DasDouble
100 kW
Ok I think Im getting more and more closer to a decision which motor Im gonna take for my 4kw 45km/h 650-500 rpm use..
-Thanks to all
Cheers, Elias
-Thanks to all
Cheers, Elias
improving MXUS 3000 V2
- Thread starter madin88
- Start date
Doctorbass
100 GW
markz said:
I used turnigy 10g silicon wire that i remved the silicone and replaced by heat shring and wraped with kapton tape. I then used patience and grease to get all the 3 phases as well as the hall sensor wires to go thru that 8mm hole in the axel without damaging these.
Doc
markz
100 TW
I just got my 12 and 10 awg Teflon PTFE wire in today, he sent it on Monday, so 2 days. 36 feet of the stuff for $23 bucks Canadian "Two/Loonies"
The first package is long gone, they might be using the package as a Rugby ball.... so I might be getting a 2 for 1 deal.
Anyway, I got my 10awg in, the 3rd wire only needed some wiggling nothing major. The hall and temp wires should be easy with help from picture frame wire.
If I measure the diameter of the wire, will this give me the guage of the wire?
It just seems too easy to slip all three 10awg wires through the axle.
There is no markings on the wire itself, so I am a bit suspicious if I even have Teflon PTFE wire.
The stuff is slippery, and I guess I could measure the wire itself from a cut end with my digital meter.
Does a small zip tie fit on the shaft at the output of the wires to keep the wires insulation from scraping off, or is the only solution grinding the sharpness off the output?
I noticed my sense wires are kinda cut, going to find the thinnest wire possible and heat shrink all together. Double up at the output.
The first package is long gone, they might be using the package as a Rugby ball.... so I might be getting a 2 for 1 deal.
Anyway, I got my 10awg in, the 3rd wire only needed some wiggling nothing major. The hall and temp wires should be easy with help from picture frame wire.
If I measure the diameter of the wire, will this give me the guage of the wire?
It just seems too easy to slip all three 10awg wires through the axle.
There is no markings on the wire itself, so I am a bit suspicious if I even have Teflon PTFE wire.
The stuff is slippery, and I guess I could measure the wire itself from a cut end with my digital meter.
Does a small zip tie fit on the shaft at the output of the wires to keep the wires insulation from scraping off, or is the only solution grinding the sharpness off the output?
I noticed my sense wires are kinda cut, going to find the thinnest wire possible and heat shrink all together. Double up at the output.
Yep, I learned the same approach from Allex (Thanks Allex) and managed to squeeze 12g silicone wire through the axle of my HS4080 as well as 2X 14g for my fans and 8X 36g Teflon wire for my halls, and 2x temp sensors.Doctorbass said:
I recommend the 36g stuff I used.markz said:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11849__Turnigy_Teflon_Coated_Wire_36AWG_1mtr_Red.html
The only catch is not getting it all tangled up and remembering which color is which outside the axle since it only comes in red and black. I liken it to trying to sew with spaghetti:
Cheers
markz
100 TW
If I go 36 guage sense wires, then I wrap some seperate 36 guage around 10 guage on the stator wires, or do I flay the 10 guage around stator wires and then wrap 36 guage around tightly then solder?
How much overlap should I have on the 10 awg to the stator wire?
I see you even put heat shrink on the stator side of 10/12awg phase wires.Is that wise to do especially over the stator wires where you solder?
I find the strands on my 10 awg ptfe teflon wires are really stiff, Im not sure if thats good or bad. When I stripped it, it worked well on 10 guage hole on stripped and on the 12 guage hole it marked the strands so its definately 10 awg and I really had no problems fishing them through the axle.
How much overlap should I have on the 10 awg to the stator wire?
I see you even put heat shrink on the stator side of 10/12awg phase wires.Is that wise to do especially over the stator wires where you solder?
I find the strands on my 10 awg ptfe teflon wires are really stiff, Im not sure if thats good or bad. When I stripped it, it worked well on 10 guage hole on stripped and on the 12 guage hole it marked the strands so its definately 10 awg and I really had no problems fishing them through the axle.
Try and wrap your wires around the stator/winding wire. Don't try and move, bend or flex the winding wire too much or it will break. Lots of movement on the thick copper windings causes them to weaken substantially.
Also don't wrap your joins in this 36g Teflon wire. It's insulated with Teflon so won't do much as it won't conduct very well and will probably also slide off. Use single strands of speaker wire or other single stranded copper wire to wrap the joins in.
I overlap as much as reasonable. This give 2 advantages. It ensures good electrical conductivity, and the added mass partially acts as a heat sink. This is also why I went to 8awg outside the axle even though it's not really needed for electrical conductivity. It helps to wick away heat.
TBH, I wouldn't use the ptfe wire if you can. The silicone wire myself and others have used uses smaller strands and has better fill ratio than the thicker strands used in most ptfe wire.
Not sure what your getting at about the heat shrink on the stator side. Sure, it might get hot there, but not enough to worry me with my vented side covers and fan cooled setup.
Cheers
Also don't wrap your joins in this 36g Teflon wire. It's insulated with Teflon so won't do much as it won't conduct very well and will probably also slide off. Use single strands of speaker wire or other single stranded copper wire to wrap the joins in.
I overlap as much as reasonable. This give 2 advantages. It ensures good electrical conductivity, and the added mass partially acts as a heat sink. This is also why I went to 8awg outside the axle even though it's not really needed for electrical conductivity. It helps to wick away heat.
TBH, I wouldn't use the ptfe wire if you can. The silicone wire myself and others have used uses smaller strands and has better fill ratio than the thicker strands used in most ptfe wire.
Not sure what your getting at about the heat shrink on the stator side. Sure, it might get hot there, but not enough to worry me with my vented side covers and fan cooled setup.
Cheers
markz
100 TW
It would be good to get some clarification on which wire is better for us MXUS owners to use.
Maybe its 10awg ptfe teflon from winding to the exit of the axle, then 6 or 8awg silicone wire to controller, but as short as possible.
Maybe its 10awg ptfe teflon from winding to the exit of the axle, then 6 or 8awg silicone wire to controller, but as short as possible.
Samd
10 MW
For how many amps Mark? There's a standard AWG current table.
Allex, didn't you shoot this burnout with stock phase wires at 160a/400 amp phase?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=THdZZbQUTLY
Allex, didn't you shoot this burnout with stock phase wires at 160a/400 amp phase?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=THdZZbQUTLY
markz
100 TW
Lyen 18fet rated for 65A, 60V probably and 11Ah LiFePO4, a123 m1a.
Until I get more batteries 18650 then 72V higher Ah.
Later on though, I will send the Controller back to Lyen for modification of higher amperage.
I will do the standard 2:1 ratio.
Until I get more batteries 18650 then 72V higher Ah.
Later on though, I will send the Controller back to Lyen for modification of higher amperage.
I will do the standard 2:1 ratio.
markz said:
why not A123 M1B? these are better.
what i really like about this a123 cells is you can charge them extremely fast and they have much better cycle life or general lifespan, but the downside is they have only about half the energy density as actual 18650 cells.
Allex
100 MW
Samd said:
Sam, yes all my test were with a bone stock motor, stock wires, stock bearings and also stock axle
For a Lyen 65A I would not even think about changing stock wires. 8AWG is madness, waste of time, but this is my personal opinion
But I can understand that it is fun to upgrade, but all of this gets you more of a placebo effect in the end.A 12AWG wire from the windings out to the controller is all you ever need with a mid performance bike with this motor.
This isn't entirely true IMO.Allex said:For a Lyen 65A I would not even think about changing stock wires. 8AWG is madness, waste of time, but this is my personal opinion
A 12AWG wire from the windings out to the controller is all you ever need with a mid performance bike with this motor.
I've seen massive heat running just 50A when going slow up steep off road stuff. Mind you that's at 175 phase amps.
At the very least, the thicker phase wires wick away heat better.
Cheers
the advantage of lower phase wire losses can be explained simple:
the motor will be stiffer or with other words it will have a higher RPM at given torque output -> less voltage sag means more RPM.
on 3T mxus 25% of copper losses are caused by phase wires and on 4T still 15%. the stock phase wires (not shorted) have about 18mOhm.
in the simulator we could make the difference visible by adjusting resistance of controller^^
the motor will be stiffer or with other words it will have a higher RPM at given torque output -> less voltage sag means more RPM.
on 3T mxus 25% of copper losses are caused by phase wires and on 4T still 15%. the stock phase wires (not shorted) have about 18mOhm.
in the simulator we could make the difference visible by adjusting resistance of controller^^
markz
100 TW
Damn copy and paste has a time variable.
Why a123 m1a? I dont know why, these were used batteries out of a bus from Ontario and thought they might be good, I was impressed by the discharge current, and was intrigued by the cost ~$3cdn each, but I havent tested them yet to say whether I have been ripped off or not. I could never afford $10 a cell, would much rather go 18650 25R for ~$3 each. Who knows the life cycle, just charge/discharge them reasonably.
I got the 10awg ptfe through my 4T, along with the stock sense wires or whatever you call them. I just added heat shrink to sense wires (not through shaft, just before and after shaft) and put instant glue on the nicks on the insulation.
My plan in the end is to run much higher then 65A controller.
Heres a picture
View attachment 1
I just need to find some wire to wrap then solder phase wires onto winding wire, I might use some of my old stock sense wires.
So I wondered why my wires were silver, learned they are silver plated. Which is better then copper for conuctivity.
http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html
This guy sent me another package of what I bought, was here within a day or 2 from California.
The first package was sent to Melbourne Australia by mistake of the USPS postal worker, who wrote wrong destination in their computer.
Reputable, stand up guy Steve is from Apexjr. I also bought a 1meg ohm pot for some reason, dunno what I do with it.
PTFE Silver Plated Stranded Copper Wire
HIGH TEMP --- MIL-SPEC
What is PTFE? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTFE
Why a123 m1a? I dont know why, these were used batteries out of a bus from Ontario and thought they might be good, I was impressed by the discharge current, and was intrigued by the cost ~$3cdn each, but I havent tested them yet to say whether I have been ripped off or not. I could never afford $10 a cell, would much rather go 18650 25R for ~$3 each. Who knows the life cycle, just charge/discharge them reasonably.
I got the 10awg ptfe through my 4T, along with the stock sense wires or whatever you call them. I just added heat shrink to sense wires (not through shaft, just before and after shaft) and put instant glue on the nicks on the insulation.
My plan in the end is to run much higher then 65A controller.
Heres a picture
View attachment 1
I just need to find some wire to wrap then solder phase wires onto winding wire, I might use some of my old stock sense wires.
So I wondered why my wires were silver, learned they are silver plated. Which is better then copper for conuctivity.
http://www.apexjr.com/wire.html
This guy sent me another package of what I bought, was here within a day or 2 from California.
The first package was sent to Melbourne Australia by mistake of the USPS postal worker, who wrote wrong destination in their computer.
Reputable, stand up guy Steve is from Apexjr. I also bought a 1meg ohm pot for some reason, dunno what I do with it.
PTFE Silver Plated Stranded Copper Wire
HIGH TEMP --- MIL-SPEC
What is PTFE? see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTFE
markz
100 TW
Is there a substance over the winding wire?
Do I need to take it off to solder on my 10 awg wire?
I find my strands on the 10awg hard to seperate and flare out. I tired using regular wire to wrap it, but I will buy some copper wire.
Is that solid or stranded copper wire?
I clean the surfaces with isopropyl alcohol 99.9%, but rosin core solder 63/37 is not flowing properly and is not sticking to windings, the 10awg wire is sucking it in, but drops off in globs.
Do I need to take it off to solder on my 10 awg wire?
I find my strands on the 10awg hard to seperate and flare out. I tired using regular wire to wrap it, but I will buy some copper wire.
Is that solid or stranded copper wire?
I clean the surfaces with isopropyl alcohol 99.9%, but rosin core solder 63/37 is not flowing properly and is not sticking to windings, the 10awg wire is sucking it in, but drops off in globs.
teslanv
1 MW
This MXUS 3T is stock. The Phase wires are upgraded to 8AWG once outside the axle.
[youtube]mJHVL7tU1hc[/youtube]
[youtube]mJHVL7tU1hc[/youtube]
John in CR
100 TW
markz said:
Get yourself some rosin soldering flux. You'll wonder how you ever soldered thick wire without it.
markz
100 TW
Yeah I wrote that on the list.
So theres Varnish on the winding wire, thats why its not adhering, I was thinking soaking the ends in some Coca Cola.
Is overheating the winding wire with iron an issue? Will it demagnatize my motor?
Im trying not to overheat the winding wires with my soldering iron.
So theres Varnish on the winding wire, thats why its not adhering, I was thinking soaking the ends in some Coca Cola.
Is overheating the winding wire with iron an issue? Will it demagnatize my motor?
Im trying not to overheat the winding wires with my soldering iron.
Allex
100 MW
Why would you scrape of the varnish? Just desolder the stock wire and solder the new one
John in CR
100 TW
markz said:
Not the 1cm or so at the end where the factory connected the wires to exit the motor. Like Allex said, just solder the new wire there.
markz said:
The stator has no magnets. If you got the windings hot enough, it could burn/melt, the varnish and short the phase to the stator steel or short turns together...ruining the motor without a rewind. Copper conducts heat so quickly that the temp drops rapidly in the first few cm from the solder joint, so just don't camp out there with the iron.
markz
100 TW
Yes I realize the first 5-10mm of factory solder job, but I wanted more of an overlap.
Samd
10 MW
teslanv said:
Nice one Barent!
sacko
10 kW
unclejam said:
Can i confirm that everyone using a Lyen controller is using the same configuration?
I have also read about soaking the wire tips in a paste made from generic aspirin (highly cidic), but must be pure aspirin, not tylenol.
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