recumpence
1 GW
OK, progress is being made!
Power up is done at zero throttle. That is the way I have the ESC programmed.
Matt
Power up is done at zero throttle. That is the way I have the ESC programmed.
Matt
Schwinn/32 10 Build Conclusions
- Thread starter SoSauty
- Start date
Talked with Castle Creations again. Interesting, if you disconnect the wires, turn the motor by hand and note the resistance, then connect 2 motor wires, turn and note the resistance again, then plug the 3rd and turn by hand, one should note a slighty increased resistance. Anyway, the HV160 is on vacation to Castle Creations. I'm sure I did something arcane to do it in.
The techs at Castle have been really helpful, just as Matt, Ypedal and other folks here have been. I was sorta confident that ESphere would there when a noob such as myself tackled this sort of bike build with minimal background for doing so. My confidence in getting help from ES has risen to 100%
Besides, come March I'll be riding and refining a lite-weight just for fun RC racer.
There is a week of 60F/16C degree hi forcast and it beinng mid January! Guess I'll catch up yardwork, go over the wiring in detail again, and finish a few tiny tidbits to be ready when the HV160 returns. Will resurrect this thread in February
Castle turned around the HV160 7 days including a 3 day weekend (wow) and reset the LVC at 38.4V. Here's what's checked:
0 Castle Creations has triple tested this controller, LVC set @38.4V,
1 fully charged the Lipos to 50+volts,
2 50V reading at 20ga power wires leading into BEC/interface,
3 continuity from batt connector across shunt to input wires of ESC,
4 49.6V reading from input wires to ESC,
5 ESC blinks when powered, no chirp,
6 continuity across connectors to motor, no motor response,
7 motor provides slight increase resistance when connected/turned by hand,
8 throttle provides 2 to 5volts depending on which pair wires from throttle,
9 CA boots and provides 50.1V data read out,
??
What else can I check? (ordered the USB link/card from Castle, will turn the LVC off when program stuff arrives)
Kudos to Matt for shipping ASAP a 2nd throttle interface to test
The techs at Castle have been really helpful, just as Matt, Ypedal and other folks here have been. I was sorta confident that ESphere would there when a noob such as myself tackled this sort of bike build with minimal background for doing so. My confidence in getting help from ES has risen to 100%
Besides, come March I'll be riding and refining a lite-weight just for fun RC racer.There is a week of 60F/16C degree hi forcast and it beinng mid January! Guess I'll catch up yardwork, go over the wiring in detail again, and finish a few tiny tidbits to be ready when the HV160 returns. Will resurrect this thread in February
Castle turned around the HV160 7 days including a 3 day weekend (wow) and reset the LVC at 38.4V. Here's what's checked:
0 Castle Creations has triple tested this controller, LVC set @38.4V,
1 fully charged the Lipos to 50+volts,
2 50V reading at 20ga power wires leading into BEC/interface,
3 continuity from batt connector across shunt to input wires of ESC,
4 49.6V reading from input wires to ESC,
5 ESC blinks when powered, no chirp,
6 continuity across connectors to motor, no motor response,
7 motor provides slight increase resistance when connected/turned by hand,
8 throttle provides 2 to 5volts depending on which pair wires from throttle,
9 CA boots and provides 50.1V data read out,
??
What else can I check? (ordered the USB link/card from Castle, will turn the LVC off when program stuff arrives)
Kudos to Matt for shipping ASAP a 2nd throttle interface to test
TopCat
100 W
Damn! This build was going so well, I was looking forward to seeing this beauty whizzing along the street. That bloody spanner just had to show up and spoil everything
Until your HV160 returns from its hols check all your solder wiring and connections - (go over it with a fine toothed comb) which you've probably done already.
Fingers crossed all goes well once the HV160 returns.
Regards
Tom
Until your HV160 returns from its hols check all your solder wiring and connections - (go over it with a fine toothed comb) which you've probably done already.
Fingers crossed all goes well once the HV160 returns.
Regards
Tom
January
I put heat shrink on each red motor wire, then bundled 'em, placed a larger heat shrink around the bundle of 3 and placed 'em aside. The red wires are effectively insulated from each other. I thought 6 wires were for Delta and Wye only needed 3. A simple assumption in a blind spot when trouble shooting. A case of picture/diagram being worth a thousand words. Oowch, kicking myself.
http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/rc_drive/tutorial.htm
Warren, your wiring diagram for 'Wye' sure cleared a BIG electrical issue for me.
The local techs asked about the wires and had to assume I knew what I was talking about. Geez, it's late and have a 7:45am class. I wonder if this is what has myself and everyone stumped, ?ya think? Will I be testing and riding tomorrow
Yes wonderous little chirp and a fast rear wheel
February
Jeeesh
I put heat shrink on each red motor wire, then bundled 'em, placed a larger heat shrink around the bundle of 3 and placed 'em aside. The red wires are effectively insulated from each other. I thought 6 wires were for Delta and Wye only needed 3. A simple assumption in a blind spot when trouble shooting. A case of picture/diagram being worth a thousand words. Oowch, kicking myself.http://www.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/rc_drive/tutorial.htm
Warren, your wiring diagram for 'Wye' sure cleared a BIG electrical issue for me.
The local techs asked about the wires and had to assume I knew what I was talking about. Geez, it's late and have a 7:45am class. I wonder if this is what has myself and everyone stumped, ?ya think? Will I be testing and riding tomorrow
Yes wonderous little chirp and a fast rear wheel
recumpence
1 GW
Yup, you figured it out!
That will get you running for sure.
Matt
That will get you running for sure.
Matt
www.recumbents.com
10 kW
Happy to help!
I'll let the RC tutorial fester for a little longer buried in the bike build thread while I wait for feedback, then post it as a standalone.
Thanks,
-Warren.
I'll let the RC tutorial fester for a little longer buried in the bike build thread while I wait for feedback, then post it as a standalone.
Thanks,
-Warren.
Warren, check the stickies for E-Bike Non-hub Motor Drives 
Grabbed my flannel shirt and helmet for 1st ride (how's the weather where you're at ). I'm grinning, probably wake up tomorrow with this grin.
First, pedalled the bike. Rolls as easy as my cute/motored powered commuter, even with the heavy White Ind. Eno. Then powered up, clutch slipped a little. Stopped at my drive, tightened the clutch 1/12th round, pedalled up to 6mph, motor stuttered just a bit while slow then glided up to 33mph, man does it roll smooth Expected some noise yet actually the chain sorta drowned out the motor/belt/clutch. I'd say the direct/drive hubs are near silent, the geared motors have a purr, and the RC is audible growl not noisy. Turned the corner at 15mph and saw 33mph in about 200ft/70yd/65m when low gearing ran out; power left for enhanced top end performance.
A little further down 3 kids rode their bikes right out in front of me. The brakes, both back and front stop faster than any bike I've ever owned After passing thru the threesome one of 'em called out, "Hey, what is that man?".
I saw 2100Watts while accelerating yet settled down to 1400Watts at 33mph. If tall gearing were in place maybe 37mph at 1800Watts and 40mph at 2300Watts. It levels off at 33mph fairly abrubtly, just as Kv x volts x 85% indicates (135 x 44 x .85).
Only a 1.5 mile spin, yet could just keep my fingers on the motor, if pressed likely a little burn, very rough estimate of 125f. The issue of heat is there, not used to an RC setup where the power can outpace heat dissapation. Very curious about tall gearing and the benefits of heat sinking.
Guess the real work is about to begin. May break in the Lipos in the am. A looming problem is that the chain is breaking in so it's time for a tensioner, yet soon I hope to mount the motor below the BB so the tensioner will need to be relocated; anyone know of a way to mount a tensionser without welding/brazing to the bike frame
I'm going to buy 14 more Lipo's or 10 Lipo's & video cam.
(Still grinning The slipper clutch is awesome, works without giving it a thought. Snuck around the neighborhood just now, yep, 33mph motor only, 35mph w/ pedalling. There's more ummphh acceleration but the feeling is brief. Only see about 2200Watts for a sec, then the load drops back to 1400Watts @32mph; 1200Watts & 34mph if I pedal 
Y-pedal believes there's 40mph, faster if talking 'burst speed' in the 3210. The motor temp peaked around 137f though with my low gearing (for street) the little Astro sure isn't loading much. It'll be weeks, but sure Tom, this 'toy racer' will evolve; some refined data is forthcoming, a few pics, and eventually, tada the video!
What to do getting the CA speedo fully operational? The speed sensors on the front wheel appear aligned.)
Grabbed my flannel shirt and helmet for 1st ride (how's the weather where you're at
). I'm grinning, probably wake up tomorrow with this grin.First, pedalled the bike. Rolls as easy as my cute/motored powered commuter, even with the heavy White Ind. Eno. Then powered up, clutch slipped a little. Stopped at my drive, tightened the clutch 1/12th round, pedalled up to 6mph, motor stuttered just a bit while slow then glided up to 33mph, man does it roll smooth
Expected some noise yet actually the chain sorta drowned out the motor/belt/clutch. I'd say the direct/drive hubs are near silent, the geared motors have a purr, and the RC is audible growl not noisy. Turned the corner at 15mph and saw 33mph in about 200ft/70yd/65m when low gearing ran out; power left for enhanced top end performance.A little further down 3 kids rode their bikes right out in front of me. The brakes, both back and front stop faster than any bike I've ever owned
After passing thru the threesome one of 'em called out, "Hey, what is that man?".I saw 2100Watts while accelerating yet settled down to 1400Watts at 33mph. If tall gearing were in place maybe 37mph at 1800Watts and 40mph at 2300Watts. It levels off at 33mph fairly abrubtly, just as Kv x volts x 85% indicates (135 x 44 x .85).
Only a 1.5 mile spin, yet could just keep my fingers on the motor, if pressed likely a little burn, very rough estimate of 125f. The issue of heat is there, not used to an RC setup where the power can outpace heat dissapation. Very curious about tall gearing and the benefits of heat sinking.
Guess the real work is about to begin. May break in the Lipos in the am. A looming problem is that the chain is breaking in so it's time for a tensioner, yet soon I hope to mount the motor below the BB so the tensioner will need to be relocated; anyone know of a way to mount a tensionser without welding/brazing to the bike frame
I'm going to buy 14 more Lipo's or 10 Lipo's & video cam.
(Still grinning
The slipper clutch is awesome, works without giving it a thought. Snuck around the neighborhood just now, yep, 33mph motor only, 35mph w/ pedalling. There's more ummphh acceleration but the feeling is brief. Only see about 2200Watts for a sec, then the load drops back to 1400Watts @32mph; 1200Watts & 34mph if I pedal Y-pedal believes there's 40mph, faster if talking 'burst speed' in the 3210. The motor temp peaked around 137f though with my low gearing (for street) the little Astro sure isn't loading much. It'll be weeks, but sure Tom, this 'toy racer' will evolve; some refined data is forthcoming, a few pics, and eventually, tada the video!What to do getting the CA speedo fully operational? The speed sensors on the front wheel appear aligned.)
TopCat
100 W
Good to hear you have her up and running Will but you forgot a couple of things?
Pictures & Video
Regards
Tom
Pictures & Video
Regards
Tom
This morning's ride was too short, about 200yds/meters So anticipating the 41mph run with fresh batt charge, 17T freewheel, an' 39T rear sprocket Sun was peaking up, the side small business road was empty pedalled 10mph, rolled on throttle, easy acceleration, rolling 30+mph, caught a glimpse of 3200W or perhaps 3700W, then power loss. CA stated 52.7kph top speed, 172.9 top Amps what and I'm dead again.
(hopefully it's the stock CA 45amp shunt).
Wife says, "I'm glad you're still excited about your bike!" Think I'm making every gufaw a guy that's built 3 hubby-bikes and earned a C in hi-school electricity class, can make. Warren probably reads my thread, then heads back to edit/add to his most excellent tutorial page 8)
So anticipating the 41mph run with fresh batt charge, 17T freewheel, an' 39T rear sprocket Sun was peaking up, the side small business road was empty pedalled 10mph, rolled on throttle, easy acceleration, rolling 30+mph, caught a glimpse of 3200W or perhaps 3700W, then power loss. CA stated 52.7kph top speed, 172.9 top Amps what and I'm dead again.Hey Matt, Y-pedal, experts, what'd I blow
(hopefully it's the stock CA 45amp shunt).Wife says, "I'm glad you're still excited about your bike!" Think I'm making every gufaw a guy that's built 3 hubby-bikes and earned a C in hi-school electricity class, can make. Warren probably reads my thread, then heads back to edit/add to his most excellent tutorial page 8)
lmao.... welcome to RC !
I've done the walk of shame back to the driveway half a dozen times before actually making it back home with power.. you are not alone !
Did the power cut out, and stay out, or does it all reset once you let off the throttle and go back on ?... if you disconect the battery and plug the battery back in does it start working again ?
It's either a LVC ( low voltage cutoff ) .. something fried.. or something came loose...
I've done the walk of shame back to the driveway half a dozen times before actually making it back home with power.. you are not alone !
Did the power cut out, and stay out, or does it all reset once you let off the throttle and go back on ?... if you disconect the battery and plug the battery back in does it start working again ?
It's either a LVC ( low voltage cutoff ) .. something fried.. or something came loose...
Hahaha,
Power just faded off. When reapplying throttle, the motor tries to turn, sorta takes the slack out of chain, engages the FW, then nothin'. Did unplug and replug, does the same feeble motor turn, the ESC gives off some new soft sounds with the red led blinking.
It's been a while Y-pedal, as we say from down south, howdy!
Power just faded off. When reapplying throttle, the motor tries to turn, sorta takes the slack out of chain, engages the FW, then nothin'. Did unplug and replug, does the same feeble motor turn, the ESC gives off some new soft sounds with the red led blinking.
It's been a while Y-pedal, as we say from down south, howdy!
StudEbiker
100 kW
That is an awesome bike. 
quote " the ESC gives off some new soft sounds with the red led blinking "
can you be more specific ?
( carefully.. watch your fingers.. ) can you manually spin the motor ? ( using the larger belt pulley ) ? is the drive locked up for some reason ?
If you apply throttle , slowly..... while turning it over.. will it start ?
any obvious stink from the controller ? .. .you know " that " smell .. ?
can you be more specific ?
( carefully.. watch your fingers.. ) can you manually spin the motor ? ( using the larger belt pulley ) ? is the drive locked up for some reason ?
If you apply throttle , slowly..... while turning it over.. will it start ?
any obvious stink from the controller ? .. .you know " that " smell .. ?
There's no smell from the ESC now, didn't smell anything at the time, no smoke. When I apply throttle the CA measures a watt useage, the motor takes up slack, and the ESC then has a soft chirp chirp chirp. . . or more of a beep/chirp, a cheep, cheep, cheep. . .; sounds as a squeaky bearing but nothing spinning and emitts from the controller. Same when turning the pulley belt by hand. The white light becomes red with throttle on. The motor relaxes back a tad, ESC is quiet w/ white light when throttle returned to off.
And CA reads 48.6V throttle off, 48.0V throttle on.
Opps, just noticed and verified that the ESC no longer gives the 'arming up chirp' when power is plugged in.
And CA reads 48.6V throttle off, 48.0V throttle on.
Opps, just noticed and verified that the ESC no longer gives the 'arming up chirp' when power is plugged in.
recumpence
1 GW
That sounds very weird. I have never heard of a ESC blowing in that manor. Are all 3 motor wires connected? Are the red wires positively connected to each other?
Hmm, is the red light blinking 3 times? Castle has info on what the various blinks stand for.
Matt
Hmm, is the red light blinking 3 times? Castle has info on what the various blinks stand for.
Matt
Hey Matt,
The red motor wires were soldered and copper ring crimped around 'em. Anderson connectors look seated and undisturbed. When you comment, "very weird" I get this feeling it'll take a while to pin it down :x
The ESC gives 3 brief red blinks when power connected, then white, no sounds. When the throttle is applied, the light remains white and a fast (beep/chirp, a cheep) cheep, cheep, cheep . . .
By the way, what role does the shunt play? Maybe a fuse like function?
The red motor wires were soldered and copper ring crimped around 'em. Anderson connectors look seated and undisturbed. When you comment, "very weird" I get this feeling it'll take a while to pin it down :x
The ESC gives 3 brief red blinks when power connected, then white, no sounds. When the throttle is applied, the light remains white and a fast (beep/chirp, a cheep) cheep, cheep, cheep . . .
By the way, what role does the shunt play? Maybe a fuse like function?
was the motor really.. like REAAAALY hot after the first shut down ?
No, almost hot, yet I could finger touch it without getting burned.
Think I heard somewhere that the CA could record higher amps, that amps could be read from several locations. Hope so, eek, 173amps
((Ah yes, the CA reads battery Amps on screen while riding yet records phase amps (3x's greater) that appear on another screen when viewing everything after my ride.))
Think I heard somewhere that the CA could record higher amps, that amps could be read from several locations. Hope so, eek, 173amps
((Ah yes, the CA reads battery Amps on screen while riding yet records phase amps (3x's greater) that appear on another screen when viewing everything after my ride.))
recumpence
1 GW
Hmm, maybe bypass the shunt and test it.
Matt
Matt
recumpence said:
Good point, the stock CA shunt will not like 200 amps....
Is the figure of 173 amps reasonable? Wouldn't that be an insane motor-blowing power surge if it was real?
Or is it more likely that the CA was hooked up correctly?
I'm asking because I have nearly the same motor (and plan) and I just bought my CA!
By the end of this, you will have gained a tremendous understanding of this whole thing. I think you should aid Warren in his online tutorial, other than Matt, who better?
Katou
Or is it more likely that the CA was hooked up correctly?
I'm asking because I have nearly the same motor (and plan) and I just bought my CA!
By the end of this, you will have gained a tremendous understanding of this whole thing. I think you should aid Warren in his online tutorial, other than Matt, who better?
Katou
recumpence
1 GW
For one thing, a surge of 179 amps will not blow a HV160. I pull 200 amps from mine regularly. No problem. Also, I have never blown a 160 with a 3210.
I am guessing the shunt is blown. Of course, one problem with this is, if you pull power from a 160 while under load, you can blow it from the voltage dropout.
Matt
I am guessing the shunt is blown. Of course, one problem with this is, if you pull power from a 160 while under load, you can blow it from the voltage dropout.
Matt
OK, bypassed the shunt and get the same response. I gave it just enough throttle for it to kick in (turn the motor shaft a tad) then backed off. I thought it was tough to blow the HV160 with the little 3210. Couldn't read the CA this am at first due to early slanted sun flashing thru the leafless trees from across the street. Just caught some 3200W or 3700W readings before power faded. I'm getting the large screen CA and a 100+amp shunt. Plan to switch back to the White Ind Eno. It provides more drag and could help spin/start the Astro.
Would it be worthwhile to take apart the motor? Any real complexities with that?
Matt, I'm assumming "voltage dropout" is voltage dropping too low when the ESC is under load, and it dies (such as 32.7mph WOT when geared for 39-41mph)? Thought excessive loading would take place under 25mph. The HV160 arrived programmed for an LVC around 40.1volts. Is this voltage cutoff set comparatively high in order to prevent this voltage dropout? Actually, I had the HV160 reprogrammed to have the LVC at 38.4volts. Have the stuff to program the HV160 now, will get that going.
Katou, (seems Luke explained about amp spikes a while back) I'm learning trial and error. Ya' think Warren will let me write a foreword to his RC guide book?
Got the CC ESC programming stuff going today! Data says the controller peaked around 75degree f, 62Amps, 3000W, 50-44V, V ripple <1volt, nothing to an extreme. HV160 no#1 had been set 5med timing, 12V LVC, soft cut off, 160A current limit, throttle response 5, endpoints by the Castle Techs. Just programmed HV160 no#2 8) I'm still searching around for recommendations where to the set the timing (I set lo-timing?) and type cutoff (set soft cutoff). Gotta' do some more reading on the ES. The programming is a snap and the data pretty informational
(See page 1 for more ESC programming settings )
Would it be worthwhile to take apart the motor? Any real complexities with that?
Matt, I'm assumming "voltage dropout" is voltage dropping too low when the ESC is under load, and it dies (such as 32.7mph WOT when geared for 39-41mph)? Thought excessive loading would take place under 25mph. The HV160 arrived programmed for an LVC around 40.1volts. Is this voltage cutoff set comparatively high in order to prevent this voltage dropout? Actually, I had the HV160 reprogrammed to have the LVC at 38.4volts. Have the stuff to program the HV160 now, will get that going.
Katou, (seems Luke explained about amp spikes a while back) I'm learning trial and error. Ya' think Warren will let me write a foreword to his RC guide book?
Got the CC ESC programming stuff going today! Data says the controller peaked around 75degree f, 62Amps, 3000W, 50-44V, V ripple <1volt, nothing to an extreme. HV160 no#1 had been set 5med timing, 12V LVC, soft cut off, 160A current limit, throttle response 5, endpoints by the Castle Techs. Just programmed HV160 no#2 8) I'm still searching around for recommendations where to the set the timing (I set lo-timing?) and type cutoff (set soft cutoff). Gotta' do some more reading on the ES. The programming is a snap and the data pretty informational
(See page 1 for more ESC programming settings
)