Swedish Kona DH Cromotor 10kW Kelly *Water cooling?*

[pucksterpete]

Hey Peter, nice looking Mastech, how she working for ya?

Pete

 

[Peter Sternersson]

Works great so far.

I contacted Sean after not hearing from him in a week after I transfered the money. He said that there was a miscalculation in the stock, so he sent me one directly from the manufacturer in China

Yesterday, I set it for 1A CC, and tested the resistance of the phases in the motor. With 1A flowing through the coil I measured 100mV, 103mV and 103mV between the different phases. This corresponds to 0,1 ohm phase resistance.

At least now I know I don´t have a short or something in the windings from blowing controllers up all the time

 

[Peter Sternersson]

Got my new Kelly controller today. Very impressed so far, seems real sturdy.

I´m working on all the connections now, and think I have sorted just about everything out.

I forgot to order the shunt, so I made my own, just soldered some measuring wires on one of the battery cables then ran it on my new Mastech on constans current and measured the voltage drop.
8AWG cable with measuring points about 10cm between resulted in 0.2375 mOhms.

One thing I haven´t solved yet is where I will get the speed signal for the CA.

There must be somewhere other than an extrenal speed sensor where I can get a signal?
Is it possible to use one of the halls for a speed signal somehow?

 

[dan974]

it's the hall sensor that give it , no ? not sure about that and I did not test it without the the speedmeter unsoldered
otherless you need the speedmeter sold as an option with the CA...

(I'm still waiting the dropouts to push test further...)

 

[Peter Sternersson]

I suppose it is the hall sensors that give the speed signal in some way.

I´m just wondering how I should tap in to one of the halls for these readings.
Can I just make a parallel connection on ground and the output from one of the hall sensors without disturbing anything?

 

[dan974]

soory, I'm a bit confused...the hall wiring goes into the Kelly ...so you just read amp by the shunt and can manage the throttle, break, you need the speedmeter ...

 

[Peter Sternersson]

Now the Kelly´s up and running!

I connected the speed signal input to the CA, to one of the hall sensors in the motor. Seems to work, it gives a readout anyhow. Might need to calibrate it some later.

One thing that boggles me is the shunt setting in the CA.

As I wrote before, I made my own shunt, just by soldering some measuring wires on to a piece of 8AWG wire. Connected it to my PSU and set it to a constant current of 8A. I measured the voltage drop between the two measuring wires, and with Ohm law, calculated the resistance to 0.2375mOhm.

But when I set this value in to the CA, it changes to 0.761mOhms or something like that. I´m guessing that the CA is not advanced enough to measure mOhms, and with no current flowing through the circuit, it shouldn´t be able to do a self calibration either.

Can someone shed some light on to this?

 

[Ariane]

Now the Kelly´s up and running!

I connected the speed signal input to the CA, to one of the hall sensors in the motor. Seems to work, it gives a readout anyhow. Might need to calibrate it some later.

One thing that boggles me is the shunt setting in the CA.

As I wrote before, I made my own shunt, just by soldering some measuring wires on to a piece of 8AWG wire. Connected it to my PSU and set it to a constant current of 8A. I measured the voltage drop between the two measuring wires, and with Ohm law, calculated the resistance to 0.2375mOhm.

But when I set this value in to the CA, it changes to 0.761mOhms or something like that. I´m guessing that the CA is not advanced enough to measure mOhms, and with no current flowing through the circuit, it shouldn´t be able to do a self calibration either to calibrate it correctly.

Can someone shed some light on to this?

Hi Peter,

Use the "High Range mode" on your CA from 0.0763 to 0.9999 mOhm, you are probably set on "Low range mode" actually is the main reason why your CA reset at 0.761 mOhm, a sort of default value in this mode when your shunt is too low, i personaly use a .250 mOhm shunt in this mode, also if you CA start to display strange Amps when not running reset the "Zero Amps" ont the advanced value of the CA.

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[pchen92]

Nice
Could you do a little ride with a powerful setup (like 150A motor and 230A phase) before I order mine ? 8)
Thx

 

[pucksterpete]

I ended up getting Lyen 24 4110 fixed and also ordered Zombiess 24fet 4115. Lyen's 4110 is running fine, but went ahead and installed the 4115 yesterday, she runs much cooler, both the controller & motor. I was able to hit 80kph @ 24S 100V. 50A battery & 120A Phase, I am 220lbs with the 26" wheels and acceleration is insane. Curious to hear the Kelly controller ride.

Pete

 

[Peter Sternersson]

Hi Peter,

Use the "High Range mode" on your CA from 0.0763 to 0.9999 mOhm, you are probably set on "Low range mode" actually is the main reason why your CA reset at 0.761 mOhm, a sort of default value in this mode when your shunt is too low, i personaly use a .250 mOhm shunt in this mode, also if you CA start to display strange Amps when not running reset the "Zero Amps" ont the advanced value of the CA.

Good day!
Black Arrow

That did the trick! Thanks a lot!

I tested the motor WOT in the air just now, 2,4A seems about right.

I have some more testing and tuning to do before I can go out riding. A friend of mine has borrowed all my large connectors so I cant connect the phase wires just yet. He gets home tonight though.

I haven´t made up my mind if I should use the regen or not. I did spend an extra 80$ on the regen version, and it would be cool to test the variable regen feature but...
Hmm, need to figure out a neat way to solve it...

 

[Ariane]

That did the trick! Thanks a lot!

Your are welcome :wink:

I tested the motor WOT in the air just now, 2,4A seems about right.

Yes correct same with my Cromotor V2

I haven´t made up my mind if I should use the regen or not. I did spend an extra 80$ on the regen version, and it would be cool to test the variable regen feature but...
Hmm, need to figure out a neat way to solve it.

My regen is always's active when I release the throttle, the only problem is, in this "mode" the controller seems to give a shot if you accelerate too quickly.

Doctorbass use another throttle on the left handle this way you can use the regen mode to fit your needs is the best option with this controller, I think and will do the same thing on my current build ebike.

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[dan974]

yes you can find some left thumb throttle on left hand and put front break on right side as MX, this way you're sure to release throttle, and using the regenerative would act as an hydraulic security switch as the magura switch, as it will turn off bypass the throttle signal when turn on, so I think it add security in case you can't release the throttle for any reason... I try to tweak a thumb throttle (right) to use with left thumb, by opening it but it is just a sensor between 2 magnets and you can't reverse it without smoking it :-D
either you use it behind the brake lever with your finger or you can find some left hand throttle in the US....cool to know that //ing just one hall signal is enough to get speed with the ca....

 

[John in CR]

I thought one of the Kelly regen options was to activate regen with a switch, like an ebrake handle or other momentary switch, and then use the throttle to vary the force of regen to get more braking force. You quickly become accustomed to the functionality, ie hit the brake to engage regen and your mechanical brake, and then twist the throttle to make regen stronger. Just don't let go of the ebrake while you have a fist full of throttle, though Kelly is probably smart enough to disable throttle until you turn it back to zero.

You might also look into the 3 wire hall type ebrakes. Maybe those vary their signal strength similar to a 0-5V throttle. I've never had a controller that accepted the hall ebrake input to find out if they work that way.

John

 

[Ariane]

Hi guys,

In fact you don't need a left throttle, a right one will turn counter clockwise and with practice is easy to use it this way :wink:

From Kelly on their FAQ section :

Releasing Throttle Starts Regen" means starts regen when the throttle is released.
"Brake Switch Regen" means starts regen as soon as the brake switch is activated to RTN after the throttle is released.
"0-5V Signal Regen" means the regen can be adjusted by varying the signal. You must install 0-5V brake sensor.
By default the controller will work with brake switch regen mode. You couldn't use three regen modes at the same time. You need to disable other two modes.

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[Peter Sternersson]

So i have spent the last couple of days working on both the bike, and maybe mostly my house.

However, today I took a rest from the hammer and nails and connected up all my 4 BC168 chargers, each to an own 12V 30A power supply.

I made a wiring harness, and after melting one of the D-sub connectors I used, I got everything right and could start charging.

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I read in someones thread that using these chargers this way (using them to charge in series so to speak, could lead to that one charger interferes with the others voltage reading.
I couldn´t see anything wrong when I was charging, but when I turned everything off to go to bed, I noticed that one cell was at a very alarming 4,32V :?

Quickly I needed to get the voltage down, before something bad happens!
Set the charger to discharge, but the stupid thing could just pull 1A.
So I hooked everything resistor I had, to a total of 50ohms or so, not good enough!
Then it hit me, a piece of wire long enough would do it!
Drained the cell down pretty quick with 6A or so.

I also took a picture of the chaos I call battery compartment

Guess I will have to charge in two sets, charger 1 and 3 at the same time, and 2 and 4 at the same time.
Not a big problem actually, more than it will take twice as long to charge :x

Aa well...
Hoping for some sun tomorrow morning so I can go out and test the Kelly controller.

 

[pucksterpete]

why not bulk charge using the mastech most of the time and once a month or so balance charge?

 

[Peter Sternersson]

That was actually my plan. I have a speakon connector prepared for the task.

However, I have a slight problem with the Kelly controller, it gives out too much power

But seriously, even when I have the CA set to just 20A, the Kelly pumps out a wopping 100A to begin with, then ramps it down to my set 1500W.
It seems like there is something in the controller that is set for a quick launch or something.

I dont have a RS232 on any of my computers, so I haven´t tried all the settings, but tested the obvious ones at a friends house. Tourqe, speed or balanced mode, fiddeling with the throttle settings and such...

Any ideas?

 

[Philistine]

What you describe (ie, the controller ramping big current above the set limit at the start) is usually dealt with by reducing or eliminating "Block time" in the Infineon controllers, I have no idea about Kellys though. The big Kelly's have a bunch of quirks (or so I understand), but I know nothing about them. I have been told by other ES members such as Toolman2 that there are a quite a few strange issues you have to overcome or be aware of when using the Kellys. If I remember rightly, Toolman2 was having all sorts of weird quirks with regen coming on when it was supposedly turned off.

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Just set throttle response to a lower limit.
Or else ....big current when starting up :lol:

 

[dnmun]

using the power supplies together to power the BC168 would not cause the one cell to be overcharged. it is just that the balancing charger is not balancing the pack.

if you use a bulk charger you will most likely have a fire if your balancing chargers are not able to handle the variation in capacity of the individual cells and you will have that one cell with low capacity at 5V or if one of the cells shorts out to 0V.

i know eventually we will read of big fire from bulk charging a battery with one or two dead cells. we have already found very cheap lipo BMSs to protect the battery from over charging and over discharging. but people are stuck with balance chargers. 4.32V is not fatal, but close if you keep pushing charge into it, imo. may already be inflated a little.

 

[dan974]

i rôde something like more power @ start speed in the Kelly spec. but I m pretty sure you can deal it with the software...did you setup the speed with the hall signal on the ca ? is it working well ?

 

[Peter Sternersson]

It does say in the specifications on the controller that it has a "More startup current mode", but I cant find anything in the settings that directly reference to that.

I´m sure it´s just a simple setting, but I have tried all the obvious ones, and the program is really simple and with explanations everywhere but...

As it is now it´s totally impossible to ride, starts off with a wheelie every time
Then after it has come up to speed, it eazes off and comes down to the settings provided by the CA...

I´m going to see if my friend is home so I can borrow his laptop with RS232 to check out the program some more (who the hell does electronics with such an outdated port anyway??!!).

Also, I will try pedaling up some speed, and then hitting the throttle to see if it really has something to do with some sort of "take off mode".

 

[RAPHZ400]

I have the same prob whit my kelly just check the throtle sensibility 1-------20 grade , at 1 imposible to drive at 7-8 it good and at 20 have big throtle lag .

 

[MAGICPIE3FOCUSPOWER]

Well just buy serial to usb converter....