe incorporate some kind of rubber gasket on the lid to create a drybox in the exact size and shape he needs.
Some of that water could really easily be condensation. That's why I was thinking taped blowout panels rather than an open vent setup. Or have active venting to prevent condensation build up.
cwah
100 MW
Would waterproof spray work?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikwax-Direct-Spray-Waterproofing-Misc/dp/B0016ISY94/ref=pd_cp_sg_1
Would need to spray from time to time
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nikwax-Direct-Spray-Waterproofing-Misc/dp/B0016ISY94/ref=pd_cp_sg_1
Would need to spray from time to time
dogman dan
1 PW
No, other than to help waterproof a fabric bag that is placed over the battey box. Abs and polyethylene plastc are a bitch to get sealants to stick to.
But that's an option worth exploring, sew a gore tex bag to cover the abs and alu box?
Or,,, substitute pvc plastic for the abs? Then you can pvc weld it.
But that's an option worth exploring, sew a gore tex bag to cover the abs and alu box?
Or,,, substitute pvc plastic for the abs? Then you can pvc weld it.
docnjoj
1 GW
I would probably be considering how to get water out than trying to keep it out. Unless you run the motorcycle in the desert condensation wil usually occur. Gotta have a way out for water that will get in.
otherDoc
otherDoc
cwah
100 MW
Here's how I made my pack waterproof:
The pack is wrapped with cellophane inside a 1kg polycarbonate box.
The pack is inside my brompton bag:
And I'll spray some waterproof spray on the bag.
The pack is wrapped with cellophane inside a 1kg polycarbonate box.
The pack is inside my brompton bag:
And I'll spray some waterproof spray on the bag.
hillzofvalp
100 kW
May be between battery modules I can install some sort of wicking material that will gradually disperse and evaporate any water that gets in the pack.
It is hard to think about how to vent a 336 cell 26650 pack. Or, for that matter, how to configure the modules in the safest way.
What about potting material? What if I dunked each module in it? It's not too heavy... Would breach for pressure problems.. Right?
It is hard to think about how to vent a 336 cell 26650 pack. Or, for that matter, how to configure the modules in the safest way.
What about potting material? What if I dunked each module in it? It's not too heavy... Would breach for pressure problems.. Right?
hillzofvalp
100 kW
http://www.henkel.com/battery-production-33517.htm
I read somewhere that the cells expand some during charging.. But assume that is lead acid And large life type.
The nickel foil covering 12p module ends does some of the work i would think for sealing. (wouldnt need potting between cells in some areas.
What if I just sealed between the cells before I welded them. I could just use some sort of epoxy. Then I could seal the edges f the nickel so water can't get it in. The top of the nickel I can just use kapton or tape.
I read somewhere that the cells expand some during charging.. But assume that is lead acid And large life type.
The nickel foil covering 12p module ends does some of the work i would think for sealing. (wouldnt need potting between cells in some areas.
What if I just sealed between the cells before I welded them. I could just use some sort of epoxy. Then I could seal the edges f the nickel so water can't get it in. The top of the nickel I can just use kapton or tape.
dogman dan
1 PW
That sounds harder than building a well gasketed drybox to me.
Once you have a truly sealed box, with a blowout panel for emergency venting, then you could just put some drying agent inside. Same stuff you find in every pill bottle. It will then absorb any humidity in the box that gets in, like through a tiny gap in a wiring hole gasket. Dry right is one brand name.
You just have to use the right kind of sealants if you use plastics like ABS or poly. Gutter caulk for poly, but butlylene caulk is good for glass or metal sealing. Butylene will stay gooey for years though. So you might want to cover any excess with tape or something.
Once you have a truly sealed box, with a blowout panel for emergency venting, then you could just put some drying agent inside. Same stuff you find in every pill bottle. It will then absorb any humidity in the box that gets in, like through a tiny gap in a wiring hole gasket. Dry right is one brand name.
You just have to use the right kind of sealants if you use plastics like ABS or poly. Gutter caulk for poly, but butlylene caulk is good for glass or metal sealing. Butylene will stay gooey for years though. So you might want to cover any excess with tape or something.
hillzofvalp
100 kW
hmmmm. I definitely am using clear plastic sheet (probably polycarbonate) so that I can peek into the pack and also for cosmetic appeal of 336 shiny green 26650s.. 
I wonder if I should just DP420 most of it together..
I wonder if I should just DP420 most of it together..
liveforphysics
100 TW
hillzofvalp said:
If you attempt a sealed pack, you will not succeed, and it will become an aquarium.
Sealed can only work if you a real hermetic seal, which means you have to use solid lugs for every connection, because even a jacketed wire entering and exiting is plenty of path to make a nice little warming/cooling air pump that sucks in humid air as it cools, condenses it inside the battery case, and repeats this process until you've got an aquarium battery.
Try to make a difficult path for water to enter, and have plenty of drain holes anywhere water can collect (you can have a labyrinth under them to protect from road spray entering etc).
If water doesn't have an easy path out of the battery, that battery is going to have issues from accumulating water.
hillzofvalp
100 kW
I agree.Maybe I should narrow the interconnecting nickel to act as fuses for each series in the event of mishap with water
liveforphysics
100 TW
Lol. Water won't pop a fuse. Just bubbles a little and corodes and discharges over time.
hillzofvalp
100 kW
Ok. Well that simplifies my build. I am going to use all cell phase change material which changes phase at 55C.. A little high for this a123 chemistry but it's the only sample available to me. I doubt at 3-8C the pack will ever reach 35C anyways, but good for peace of mind and freak accidents.
I will stack modules vertically with 1/16" garolite in between, cover with formex, then compress pack slightly with 1/4" aluminum. Then I will seal everything on the top and edges.. And have ore drilled relief holes in key areas. Should I run all wiring out the bottom of this 2.5kWh pack?
Gases will be able to get out with this tight compression method I would hope.
I will stack modules vertically with 1/16" garolite in between, cover with formex, then compress pack slightly with 1/4" aluminum. Then I will seal everything on the top and edges.. And have ore drilled relief holes in key areas. Should I run all wiring out the bottom of this 2.5kWh pack?
Gases will be able to get out with this tight compression method I would hope.
hillzofvalp
100 kW
btw, luke, I saw you on elmoto. I posted a thread (Mb-5 related) but for some reason it doesn't work. I have gotten very little interest on the motorcycle forum here so I hope elmoto can give me some tips