Quadcopter Build

Another reason I use the bigger motors, they have the bigger shafts, I once went full throttle into a power line, It flipped over I proceeded to hit full throttle to hope it would correct it self, Went hi speed into the road, I only broke props...

Comparing to the 1450kv smaller motors with I think 3 mm shaft, I flew them once into a fence and the bell popped right off and the shaft cracked near the circlip. I am not sure if the shaft had to much carbon content and over hardened...
And again, Comparing the orange turnigy to the very cheap blue brushless motors from hobbyking, those shafts were not hard enough, A small crash bent all 3 motors...

the 35xx motors
They also have that extra head room with watts, if you don't have perfectly balance props, there might be more strain which will cause it to over heat more. I do find most of the time a 2 of the motors are warmer than the rest, even with balanced props.
 
I have never over heated the motor to a point where it is smoking.
I never really tested the 22/28mm motors at full throttle for long duty. At the time I only had those motors when I started playing with this stuff and didn't wana break it lol
 
I like this one

$216 + $2 shipping and you need radio + FC


http://www.rctimer.com/product-1149.html

"Alien Copter have released their premiere FPV frame, the BEE. The first thing that stands out and sets this frame apart from any other in its class is it true 100% real multilayer carbon construction, folding capabilities and vibration isolation system.
The Bee is a 470mm class H frame design that is optimized for FPV flight with a forward platform for HD cams & FPV gear and a rear platform for ample battery and CG adjustment. One of the key features is the Clean-N-Dirty system that uses vibration mounts to isolate the sensitive electronics and cameras from vibration on a rigged upper sub-frame. The lower frame supports the super strong 12 layer 5mm motor arms, that also have quick release thumb screws to allow the arms to fold for portability. This Kit also included the Alien Copter PDB (power distribution board) that has built in 5V and 12V filtered BEC system for your FC and FPV gear and has an Alien blue LED ring that glows when powered.

There are lots of FPV H frames on the market and each have their unique features, the Bee incorporates them all in a top level product that is unmatched in construction and strength

Package list:

1 Set ACC-BEE 470mm frame
4 pcs 2212/920KV (self tightening)
4 pairs Carbon Fiber 9.4x4.3" (self tightening)
4 pcs 30A (NFS301)
1 PDB with BEC and LED

Recommend:

Battery: 2200mah–5200mah

Take Off Weight: <= 1.3kg

Flight Time: 12-18 Mins
"
 

Attachments

  • notbad.jpg
    notbad.jpg
    78.2 KB · Views: 2,619
So, I put some numbers in the eCalc website and came up with some disparate results, perhaps.

Since you are a pro, Nechaus, please look over this for me, if you have the time.

I ran this twice, once with the 3530, and the second with the 2830. Do you see the huge difference in run time? (20 min vs 13.7 min)

Also, the payload is not that much lower with the 2830....

Am I missing something??

3530:

3530 Build Calc by deanwvu, on Flickr


2830:

2830 Build Calc by deanwvu, on Flickr
 
nechaus said:
... You end up using a multiwii system, you do not enable fail safe so if signal is lost, It will not land or cutout..
...
Click to expand...
would you mind sharing your tips for failsafe setup? i'm not sure that i really understood what to do. afaik failsafe should take care of your copter in case the signal connection is lost between the copter and the remote. correct?
so the copter has to know that
a) the connection is lost
b) what to do next
i thought that it would be safe to activate RETURN TO HOME if you got gps activated. i'm not sure how to do it, but i will try to google it.
.) keeping the position is not safe because as soon as the battery is empty the copter will fall from the sky.
.) slowly descending is a good idea, but only if the the place below the copter is suitable for landing (eg. NOT water, highway, people etc ...)
so what else do you have to keep in mind?
there is a THROTTLE CUT switch on my 9xr. i guess it should do what it says: cut the throttle completely once you realize that a crash is inevitable and rotating props would cause additional damage (to ppl maybe)
 
Deanwvu said:
So, I put some numbers in the eCalc website and came up with some disparate results, perhaps.

Since you are a pro, Nechaus, please look over this for me, if you have the time.

I ran this twice, once with the 3530, and the second with the 2830. Do you see the huge difference in run time? (20 min vs 13.7 min)

Also, the payload is not that much lower with the 2830....

Am I missing something??

3530:

3530 Build Calc by deanwvu, on Flickr


2830:

2830 Build Calc by deanwvu, on Flickr
Click to expand...


That is probably right, I dunno man, Its upto you. Its more of a personal preference with me choosing the 3530 1100kv, I just like them for the abuse i have given them.. I just had bad experiences with the smaller ones, I reckon 1000kv 35xx size wouild be good, but up to you, either way you go, its a hex so it will perform well. not to mention there is a bit of a price difference i believe last time i checked, your probably better getting the 28xx and save some money, worst case you break one you can revert back to a quad.. :D
 
izeman said:
nechaus said:
... You end up using a multiwii system, you do not enable fail safe so if signal is lost, It will not land or cutout..
...
Click to expand...
would you mind sharing your tips for failsafe setup? i'm not sure that i really understood what to do. afaik failsafe should take care of your copter in case the signal connection is lost between the copter and the remote. correct?
so the copter has to know that
a) the connection is lost
b) what to do next
i thought that it would be safe to activate RETURN TO HOME if you got gps activated. i'm not sure how to do it, but i will try to google it.
.) keeping the position is not safe because as soon as the battery is empty the copter will fall from the sky.
.) slowly descending is a good idea, but only if the the place below the copter is suitable for landing (eg. NOT water, highway, people etc ...)
so what else do you have to keep in mind?
there is a THROTTLE CUT switch on my 9xr. i guess it should do what it says: cut the throttle completely once you realize that a crash is inevitable and rotating props would cause additional damage (to ppl maybe)
Click to expand...


Okay you need to enable this in the config.h
/******** Failsafe settings ********************/
/* Failsafe check pulses on four main control channels CH1-CH4. If the pulse is missing or bellow 985us (on any of these four channels)
the failsafe procedure is initiated. After FAILSAFE_DELAY time from failsafe detection, the level mode is on (if ACC or nunchuk is avaliable),
PITCH, ROLL and YAW is centered and THROTTLE is set to FAILSAFE_THROTTLE value. You must set this value to descending about 1m/s or so
for best results. This value is depended from your configuration, AUW and some other params. Next, after FAILSAFE_OFF_DELAY the copter is disarmed,
and motors is stopped. If RC pulse coming back before reached FAILSAFE_OFF_DELAY time, after the small quard time the RC control is returned to normal. */
>>>here>>> define this one #define FAILSAFE // uncomment to activate the failsafe function
>>>How many seconds for it to activate #define FAILSAFE_DELAY 10 // Guard time for failsafe activation after signal lost. 1 step = 0.1sec - 1sec in example
#define FAILSAFE_OFF_DELAY 200 // Time for Landing before motors stop in 0.1sec. 1 step = 0.1sec - 20sec in example
>>>failsafe throttle>>> #define FAILSAFE_THROTTLE (MINTHROTTLE + 200) // (*) Throttle level used for landing - may be relative to MINTHROTTLE - as in this case

#define FAILSAFE_DETECT_TRESHOLD 985
 
The multiwii fail safe is simple, If you loose connection after a given time, the flight controller will set the throttle to low power or what ever you set it to.
Because multiwii is developed open source, there is some disputes with having RTL as a fail safe, so atm there is no such feature, only with the more developed software like ardupilot/naza ect..


I think in multiwii 2.4 it will have all of these features... But basically you want to enable the standard failesafe in your code... And then test it, Arm your copter, give it very little throttle, proceed to turn off transmitter and wait for the amount of time you set for the failsafe to kick in. you should see it go to the throttle level you set...


I like to have about 10 seconds, flying fpv, you know when you loose signal, and 10 seconds is a good amount of time to move your transmitter to try and regain signal..
But set it to what ever you like..become familiar with it.


if your flying in large fields all the time, it would't hurt to have a fail safe set to 15 or 20 seconds if you are flying 3rd person view, I once remember running towards my quad after flying around the cell tower near my house, it killed the signal, but i did regain signal after running about 20 meters and flicked RTL on and when it was close enough i took over manual control.
 
ok. thanks. so i already got it. i was hoping for more. i checked the FAILSAFE options in config.h already. but i didn't realize that this was all there is. just slow decending is better than flying away, or do nothing, but it can be quite dangerous as well.
i hope for some more features in 2.4 already - even if i haven't flew for a second :)
 
opentx came out these days, so i flashed it to my frsky modded 9xr. absolutely nice. telemetry is working. all i need now is the max3232 chip to convert multiwii board levels to frsky d8r receiver and i should have other telemetry transmitted additional to voltage as it's now.
i guess i will remove the oled osd as it has limited values as of now and makes it more complex at the moment. i think i will need to get things done to make it fly and then take care of the other stuff. bt 2.0 for android and bt 4.0 for iphone is working fine anyway so i can reprogram it with my phone. gps is working as well.
now i need to find out how to program all the switches on my remote to to what i would like and understand the different modes multiwii offers. like BARO and HORIZON, HEADLESS and stuff and program it to the correct switches so i can activate it during flight.
 
izeman said:
opentx came out these days, so i flashed it to my frsky modded 9xr. absolutely nice. telemetry is working. all i need now is the max3232 chip to convert multiwii board levels to frsky d8r receiver and i should have other telemetry transmitted additional to voltage as it's now.
i guess i will remove the oled osd as it has limited values as of now and makes it more complex at the moment. i think i will need to get things done to make it fly and then take care of the other stuff. bt 2.0 for android and bt 4.0 for iphone is working fine anyway so i can reprogram it with my phone. gps is working as well.
now i need to find out how to program all the switches on my remote to to what i would like and understand the different modes multiwii offers. like BARO and HORIZON, HEADLESS and stuff and program it to the correct switches so i can activate it during flight.
Click to expand...


So from the receiver, You have now roll pitch yaw and throttle plugged in..
you just need one or a couple of the AUX 1/2/3/4 plugged in to receiver... and you should be able to see in the GUI that one of the AUX activate when you flick a switch that corrosponds to that channel.. then on that AUX line, you can set that to be used for RTL-BARO ect..

I hope that makes sense, Im not the best at explaining things
 
Deanwvu said:
Nechaus,


/??
Can you provide your opinion of the plusses and minuses of MultiWii vs. Arducopter for controllers??
Click to expand...


Multiwii
Pro's
-Reliable
-Can cost as low as $20 for a board with basic features like Stable mode BARO-HEADSFREE
-Superior on the acrobatic side I believe, ( there is software out there for 3d multiwii, Basically allows you to reverse the engines mid flight)
-If your a programmer you will probably like it because you can really dig deep and change heaps.
-Open source, lots of support except it is scattered all around the place which is annoying..
-you can add all sorts of sensors, sonar, optical flow ect..
-Boards like the Multiwii PRO have the mega2560 Can run Megapirateng/ardupilot software that is ported over to run on the board, I believe some board from RC timer are displayed as Ardupilot boards but are pretty much the same as the HK mutliwii pro
Cons
-Slower development compared to other software
- pretty much all diy
-board generally have less memory and they typically use cheaper components.. not saying that is bad tho.

Ardupilot..
-Feature Rich
-More fails safes to choose from as well as fail safe if you are flying mission and lose gps signal, you can set it to land or do what ever...
-Great autonomous capabilities ( auto take off, slow auto landing, Point of interest, flip button can be setup, auto pid tunning, virtual geo fence, multiwii has similar to the geo fence but it only works when missions are activated, and thats with multiwii Beta 2.3
-great list of additional sensors that can be easily attached like sonar and optical flow, Multiwii is maybe a little less intuitive to get this working well.
-runs on 32 bit controllers, looks like most people will eventually head down this path ( wonder how long it will be before we are strapping in an INTEL)
-Most of the ardupilot kits will come with a telemetry connection/mavlink, Basically a wireless connection to your computer, You will never loose your copter if you crash it somewhere and it still has power running though it as you will be able to track it via mission planner, similar can be done with multiwii bluetooth, but the ardupilot has a much better connection like 433-1200mhz radio and you can use other antennas to improve the range greatly..
-Probably better if you only intend on making videos
Cons
-cost more, Typical price starts at around $150+




Just need to find out why you want to use it... aerial video/fpv is great using multiwii gimbal gopro, you will get some great footage...
if you want to use some expensive cameras you may as well go all the way and buy the arducopter system

At the end of the day, I rarely use the return to home or gps hold feature, was fun to play around with tho, I generally fly in stable/horizon mode.. and sometimes will use gps hold if I want to take goggle's off to scratch my head or something or go from first person to normal view/3rd person is it called ?.. Altitude hold is also good for racing around trying to keep the same altitude as your friends so you can see them...
I guess when I started I was using more of these features now tend to use manual flight...
Some people want a hovering camera platform, Id go with ardupilot




they are both opensource... i keep on making that mistake.
 
if your like me, Multiwii has been a solid start point, I think for a first multirotor its not a bad choice at all... I found it easy to troubleshoot as well..
But do some reading , work out your budget.. see what you can come up with. rctimer.com is great cheaper than hobbyking with some things...motors and esc's are generally cheaper and shipping can be $2
 
i didn't want to wait anymore for the reamer and drilled the propellers to 8mm and mounted them. i checked motor rotation (before mounting), and installed the props at the correct position.
starting the quad worked fine, but upping the throttle made the quad flip immediately. i didn't take care to connect the escs to the correct multiwii's a-port. after i corrected that i could take off. but it was all jumping around. no stable flight. i crashed several times into bushes and the grass. i didn't exceed 2m of flight height, and made a common error i reduce throttle every time the quad goes down and wants to crash into the ground. this of course makes it fall to the ground immediately ;)
i don't have any modes activated. so i may need to do this. if i activate ANGLE i can't notice any difference in flying. BARO works somehow, but as well known the baro is quite coarse and the quad can't really hold it's height.
now: what do i need to do to have the quad stand in the air stable? how do i trim it? on the remote? or is this a seperate mode?
or is this even impossible as the props are not balanced and maybe a bit out of center?
i also found out that after i program it with escs calibrated arming the quad makes the props turn at 1064. if i hit the WRITE button on multiwii-conf the throttle needs to be moved over the middle position (1500) to make the props turn and they turn quite uneven.
 
izeman said:
i didn't want to wait anymore for the reamer and drilled the propellers to 8mm and mounted them. i checked motor rotation (before mounting), and installed the props at the correct position.
starting the quad worked fine, but upping the throttle made the quad flip immediately. i didn't take care to connect the escs to the correct multiwii's a-port. after i corrected that i could take off. but it was all jumping around. no stable flight. i crashed several times into bushes and the grass. i didn't exceed 2m of flight height, and made a common error i reduce throttle every time the quad goes down and wants to crash into the ground. this of course makes it fall to the ground immediately ;)
i don't have any modes activated. so i may need to do this. if i activate ANGLE i can't notice any difference in flying. BARO works somehow, but as well known the baro is quite coarse and the quad can't really hold it's height.
now: what do i need to do to have the quad stand in the air stable? how do i trim it? on the remote? or is this a seperate mode?
or is this even impossible as the props are not balanced and maybe a bit out of center?
i also found out that after i program it with escs calibrated arming the quad makes the props turn at 1064. if i hit the WRITE button on multiwii-conf the throttle needs to be moved over the middle position (1500) to make the props turn and they turn quite uneven.
Click to expand...



okay when you fly in no modes checked, that is acrobatic mode, you need to fly in level or horizon mode if you want it to auto stable..
Now make sure all yaw roll pitch are set to 1500.. check via gui


You can also trim the copter which is separate to the transmitter trim... You do this by..
-1 disarm
-2 Put throttle position to full i think it needs to hit 1900
-3 using pitch or roll stick, move the stick to the direction you need to trim, hold for 3 seconds, you should see a little light flash to confirm this.. Doing this is one click. so if you might need to do this quite a bit...
(note, when you calibrate acc, you are wiping copter trim)

but get it flying in level first and see how she is, if you calibrated on a level surface it should be pretty decent
 
I see I see... sorry man..


This is what you should do if you get a chance..

Sit quadcopter inside...
power it on, Arm it.

Stand behind quadcopter...( do this so you know orientation)
- Apply small throttle... not enough to fly, just enough for it to spin a bit faster than arm speed ( dont worry if one motor spins faster, just dont give enough power to fly)
- Proceed with A small pitch foward, you should be able to get the back to lift up ( more like a jerk/hop movement)
-Pitch backwards, Front should lift up
-Roll right, Left should lift up
-Roll Left, Right should lift up...

Do this all in angle mode

If this works, she is good to fly.
 
What do you mean not stable?
Oscillating ? is it twitching?
Or is it drifting alot?


You can only take off in the following modes.. angle/acro/horizon/mag/headsfree ( only use mag if you have it calibrated, but dont turn it on just yet, fly in level/horizon/acro first until she is running)
dont activate the other modes until you are flying, you cannot take off with baro, gps hold, gps home, ect..


-Acro mode means you pitch forward, let go of sticks, copter will stay what ever angle its currently @ e.g. keep flying forward.

-Angle mode is stable mode, it will always auto level, You pitch forward, it will go forward, the moment you let go of sticks it will level out again. ( I only used this mode when i was learning)

-Horizon mode is acro/angle mode, small stick movements and it will behave just like angle mode, when you push sticks heaps it will behave like acro mode but will auto level when sticks are left
 
nechaus said:
I see I see... sorry man..


This is what you should do if you get a chance..

Sit quadcopter inside...
power it on, Arm it.

Stand behind quadcopter...( do this so you know orientation)
- Apply small throttle... not enough to fly, just enough for it to spin a bit faster than arm speed ( dont worry if one motor spins faster, just dont give enough power to fly)
- Proceed with A small pitch foward, you should be able to get the back to lift up ( more like a jerk/hop movement)
-Pitch backwards, Front should lift up
-Roll right, Left should lift up
-Roll Left, Right should lift up...

Do this all in angle mode

If this works, she is good to fly.
Click to expand...


Do this in angle mode, no other mode... i forgot to mention
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

G
    • Like
eMTB with Custom Build Drive Kit
Replies
12
Views
48,157
gkasev
G
dozentrio
Mid-Drive Folding Ebike Build
Replies
3
Views
1,186
Chambers
Chambers
G
Newbie Longboard Build + Questions
Replies
5
Views
1,210
rmrf
R
MonkeyWrench
Carbon Cyclocross Drop Bar Commuter Q100C
Replies
14
Views
3,222
ScooterMan101
S
N
New Build parts list
Replies
8
Views
1,206
torqueboards
T
Back
Top