Loud Currie Gear Reduction Motor

[DrkAngel]

"Motor" noise

Motor noise is attributable to multiple factors:

Currie motors - planetary gear reduction - eZip, iZip etc
Planetary gears = noticeable meshing noise, helical gears provide continuous contact reducing "noise", lubrication helps further
(Shifting cover when tightening gear reduction cover can tighten or loosen gear contact)
Bearing noise = negligible unless bearings damaged by tight chain or extreme wear
Chain noise = always a factor, reduced by a sprung idler sprocket or roller
Sprocket noise = very loud-rough, - badly aligned sprockets force a snagging or twisting as chain contacts sprocket

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't think it's any of those, because most are associated with wear, and this happened while the bike was static, indoors. I didn't touch the transmission cover. The chain is aligned, although I think it may be binding slightly where I had to close it (they ship the replacement chains with no master link, just a split link, the bastards) I picked up synthetic grease and 'form a gasket', to try repacking the motor. I'm going to, as a last resort, swap motors with the still-quiet (except for the crunchy motor side freewheel, which now seems to have a broken release spring as well) step-thru EZIP I've been riding. I'm also considering buying a previous-gen motor and repacking that with synthetic grease, just as an experiment.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Dang, that motor sprocket won't come off. Any tips? I have a new one, but would prefer not to sacrifice the OEM one.

 

[DrkAngel]

Success using 2 flat bladed screwdrivers, prying equally from both edges, has been reported.

Small gear puller as a final resort.
The flaring component of a pipe flaring tool looks about right, if you have one laying around?

Seems, pulling straight is better than prying one side at a time.

 

[gogo]

Success using 2 flat bladed screwdrivers, prying equally from both edges, has been reported.

Small gear puller as a final resort.
The flaring component of a pipe flaring tool looks about right, if you have one laying around?

Seems, pulling straight is better than prying one side at a time.

The auto parts stores that 'loan' tools will have a puller. You might be able take the motor there and use a tool in-store without a transaction?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Yikes. I'm talking about the nut! I guess that's only half the battle...

 

[DrkAngel]

Protect teeth with strip of leather or similar, hold with large pliers, channel lock pliers or vise etc.
Turn nut with wrench or socket .
If still mounted with chain, wedge block of wood between chain and gears ...

 

[LeftieBiker]

I tried thick cloth and a vise grip, but the nut won't move. Direction looks to be the usual, right? I guess I'll have to find a way to use two levers...

 

[LeftieBiker]

Oh, and thanks for the gear puller loan idea. I've actually used those, when I was much younger.

 

[gogo]

Yikes. I'm talking about the nut! I guess that's only half the battle...

Heh, I thought it sounded strange that the sprocket was the problem. My false assumption. An air or electric rotary impact wrench might be the tool of choice to get the nut off. Some penetrating oil might help, too.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think I came up with the optimum way to get the nut off. Place a thick shop cloth over the sprocket (with the motor lying sprocket up), leaving room to pull it back to expose the nut. Take a large pipe (aka "Monkey") wrench, and place it over the cloth-covered sprocket, positioned for a clockwise turn. Tighten the jaws by hand until you can't tighten them any more. Make sure that a sprocket tooth on each side is nestled into one of the little 'teeth' on the pipe wrench. Then just use a box wrench (13mm, IIRC) on the nut, and holding the pipe wrench in your right and the box wrench in your left hands, turn them toward each other. I think the nut on mine loosened from plain fear before I even started to turn, because it took little effort to loosen the nut.

Advance Auto Parts has a nice, well-reviewed three arm, 4" gear puller on sale for $19.95, marked down from $29.95. I bought one, and it looks like it should work well for the sprocket removal. I'll tackle that tomorrow.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Given that I appear to have two motors with bad bearings in the transmissions, does anyone know if the 250 watt version uses the same case and gears? The 250 can be acquired cheaply.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I believe I have the clanking noise in both my motors diagnosed. I had noticed, when one of them was apart, that the shaft with the big gear on it let the gear move a *lot* from side to side (or up/down when on the bench). I just discovered that when I treat the bike like it has a failing freewheel (my original thought) the noise will often stop. It appears very likely that the main gear and/or shaft has either lost a retaining clip on both bikes, or something has worn enough to make the gear slide side to side. Gentle engagement, often after several attempts, will tend to get the gears aligned, and when that happens, the noise is gone - until next time.

Has anyone here had something similar occur?

 

[DrkAngel]

I believe I have the clanking noise in both my motors diagnosed. I had noticed, when one of them was apart, that the shaft with the big gear on it let the gear move a *lot* from side to side (or up/down when on the bench). I just discovered that when I treat the bike like it has a failing freewheel (my original thought) the noise will often stop. It appears very likely that the main gear and/or shaft has either lost a retaining clip on both bikes, or something has worn enough to make the gear slide side to side. Gentle engagement, often after several attempts, will tend to get the gears aligned, and when that happens, the noise is gone - until next time.

Has anyone here had something similar occur?

Good news! ... ?
My 2008 Trailz (MY1018z) 8000+ miles just suffered something similar ... a bearing failure!
Shaft sprocket wiggles up/down forward/backward, while on bike.
Good(?) because I intend on tracking down replacement bearings!
Must disassemble so should be able to map components and assembly ...
Just got to pull apart, "caliper" for exact specs and start hunting ...
Will post up preliminary finds and final confirmed replacement.

Important to thoroughly clean all grease and fragments from gear reduction chamber, before reassembly re-lubrication!

Unfortunately ... I have never burnt up one of these motors ... or I could just swap the reduction gear, bearings and cover.

 

[dumbass]

I believe I have the clanking noise in both my motors diagnosed. I had noticed, when one of them was apart, that the shaft with the big gear on it let the gear move a *lot* from side to side (or up/down when on the bench). I just discovered that when I treat the bike like it has a failing freewheel (my original thought) the noise will often stop. It appears very likely that the main gear and/or shaft has either lost a retaining clip on both bikes, or something has worn enough to make the gear slide side to side. Gentle engagement, often after several attempts, will tend to get the gears aligned, and when that happens, the noise is gone - until next time.

Has anyone here had something similar occur?

Good news! ... ?
My 2008 Trailz (MY1018z) 8000+ miles just suffered something similar ... a bearing failure!
Shaft sprocket wiggles up/down forward/backward, while on bike.
Good(?) because I intend on tracking down replacement bearings!
Must disassemble so should be able to map components and assembly ...
Just got to pull apart, "caliper" for exact specs and start hunting ...
Will post up preliminary finds and final confirmed replacement.

Important to thoroughly clean all grease and fragments from gear reduction chamber, before reassembly re-lubrication!

Unfortunately ... I have never burnt up one of these motors ... or I could just swap the reduction gear, bearings and cover.

I bought all gearbox side bearings on EBay a few years ago. But never checked the motor side. I think I only paid a buck per bearing in lots of 10.

Bob

 

[LeftieBiker]

When you guys get the parts identified I'd appreciate if you post here. If it happened to *both* my bikes, with one of them bought second-hand, it must be a fairly common failure. My current bike (about to become the backup/snow bike) has actually improved more, in that I can usually get it to quiet down with several tries at engagement. Still, it's really annoying, and I have the brand new bike I acquired assembled and tested. Now I just need to swap and duplicate a host of accessories...

Do either of you know if the shaft is wandering "in" "out" or both ways? If the direction is right, I wonder if a magnet placed on the case might keep it in the right spot, by pulling on the big gear.

 

[DrkAngel]

Hoping to pull apart this weekend (MY1018z).
XYD-16 will be totally different, in-out, due to helical gearing.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If I already had the magnet I'd experiment, but with a fairly low likelihood of success I guess I'll just switch bikes and wait for a bearing source.

 

[dumbass]

I have an appointment this morning but if I remember when I get home I'll look up the numbers of the bearings I bought. I have both the inner and outer gearbox bearings. While I have 5 450w Currie motors they are from 3 different manufactures. But the bears were the same in all of them. Note; a failed bearing can cause the shaft to move up/down and/or in/out. However, if after replacing the bearing the shaft continues to move in/out then you need to add a thin shim inside the gearbox to eliminate the movement. Caution when disassembling the gearbox to prevent damage to the paper like seal. If you damage it I have found that making a new one from an OJ carton workers quite well. BTW, there is no key or anything on the internal motor shaft gear. The gear is machined directly onto the motor shaft. Only the large internal mating gear has a woodruff key nod the shaft. Be alert to any thin shims that are in the motor and their positioning so you reassemble the gearbox the way it was.

OPPs!

OK, I had time before sending this and got the bearing numbers. Please note that bearings come in different styles of the same size (shielded, open face and sealed). I recommend using a shielded inner bearing and a sealed outer bearing.

Inner bearing # 608Z. This is a shelled bearing both side

Outer bearing # 6001-ZZ/C3. This is a shielded bearing both sides

Outer bearing # 6001-RZ. This is a sealed bearing both sides

All bearings were bought on EBay of a buck or so each. .

Again please note the actual bearing number is the first 3 or 4 numbers and the letters mainly identify the type of seal.

Hope this helps someone.

Bob

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks for the info! Have you replaced the bearings on the bevel-geared motor, or just the straight-cut version?

 

[dumbass]

Thanks for the info! Have you replaced the bearings on the bevel-geared motor, or just the straight-cut version?

My motors are all the old style srraight geared motors.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks for the info! Have you replaced the bearings on the bevel-geared motor, or just the straight-cut version?

My motors are all the old style srraight geared motors.

I think I'll wait for someone else to go first on the newer motors, then.

 

[DrkAngel]

Good news! ... ?
My 2008 Trailz (MY1018z) 8000+ miles just suffered something similar ... a bearing failure!
Shaft sprocket wiggles up/down forward/backward, while on bike.
Good(?) because I intend on tracking down replacement bearings!
Must disassemble so should be able to map components and assembly ...
Just got to pull apart, "caliper" for exact specs and start hunting ...
Will post up preliminary finds and final confirmed replacement.

Important to thoroughly clean all grease and fragments from gear reduction chamber, before reassembly re-lubrication!

Unfortunately ... I have never burnt up one of these motors ... or I could just swap the reduction gear, bearings and cover.

Swapped motor with bad bearings for other used.
Greased and tightened wheel bearings.
Replaced 16T freewheel with new, 5000+ miles added a bit of wear.
Bike is ready till 10,000 mile mark?

8000+ miles for the motor, with scheduled lubrication, seems acceptable durability-lifespan ...
Will check brush wear and motor bearings also!

Will clean, disassemble and inspect motor today.
Will evaluate and decide on type of bearing.
Since I lubricate gearbox every 1000 miles or so, I might replace with non-sealed bearings, might last longer!

I have a good quality digital caliper so I will try to confirm 12mm x 28mm x 8mm bearing size.

 

[DrkAngel]

2013 eZip LS (couple thousand miles) is displaying a bit of drivetrain ... oddness?
Wheel or motor bearing or ... ?
If the rain continues, I might have a chance to disassemble and diagnose.
Has the XYD helically geared motor, so might have that apart to compare and lube, today also.

 

[dumbass]

I would highly recommend using a sealed bearing on the outer side. It helps prevent water and dirt getting in and hot thinned grease from getting out.

Bob