improving MXUS 3000 V2

[Hyena]

Hyena, we need to start an thread of anonymous ebike enquiries from customers.

Yeah I'm sure it would be a common theme of "I want to go stupidly fast for a stupidly long time for stupidly little money. Oh yeah, and I need it like tomorrow because I just lost my license..."

On a somewhat related note, I've been thinking about creating a 'shaming thread' of horrendous builds.
I've had 2 bikes bought to me for repair recently that have appalling wiring, build quality or otherwise just sloppily or dangerously constructed.
It's one thing to build something ghetto for yourself, but to sell this stuff to others ?

 

[madin88]

teslanv,
yes the axle upgrade and phase wire upgrade is unnecessary if you operate this motor within its specifications.
however if we talking about 3T (which was initially not planned and made later by request) and pushing it above 3kW i would say it IS necessary to upgrade the phase wires. otherwise they could melt and create a short. do we agree?

Ok so much about that, but what about the other improvements i pointed up:
properly sealing (on 100% of the 8 motors i bought), the lock ring sharp like a knife that holds the wires (on 100%), the middle hall sensor not installed correct (on 50%)

if we talking about this i am with John and he has absolutely right that the manufacturer should have made this mods unnecessary.

I had a conversion about that with MXUS and i even offerend them to pay more for such motor, but they did not agree. At least i got them to build the motors for me without that sticky stuff on the covers they call sealing glue, so i do not need to waste time for removing it. When the motors arrive, i take them apart, check the halls and seal them up properly. Than i can install it with quiet conscience into the bike, but out of the box? Never.

 

[Doctorbass]

For my opinion, i agree that for 3000W these motor are ok, but these still require some improovement. I had oe motor with variance with phase to phase resistance and inductance so i doscovered that 2 strands on one phase was broken. the strands was broken due to asmall loop in these that made the strand to cut when they tightened them. thai is reducing performance of the motor. The phase wires also are fragile near the axel where the little ring that cut the insulation on these. and finally also the middle hall sensor that was deeper on 50% of my motor witch make the controller to unbalance and make larger voltage spike on the mosfet due to the diff in angle at slow rpm on high current. I also noted that the FR4 sheet that is between the winding and the stator core is broken at some place, making the strands insulation the only protection from making direct contact with the steel of the stator. This might not be a problem on the first 1000km but over the time the vibration of the winding against the stator core could damage the insulation and make a direct electrical contact to the motor stator maybe one is ok but once you get two you get a direct short of a part of the stator.

What surprize me is that these motor are still very efficient even if there is alot of loose strands in the stator ( not properly tightened strands on the stator) These loose strands increase the winding DC resistance and make more unnecessary heat.

Note that most of the suggested improovement above would improove the motor life and efficiency and might not be apparent for the common user in teh first month.. but them over the time these potential problem will just make the motor more risky to fail.

However i think their design is really nice and that with some low cost improovement this would make these motor excellent candidate for the 3000W or less user.

There is something i just can't understand from MXUS: Why using more expensive 0.35mm stator lamination witch improove efficiency, but to not take care for the winding quality?? ( loose stands, broken strands etc)

Doc

 

[Allex]

Yeah wind job look like shit!

 

[madin88]

this doesn't look like 3000W mxus.. Is it the 28mm stator?

edit:

There is something i just can't understand from MXUS: Why using more expensive 0.35mm stator lamination witch improove efficiency, but to not take care for the winding quality?? ( loose stands, broken strands etc)

Doc

this is what i also do not understand. crystalyte is the opposite (at least at the more expensive TC motors): good manufacturing quality and bearings, but the efficiency is not on top.

 

[DasDouble]

For my opinion, i agree that for 3000W these motor are ok, but these still require some improovement. I had oe motor with variance with phase to phase resistance and inductance so i doscovered that 2 strands on one phase was broken. the strands was broken due to asmall loop in these that made the strand to cut when they tightened them. thai is reducing performance of the motor. The phase wires also are fragile near the axel where the little ring that cut the insulation on these. and finally also the middle hall sensor that was deeper on 50% of my motor witch make the controller to unbalance and make larger voltage spike on the mosfet due to the diff in angle at slow rpm on high current. I also noted that the FR4 sheet that is between the winding and the stator core is broken at some place, making the strands insulation the only protection from making direct contact with the steel of the stator. This might not be a problem on the first 1000km but over the time the vibration of the winding against the stator core could damage the insulation and make a direct electrical contact to the motor stator maybe one is ok but once you get two you get a direct short of a part of the stator.

What surprize me is that these motor are still very efficient even if there is alot of loose strands in the stator ( not properly tightened strands on the stator) These loose strands increase the winding DC resistance and make more unnecessary heat.

Note that most of the suggested improovement above would improove the motor life and efficiency and might not be apparent for the common user in teh first month.. but them over the time these potential problem will just make the motor more risky to fail.

However i think their design is really nice and that with some low cost improovement this would make these motor excellent candidate for the 3000W or less user.

There is something i just can't understand from MXUS: Why using more expensive 0.35mm stator lamination witch improove efficiency, but to not take care for the winding quality?? ( loose stands, broken strands etc)

Doc, what do you personally recomment? The Crystalyte H40 or the MXUS 3000w? Just need it for 4kW Peak, 45 km/h. Not more.
Most of the time street, a maybe 10% of all the time on dirt...

-Elias
Doc

 

[Allex]

28mm stator yes, but same goes for 45mm

 

[John in CR]

...There is something i just can't understand from MXUS: Why using more expensive 0.35mm stator lamination witch improove efficiency, but to not take care for the winding quality?? ( loose stands, broken strands etc)
Doc

That's an easy one. They buy the stators unwound, and wind them in house. It's not like the big producers with quality inspection and machines for testing the final assembly before going in the box. Add to that the fact that there's a bunch of different windings when only a single winding is needed, or go with 2 if you want to do the false advertising hi torque and hi speed model offering.

The 3t with optimum copper fill is all they need to handle all performance classes of this size motor, all wheel sizes, and speeds desired, since a 2t can get a bit onerous to push at high current due to low inductance. With a single wind for all motors the employees quickly gain proficiency to do it right.

 

[Allex]

I can understand why everybody makes different windings. 95% of ebike users and manufacures uses:
1. simple, non programmable controller
2. simple battery, 24, 36 or 48V
3. well, thats about it, not optimal but this is how it works out there.

 

[DasDouble]

I don´t get it for what this "t" is for. There are many oppitunities like 3t, 4t, 5t etc.. But what does this stand for???

-What is the best for 4kW, 45 km/h, long distance?

-Cheers, Elias

 

[ziltoid81]

Have done the first 110km so far with the MXUS v2 4t in a 24 inch bicycle rim.

I give it only 60A battery and ~120 phase.
Changed the phase wires once out of the motor to 4mm2, thats it.

Acceleration is enough cause i came from a BBS01.

The only concern is the temperature when the motor is saturated with heat.
When its cold at the first couple km you can go WOT for several seconds and it cools down after.
But when the stator is fully heatet it pretty much stays there.

Martin, is it possible to use your axle and grind 2 more canals for watercooling into it on the opposite side of the halls and phases?
Or will it weaken the axle too much?

 

[John in CR]

I can understand why everybody makes different windings. 95% of ebike users and manufacures uses:
1. simple, non programmable controller
2. simple battery, 24, 36 or 48V
3. well, thats about it, not optimal but this is how it works out there.

None of that justifies different winds...especially when the result is poorly wound motors.

 

[DasDouble]

This is getting enoying... Im searching for a seller since 3 days on the whole internet, but no one is selling them anymore!?

I WANT ONE RIGHT NOW

(Pm me please!)

 

[gensem]

How much are you guys used to pay for the MXUS 3000 V2?

 

[Doctorbass]

This is getting enoying... Im searching for a seller since 3 days on the whole internet, but no one is selling them anymore!?

I WANT ONE RIGHT NOW

(Pm me please!)

I have one 4T brand new never used mounted on a 19" Holmes Hobby rim with Sinko 244 tire. Pm me if you are interested

Doc

 

[John in CR]

Uh oh! Doc selling a motor is bad news. Doc, someday you'll graduate to the best, but don't wait too long or it will cost as much as a craplyte. :lol:

 

[Doctorbass]

Uh oh! Doc selling a motor is bad news. Doc, someday you'll graduate to the best, but don't wait too long or it will cost as much as a craplyte. :lol:

lol.. I still keep my crystalyte as great souvenir from my beginig in the ebike hobby 8)

I might test the QS motor once for all and replace the 3rd MXUS i have. These are more expensive but they also have the level i'm looking for.

The 4T i'm selling have upgraded 10g phase wire( Yes thru the axel too) witch correcpond to about the same size of the 16 strands they have for the stator. It also have machined cooling holes and painted Inside cover with IR absorbant paint and the stator is protected with sprayon paint..

I would call this motor ready for run and multi kW!

Doc

 

[markz]

upgraded 10g phase wire( Yes thru the axel too)

How did you manage that Doctorbass?

How much are you guys used to pay for the MXUS 3000 V2?

I forget how much I spent on mine straight from the MXUS factory, probably around $300 then shipping was probably another $40. I still have the emails from them. Aliexpress is $300 shipped, but who knows how long it takes to ship, it says 15-30 days, but who really knows. It took 2 months to get my FastTech.com order. You could just get it from TeslaNV and it would be there quickly, non of this China mess-around crap "Siesta" BS.

-------------------------
As for how my project is coming along. Its coming along slowly since the fireworks show with the Lipos. I think I got ripped off on my a123 m1a bus batteries I spent $300 on, worked out to $4/battery. $192 was the ad, then he converted to USD but seller and me are both in Canada.

My Teflon PTFE wires were sent to Australia, USPS wrote wrong address in computer, sent to Melbourne. Waited about a month, seller is sending package #2. Maybe the minimum wage USPS worker confused AB with AUS, but I'm pretty sure they are union.
I got way more wire then I needed. 12awg axle, 10awg or 8awg axle to controller. Move controller from rear rack to ontop of battery which is on the diagonal down tube to reduce length of wire. Get rid of retainer clip, zip tie. Converted to 203mm brakes just need adapters, but will be using regen for braking, will see how it goes. Still need to find a timer for transformer tab welding to make my a123 m1a pack, 11Ah. Should have just went with Tumich in Poland for ready to go batteries. Or NKON but still need tab welder. Or get NKON with tabs on, cost added is 20% of cell, per cell.

 

[DasDouble]

You could just get it from TeslaNV and it would be there quickly, non of this China mess-around crap "Siesta" BS.

Well this is worth to call it "informative"! Thanks dude^^ I will think about it once again if Order my QS Motor directly from China^^

-Cheers, Elias

 

[markz]

$300 delivered is a smokin' hot deal!

Whats this QS motor everyones talking about, where do you buy it?
Is this it?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65972
and are they a reputable company?

 

[Samd]

$300 delivered is a smokin' hot deal!

Thanks fella we aim to please

Whats this QS motor everyones talking about, where do you buy it?
Is this it?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65972
and are they a reputable company?

The Quanhsun 205 (or in aussie speak a Quanga ) is a much bigger beast in many ways, 50mm magnets, nearly 13kg weight, and 150mm dropouts. And a big jump in price accordingly. You'll see a lot of Cromotor Clones (Croclones) on alibaba and this is the source with lots of good features. The V3 has a lot of good features but its an order of magnitude higher for everything.

To illustrate my point about choices, the Quanshun even has a big brother, a 10kw cont/20kw peak dialing in at a massive 22kilograms. It looks like a 20kg weight lifter's plate laced into a rear. At some stage you gotta choose a point on the bike->motorcross continuum and make your choice. Or have lots of different bikes

I've seen a few people in this thread compare the Mxus 3k to cromotors/croclones. Each has a very different use in my mind.

 

[markz]

Yeah well I talked to a guy a day or two ago, he bought an e-scooter, tiny little 500W. He said he should have went with a 1kw escooter, and I said well I got 3kw motor on my bicycle and I can take it on transit. He also said he's been stopped by power hungry police but they quickly scatter off when they see it has peddles. Thats precisely why I went with a bicycle, I think you are correct SamD, theres a limit and I think these motors are it. I've seen Golden Motor 10kw+ non-hub offerings, not bad pricing but made for road purpose. All I need now is Lightning Rods 3kw setup and I got everything covered.

I've been thinking, what have you guys seen that is a geared motor thats high wattage?

 

[madin88]

Uh oh! Doc selling a motor is bad news. Doc, someday you'll graduate to the best, but don't wait too long or it will cost as much as a craplyte. :lol:

if you really know of a motor with about 9kg, 90% eff, but with better motor parameters / constants, than please finish speaking.
otherwise stop spamming my thread with your overweening jabbering.

I've been thinking, what have you guys seen that is a geared motor thats high wattage?

on interbike, MAC motors or Paul from em3ev have announced a new high power hub that seems to be promising^^
there is a thread about interbike with some pics

 

[gensem]

if you really know of a motor with about 9kg, 90% eff, but with better motor parameters / constants, than please finish speaking.
otherwise stop spamming my thread with your overweening jabbering.


on interbike, MAC motors or Paul from em3ev have announced a new high power hub that seems to be promising^^
there is a thread about interbike with some pics

I have a cromotor v1 (got it in 2011) and it should perform and weight about the same of an MXUS V2. But with about 2kg more nowadays you can get a QS V3 and is just hands down better... You factor the weight, but the main diference in weight is just pure copper and a proper winding job.

The BigMac should be very interesting and lightweight, waiting for Paul to publish some data soon,

 

[macribs]

$300 delivered is a smokin' hot deal!

Whats this QS motor everyones talking about, where do you buy it?
Is this it?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65972
and are they a reputable company?

Yes they are trustworthy and I am confident you will be very pleased with them and their service.

280 $ for QS 205 v3 IIRC. That is also a great motor. Few more pounds in weight then the mxus 3000 but it can also stand and deliver more power and QS 205 have higher quality windings. My guess is that it will tolerate more heat as well then the mxus 3000 do to the extra thermal masses.