Improved Weatherproofing Idea

[zukster]

No one is getting back to me from above.

Does anyone have any suggestion on alternative products with the same properties or close.

Maybe something a little more common and available around town?

 

[grindz145]

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/acf50.php

This place is out of GA/CA, I didn't see anything about shipping internationally but I don't imagine over the border to Canada would be a problem. Give them a try maybe. I am going to order some myself. The salt has already started...

 

[Affliction]

No one is getting back to me from above.

Does anyone have any suggestion on alternative products with the same properties or close.

Maybe something a little more common and available around town?

You're not trying hard enough. Call the company and find the local sales rep for your area. These guys work on commission so they won't say no to a sale oportunity. You might have to pick your order up from one of their clients tho. Try calling auto body shops in your area because they frequently use Wurth Film to lubricate door hinges.
http://www.wurthcanada.com/en/contact.html
Company Information
Würth Canada Limited
6330 Tomken Road
Mississauga, Ontario, L5T 1N2



Telephone: (905) 564-6225
Toll Free Phone: 1-800-263-5002
Toll Free Fax: 1-800-347-0677
I.T. Pager 905-564-6225 x4848
1-800-263-5002 x4848

For inquiries about the website, please email webmaster@wurth.ca
For all other inquiries, please email info@wurth.ca

 

[zukster]

Wurth lost a customer. ACF-50 gained one. I called Spruce's Canada number in Brampton, Ontario and they
are couriering me a couple of 13 oz spray cans for 15 bucks each. You shouldn't have to push a company's
main office too hard to get the info I wanted.

Spruce's Bramton Canada number is 519-759-5017.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/acf50.php

To order from the Canada web site, click Canada down on the left, the Search for ACF-50.
Its easier to phone them.

 

[Affliction]

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/tools/cycling-tools/chain-lubricant/product/acf-50-anti-corrosion-formula-9086
By Michael Stenning
Products developed for use in the aerospace industry often translate very well to cycling and this is no exception. This is not a PTFE-based water displacer, rather it is designed to form an atmospheric seal against the elements which, it claims, remains effective for 12 months and kills corrosion on contact.

I applied a light application to a pair of SPD cleats sporting some surface corrosion. From the nozzle, ACF-50 is pinkish purple, but within a few minutes the mixture settles to a neutral hue and I was amazed to find the dirty brown corrosion on the cleats had apparently neutralised to a matt black.

While far thicker in viscosity than water displacement sprays, it lends itself better to corrosion prevention than lubrication, so isn't really a chain lube. But I have every confidence that, reapplied twice yearly, it should minimise chances of internal corrosion in frames, trailers and racks, and eliminate the need to drill out corroded SPD shoe fittings - even on bikes living in coastal regions.

Although £12 for a 369g aerosol might not seem particularly cheap, a little seems to go a long way.
Manufacturers description
Imagine a world without corrosion! Just think¿no rust, less maintenance, cleaner engines, greater reliability, higher residual machine value. How much easier things would be! Now imagine a highly sophisticated, non-toxic, active, thin film water-displacing compound. A compound with salt blockers and corrosion inhibitors that stays active for up to 12 months. A lubricant so advanced that it is approved for electrical components (40Kv dielectric yet NO electrical contact resistance). A product that will stop existing corrosion as well as preventing it from starting. A product that was developed to help jet aircraft stay airborne. As close to ZERO CORROSION as nature will allow.

While far thicker in viscosity than water displacement sprays, it lends itself better to corrosion prevention than lubrication, so isn't really a chain lube. But I have every confidence that, reapplied twice yearly, it should minimise chances of internal corrosion in frames, trailers and racks, and eliminate the need to drill out corroded SPD shoe fittings - even on bikes living in coastal regions.

I like the fact they say it coats thick but not good for chain lube? If acf-50 can't provide adequate lubrication then what good is it in a geared hub motor?

 

[Affliction]

I destroy pretty much every component on my bike during a winter from the effects of roadsalt. From the chain to the deraillers and the freewheel sprocket, it's all frocked come spring. The motors are another issue alltogether. Wurth Film is a new discovery for me since last winter and all the repairs I had to do. I lubricate just about every moving component on my bike with it now. All other lubes I tried in the past have washed off and rust ensued. I lubed my chain once when I installed it and I havn't had to do anything since. What good is acf-50 if it can't lubricate?

 

[zukster]

What good is acf-50 if it can't lubricate?

I'll let you know when I get it if it can lubricate or not. I'll try it on my chain. I don't care if it lubes the motor or not.
I just want to it to keep the water out, and kill any rust that starts.

Maybe research a bit before posting...

It is superior anti-corrosion compound.
It kills corrosion in progress
It prevents new corrosion cells from forming for 12-18 months
It is an excellent penetrant.
It is an excellent light lubricant.

This is good shit!
If you can get this stuff then it has the same properties of Wurth Film.
All I see while searching this is websites in the UK.
I'd definately use it if it was availabe in Canukistan
Lube, corrosion, and penetrating.... all properties you want to protect your hub motor from the elements..
This is probably the same stuff rebranded! The wurth film has actually stopped all rust on my unpainted kickstand mount!
The mount has direct spray from the rear tire and none of the protection has washed off.

Now we have conflicting advice. In any event, I'll post an update here on how it works for me in both the motor
and chain. There's nothing like a real world test. I'm sure the Wurth Film works well since you've used it with
excellent sucess. That will be my backup plan if there's any problem with the ACF-50.

 

[Affliction]

Maybe research a bit before posting...

The beginning of this thread was all about glorifying this ACF-50 without any proof, all the properties sound good on paper but I finally found a reviewer who uses this on his bike. http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/tools/cycling-tools/chain-lubricant/product/acf-50-anti-corrosion-formula-9086
I've been reading about people prasing this shit for years. But none with actual use testimonials on bikes. Turns rust black? Sounds familiar.....
Auto body shops use a similar product all the time. You can buy this shit at canadian tire. frock I work with different lubricants on a daily basis! What really turned me off on acf-50 was the review that it was not good for chain lube
Meaning it doesn't lubricate as good as the manufacturer advertizes. A bike chain has got to be the hardest thing to take care of on a bike. It is either a rusty mess or it flings grease all over your clothing. If you can maintain a bike chain with little or no effort or mess in road salt conditions then you have found the right product.

 

[zukster]

For my chain I've been using I've been using Phil Wood’s Tenacious Oil for for over 20 years now. It sticks to the chain
in the rain and the muck and I only have to reapply ever couple of months (more in winter). If you use too much, some
will fly all over, but then what's left stays on well. I don't know how this stuff would work on winter salt roads.

Turns rust black? Sounds familiar.....

Yep, sounds familiar, but I'm committed to try the ACF-50 now. It's already ordered.
I'll post my review as soon as I try it for a while.

Now for Internal Motor Fun

I just opened my 8-Fun Bafang SWXH Hub that's been sealed up and on the road for about six months.
The last couple months here have been like constant rain and I thought it would be a mess inside.
Well I was wrong. There was hardly any corrosion at all and the synthetic grease I applied looks brand
new still. Its pretty clear now that the motor never got nearly hot enough to liquefy the grease
I used (Castrol Syntec Multi Purpose Synthetic grease). Unfortunately I had the bike inside
by the furnace for a few days so I'm not sure if there was any water in the hub that evaporated before
I had a chance to open it up. The windings look good too, so the motor is still okay. Now I suspect my
controller was causing my bike dying in heavy rains problem.

What kind of hub motor do you have Affliction? The Bafang looks mostly Aluminum inside. That might
explain the lack of rust. There was a bit of white Aluminum Oxide corrosion on the screw on cap, but that
was it. I made no attempt to plug the hole where the wires exit the motor through the axle on this hub.

Now its hard to tell if I really needed to order a film type protective spray or not... If there was any water
in there, I like the films property of being able to keep the water off the motor parts. Maybe I'll just do
a little hole and spray in the ACF-50 when it arrives.

Also, people have discussed on the best way to plug such a hole. I'm inclined to drill it, then use
a metal tap to thread it, then put in a machine bolt with some silicone RTV on the threads. On the other
hand, if water did not get in where the wires come out, I doubt it will get in the little hole (like you
said Affliction). Still I'll probably tap the hole an put in a bolt. ADD sucks eh?

 

[Affliction]

What kind of hub motor do you have Affliction? The Bafang looks mostly Aluminum inside. That might
explain the lack of rust. There was a bit of white Aluminum Oxide corrosion on the screw on cap, but that
was it. I made no attempt to plug the hole where the wires exit the motor through the axle on this hub.

I'm using Chrystalite 408's, yup DUAL 408's Gotta be the worst motor in the world as far as weather proofing goes but I managed to do it.
The stator poles are iron thus the rust. The housings are aluminum. I replaced all the hall sensors on both motors last winter a month apart.
The motors were brand new in the previous spring. Soon as salt season hit everything frocked up. I had warranty so I didn't modify anything yet because I wanted to know the weaknesses of the systems. The way I ride, I'd kill your bafang in short order
I don't like geared hub motors for 1 simple fact, too much extra shit to go wrong. Good thing Justin didn't go with the E-Zee hub for a cross canada trip My friend Juergen at ridemore.ca has a flood of siezed hub motors every spring to repair.
Ohh and I now have my brothers Bionx here with a frocked hall sensor to repair as well and he rides in the winter too.
Notice a pattern? Aluminum oxide is the start zuckster, it will go to shit quickly if you don't adress it.
Retailers don't want to prevent breakdowns; why would they? They sell more bikes and kits this way.

 

[Affliction]

On the other
hand, if water did not get in where the wires come out, I doubt it will get in the little hole (like you
said Affliction). Still I'll probably tap the hole an put in a bolt. ADD sucks eh?

Do as you wish......... :wink:
You'll just have to make a vastly larger hole to be able to tap a pipe plug into it.
The hole the size of a can straw is how big?............
I like the ADD crack... got a joke for ya....
What is black and blue and doesn't like sex? A: zuckster in my basement

 

[zukster]

What is black and blue and doesn't like sex? A: zuckster in my basement

You are truly evil Assfliction

You can get taps the size of a little straw. I'm going to go a bit larger (about 1/8) just so the bolt will
be a bit larger and less likely to break. The freewheel is on one side but I don't have disk brakes, so that's
the side where it will will go.

 

[grindz145]

A grease fitting would be sweet too, just pump it up with some new stuff once and a while and clean up the overflow...

 

[Affliction]

A grease fitting would be sweet too, just pump it up with some new stuff once and a while and clean up the overflow...

Ya , Ya do that allready; not really ideal for a hub motor tho. I grease my forks and crank and swingarm pivot with grease fittings.

 

[johnrobholmes]

How about Corrosion X? It is a great product for motors.

 

[Affliction]

How about Corrosion X? It is a great product for motors.

Is that like Boeshield?
I'm sticking my guns to this!
Wurth Film is a nieche product not sold to the general public. You have to be a business to purchase it.
Wierd material saftey laws and all.......
All this other corrosion shit dries out ;ACF50, Boeshield and the like and they don't lubricate or continue to penetrate the metal.
Is corrosion X good chain lube?

 

[johnrobholmes]

Yep, look it up. You can soak a motor in it, then run the motor underwater for quite a while before needing to reapply.

 

[gestalt]

Back to the conformal coating idea that was espoused earlier, upon taking apart my GM hpm5000b I noticed that all the wiring and coils are conformal coated. The motor is advertised as water proof and I think it would be more acurate to say that it's water resistant. I could see moisture could getting in through the outer bearings and the joint between the outer casing and the rear housing. For the joint I was thinking of using some sturdy silicone sealing glue. That corrosion X sounds like a great extra measure of protection though for the inside, it's officially on my grocery list.

 

[Affliction]

Use CorrosionX to eliminate corrosion and protect all metal surfaces of your boat, trailer and dockside equipment. Especially recommended for brightwork (keeps stainless from pimpling), hatches, powerheads, antenna bases, hinges and latches.

CorrosionX is also the best lubricant you can use for maritime applications. It does not attract dust, outperforms lubricants fortified with Teflon* (PTFE), and due to it's unique polar bonding technology, CorrosionX repels water, and doesn't dissipate quickly or wash off in harsh saltwater environments. Use CorrosionX on throttle cables, steering mechanisms, seat swivels, locks, travelers, winches, pulleys, furling systems, tracks and on any other gear that would benefit from lubrication.

Due to its extraordinary dielectric properties, CorrosionX should be applied to all battery terminals, terminal strips, ignition switches, electrical connectors, circuit breakers, fuse holders, light switches, light sockets, electrical plugs, blower motors and fans to protect them from corrosion, extend their life and keep them working reliably. Although CorrosionX is inherently nonflammable, the environmentally-friendly propellant used in our aerosol cans is flammable. Please use caution when applying to electrical equipment. Before applying, make sure there is no current running though the system and that electrical motors are disconnected before applying.

I was convinced before I read this...

It does not attract dust

.... This is the same crap as ACF50!
If it doesn't remain fluid and tacky then it stops increasing the protection after application.

 

[lifepo4ever]

the drill hole with some spray seem to be the best choice , but my new motor is 2807 9c and they already have a seal but is it enought
to protect the interior of the motor or should I protect it with spray can?

 

[lifepo4ever]

for the chain and cable of my bike I use Sewing Machine lube I only apply 2 time in summer and I use it everyday I never heard a sound from the chain but for the winter I don't know if is really efficient

 

[zukster]

I got the ACF-50. I'll try it in the motor and on the chain and post
back in a month or two with the findings.

I tapped a hole in the motor for maintenance like I was talking
about. Partly because I just wanted to get it back together and I
had not received the ACF-50 yet.

I used a standard M5 0.8 thread pitch tap, the same as what is
used for water bottle mount holes that take standard bike style
Allen key bolts.

Oh my god - you can almost see China through that hole

Note that the hole is placed where there is a gap between the
case and the gears so I can get the ACF-50 in.

I had this bolt available from another Bafang I previously toasted.
It happened to be an M5 0.8 and is very short so it will not poke
through on the inside too much.

I ended up using the smallest size from these assorted tap washers.

Now to lube it up up.

 

[lifepo4ever]

I don't say its a bad idea but I can't do that because at 65kph my wheel will shake a bit I think

can someone can tell me if my 9c is enougth protected by the seal Because I will run my ebike all winter here in the snow

 

[zukster]

Have you ever lifted you wheel up and let it rip? There's a bit of wobble in all my wheels with hubs laced in. This
is pretty normal. The little plug is not going to effect anything. I might have done it a bit more toward the center
if I was using a disk brake. Where I have it just just clears where a disk rotor would go. Something to consider
if doing this to any hub motor.

(1) That where you place the hole has a space behind it so the spray can get in.
(2) That there are no gears that can contact the end of the screw if it pokes in a bit - or just grind it down
so its flush on the inside when tight.
(3) That there is clearance for a rotor and anything else nearby.

Have you ever opened up your 9c? I think its better than some:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=11758#p178612

I might just leave it be myself, then check it in six months or so.

Since I opened mine up, I put a lot of grease around the seals where the axles exit the hub. That will give it
a bit more water resistance.

 

[grindz145]

Nice Job zuckster! I look forward to seeing the results. The salt trucks are in full force...