improving MXUS 3000 V2

[diggler]

Crank the voltage up a bit. What is your tire diameter?

Sorry didn't notice this earlier. There 29"
Madden mentioned modding the controller to handle 24s lipo. What's the max without modding?

Im running 65A battery which turns out to be 80A and 170A on the phase

So your controller set to 65amps but your seeing 80 on the CA?
Same question for you Doc. Did you set the controller to 100amps or is that what you were seeing on the CA?
If you set it to 100amps what did you see on the CA?

Thanks to all

 

[icecube57]

Sometimes programming doesnt match up with the real word results. Meaning its not perfectly 1:1. Come to think of it I was seeing 80A out the box before any changes So yeah mine is slightly overclocked but Lyen also beefed up the traces on my controller so Im not worried about it to much. The CA readsing are held to be true I check Lyen shut value against my own test and it was like 0.010 off which is nothing. ugh a mxus on a 29er... That must be brutal on the motor. Me on a 26 inch wheel on 24s doing 50-55mph is pushing it hard a 29er would be much worse.

 

[teslanv]

Larger Diameter wheels, do not a faster bike make.
Its counterintuitive, I know. The motor will constantly be struggling to get to or stay in its efficiency zone.
This is what JOHNinCR has told us for years, and why I only sell two rim sizes: Small and smaller. :wink:

 

[John in CR]

That's especially true for big guys like me and Icecube. We should never ride ebikes with hubbies in a 26" or larger wheel.

A good example is the 2 ebikes I had when LFP was down for a visit in 2010. They had identical motors running identical voltages using Konion packs. Luke weighed about 40lbs less than I did at the time and he mostly rode the ebike with the motor in a 17" moto rim with a tire OD of 24". My cargo bike had a 20" OD wheel on a 14" moto rim. Luke was running a much more powerful controller and despite the extra current the max speed he got was 61mph, which is the same top speed I got on the cargo bike. With big ole me aboard the motor with the 20 was always much happier on the hills, while the 24 killed the Methods super motor melting controller on the first moderate hill I tried to climb, and with less controllers it always struggled.

Gear those hubbies lower with smaller wheels for best results. Even if you're load is light enough that it doesn't struggle with the large wheel and you do get a higher speed, it will always be happier with greater overall efficiency with the smaller wheel. You can always go up in voltage to pick up the speed difference.

 

[gogo]

That's especially true for big guys like me and Icecube. We should never ride ebikes with hubbies in a 26" or larger wheel.

A good example is the 2 ebikes I had when LFP was down for a visit in 2010. They had identical motors running identical voltages using Konion packs. Luke weighed about 40lbs less than I did at the time and he mostly rode the ebike with the motor in a 17" moto rim with a tire OD of 24". My cargo bike had a 20" OD wheel on a 14" moto rim. Luke was running a much more powerful controller and despite the extra current the max speed he got was 61mph, which is the same top speed I got on the cargo bike. With big ole me aboard the motor with the 20 was always much happier on the hills, while the 24 killed the Methods super motor melting controller on the first moderate hill I tried to climb, and with less controllers it always struggled.

Gear those hubbies lower with smaller wheels for best results. Even if you're load is light enough that it doesn't struggle with the large wheel and you do get a higher speed, it will always be happier with greater overall efficiency with the smaller wheel. You can always go up in voltage to pick up the speed difference.

So, in other words, they were both hitting their battery current limits and they were both using the same power to go the same speed?

 

[diggler]

:lol: yah ice it's a fat tire too so more drag also
telsan I think this is why wesnewell wasn't getting as much speed also, but he was/is running 100v 45amps.
just not enough amps to get even close to the no load rpm with the big ash wheel!
Speaking of, what was the kv for the 3000 mxus 4t v1?
I scimmed though the first 7 pages again in the original thread and couldn't find it.
Just got the the CA v3 with the pot attachment from grin today once I get that installed and figure out why my laptop is not populating the controller in the dropdown menu in the xpd program, I'll be upping the amps to see if I can get closer to no load rpm. With the thermal roll back of course.
John always happy to have you drop some knowledge my way.
I'm about 170lbs soaking wet. But with the steal frame, the 25lb motor, 31lbs of 22ah 18s lipo (soon adding 13lbs of 16ah 18s multistars), and the gas engine, tank ect estimated weight ~25lbs (soon to be removed after some testing) The weight adds up quick!
I think the Ideal solution to building a fat tire ebike would be mid drive.
A stout big block ~15kv, output shaft spinning counter clockwise with a 48v battery. Would bolt right up to my existing jack shaft kit.
Boom Done!
Or a ~20kv on 36v.
This is about 700rmp. I figure this would work good since the gas motor runs at 500-600rpm max.
Does anybody know if one of these motors exist and have a link?

Anyway I think 42mph is fast enough (probably too fast) on tires that are probably designed to go 30mph max and say max 30psi on them. And no suspension.
I'd like to try out the widest 21" moto rim they make with the biggest tire for it. This will at least drop the OD quite a bit. Might look a little goofy but I would feel a lot safer going 50mph.

 

[icecube57]

Im a big guy I like big wheels. Even though im a big guy I like to pedal.. small wheels dont allow me to keep my preferred cadence unless i go to a large chain ring which dont fit so well on small wheel bikes or having a jacked up chainline. so im in a conundrum. Its either I have a bike built for frocking off and build a bike for pedaling. I see that is in my future especially with the drag of the Mxus. I just kinda refuse to spend money on a Patterson or slumpf style setup. Even if i got the said setup Im not pedaling the Mxus around its brutal. Past 10-15mph it sucks. Im used to pedaling atleast 22-25.

 

[teslanv]

What was the kv for the 3000 mxus 4t v1?

The V1 and V2 motors all have the same Kv & Kt.

The 4T is about 8.9Kv, based on my testing & inspection of several of these motors.

 

[John in CR]

That's especially true for big guys like me and Icecube. We should never ride ebikes with hubbies in a 26" or larger wheel.

A good example is the 2 ebikes I had when LFP was down for a visit in 2010. They had identical motors running identical voltages using Konion packs. Luke weighed about 40lbs less than I did at the time and he mostly rode the ebike with the motor in a 17" moto rim with a tire OD of 24". My cargo bike had a 20" OD wheel on a 14" moto rim. Luke was running a much more powerful controller and despite the extra current the max speed he got was 61mph, which is the same top speed I got on the cargo bike. With big ole me aboard the motor with the 20 was always much happier on the hills, while the 24 killed the Methods super motor melting controller on the first moderate hill I tried to climb, and with less controllers it always struggled.

Gear those hubbies lower with smaller wheels for best results. Even if you're load is light enough that it doesn't struggle with the large wheel and you do get a higher speed, it will always be happier with greater overall efficiency with the smaller wheel. You can always go up in voltage to pick up the speed difference.

So, in other words, they were both hitting their battery current limits and they were both using the same power to go the same speed?

Current limits of the controllers are only relevant below half speed or so. Above that it's whatever the motor is allowed to draw as BEMF vs pack voltage limits current allowed thru. While it takes the same power output to go the same speed assuming wind resistance and tire friction are the same, the result with the 2 bikes is more like with the larger wheel the bike was like a car in overdrive into a big headwind...It was simply geared too high and couldn't get to any higher speed. The bigger wheel was turning at a lower rpm, so the motor would have drawn more current, but it wasn't enough to overcome the extra torque needed to turn that bigger wheel into any greater wind resistance. That means it had to be running less efficiently...same voltage, more current, but same work being done.

 

[jimbo_bubbles]

make sure the sealing ring does not chafe against the wire. i have removed the stock lock ring (very sharp and big risk of short circuit!!) and used a zip tie instead

Damn man, just saw this thread and I already did what you mentioned today already.
That stupid ring already damaged outside of my cable so then I was wondering for about half an hour what to do with it and later replaced it with zip tie.
But I am still kind of worried about how damaged cable could be on the inside so upgrading wires is a must now (for me to sleep better at least).

And a question: did you leave stock bearing seal in there?

BTW: I also laced up the motor with your spokes today (still needs truing)

What is the purpose of that snap ring? are there negative recriminations for removing it?

 

[madin88]

What is the purpose of that snap ring? are there negative recriminations for removing it?

the purpose of that lock ring is it holds the wire close to the axle so it cannot chafe against the rotating part. this is good, but its so sharp that there is high risk of insulation damage and short circuit.

 

[macribs]

*subscribed*

 

[unclejam]

I'm running 10ga wires to the stock wires right outside the motor and haven't had any issues with wires getting warm at 4500 Watts.

Have you spliced into the stock wires, literally at the axle, or a little further forward?
I suppose the shorter that 13ga stock wires, the less heat will build up?

 

[unclejam]

well I just tried the motor and yep that third hall is no good.
motor chugged then one time didn't move. gave it a spin and it chugged again.
I must have broke it trying to pry it out.
I'll be replacing that one tomorrow.
At least I just have to pop one cover off.

Just fitted my new MXUS V2 4T and after hooking it up, there was a slight "chug" as Diggler's, then nothing, nada, nowt!
At first I wondered if I had the halls wiring correct, so tried some different combos but still no power.
Anyone confirm the wiring sequence for me please??
I have a Lyen 18 fet 4110 Infinion type.
Thanks guys

 

[teslanv]

well I just tried the motor and yep that third hall is no good.
motor chugged then one time didn't move. gave it a spin and it chugged again.
I must have broke it trying to pry it out.
I'll be replacing that one tomorrow.
At least I just have to pop one cover off.

Just fitted my new MXUS V2 4T and after hooking it up, there was a slight "chug" as Diggler's, then nothing, nada, nowt!
At first I wondered if I had the halls wiring correct, so tried some different combos but still no power.
Anyone confirm the wiring sequence for me please??
I have a Lyen 18 fet 4110 Infinion type.
Thanks guys

for the MXUS motors and a Lyen controller, Try this combo on BOTH HALLS & PHASES:

Blue-Blue
Green-Yellow
Yellow-Green

 

[unclejam]

Ahhh.... I have the phase wires connected "like for like" currently.
I'll try swapping those over.
Many thanks

 

[ecross]

Good stuff.
Thanks for the good pics.
I also set my 18Fet controller to +100A battery current and my 3T works good into a 20" rim.
Send more infos from your fan modding.

 

[unclejam]

well I just tried the motor and yep that third hall is no good.
motor chugged then one time didn't move. gave it a spin and it chugged again.
I must have broke it trying to pry it out.
I'll be replacing that one tomorrow.
At least I just have to pop one cover off.

Just fitted my new MXUS V2 4T and after hooking it up, there was a slight "chug" as Diggler's, then nothing, nada, nowt!
At first I wondered if I had the halls wiring correct, so tried some different combos but still no power.
Anyone confirm the wiring sequence for me please??
I have a Lyen 18 fet 4110 Infinion type.
Thanks guys

for the MXUS motors and a Lyen controller, Try this combo on BOTH HALLS & PHASES:

Blue-Blue
Green-Yellow
Yellow-Green

Ok guys - have wired this combo and my 4T is now working. BUT......
Performance seemed quite limited when I took a spin - I rode up a steep hill for maybe 200 yards on WOT and when I stopped to check the stock phase wires, they had partially melted the insulation and were hot enough to cook on!!
My system is 79v hot, with 60A max (Lyen 18 fet 4110 controller) and motor is in a 24" bike wheel with a 3" road tyre.
Obviously I need to upgrade these phase wires ASAP but acceleration was mediocre and I got maybe 25mph on the flat.
Disappointed to say the least but has anyone got a view on why performance was so poor??

 

[Allex]

You still have the wrong combination.

 

[unclejam]

Apparently not, I have had an email from Valentin at e4Bikes and he has confirmed it.
To quote him:

Sorry for late answer. We don't work with Lyen's Infineons and it took some time to find out the correct combination.

Halls:
Blue-Blue
Yellow-Green
Green-Yellow

Phases:
Blue-Blue
Yellow-Green
Green-Yellow

This should work.

 

[unclejam]

I assume that the sequence goes from controller to hub, I.e. Green wire from controller to Yellow wire from motor?
Sorry if I'm annoying everyone by being electrically illiterate!

 

[unclejam]

I've just re-read the conbo's and they are not the same after all

"Green-yellow" is NOT the same as "Yellow-green"

Ok, my bad, I'll try again........

 

[teslanv]

Actually, yellow to green and green to yellow is bi-directional. Controllers to motor there is only one possible way to connect in this pattern.
Or to put it another way, the blue wires match up, the yellow and green wires swap. :wink:

 

[unclejam]

Ok, so does this mean that reversing the yellow-green / green -yellow wires will make motor run backwards?

 

[Allex]

Here is a good guide:
http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Determining_the_Wiring_for_a_Brushless_Motor