Swedish Kona DH Cromotor 10kW Kelly *Water cooling?*

Obviously I need to buy a converter, in fact I ordered one at the same time I ordered the controller.

But why even use a decade old outdated connector to begin with? None of my laptops since at least 6 years back has been fitted with one. Ah well, old dogs are hard to train I guess...


Anyhow, my friend came over with his computer and hooked me up...

Altering the throttle sensitivety (throttle up/down ramp) didn´t do much good, couldn´t feel any difference at all actually.

We ended up limiting the current to about 50% (6kW), this at least made the take off possible without hanging over the front tire.

However, the plan of beeing able to run the bike legally here in Sweden (250W, 25km/h only with pedal assist) seems to go down the drain if I cant turn of this quick launch setting in the controller.

The plan was to install a thun or pas connected to the CA, and set the proper limits in there. This wont do much good if the controller pushes 20 times the legal power, regardless of what the CA says :roll:



I had a maximum amp reading in the CA of a respectable 146A at 73V = 10,6kW.
I´m guessing this is the controllers max, pretty good for a 10kW rated controller, as I had read that Kelly greatly exaggerates their numbers...
 
Peter Sternersson said:
However, the plan of beeing able to run the bike legally here in Sweden (250W, 25km/h only with pedal assist) seems to go down the drain if I cant turn of this quick launch setting in the controller.
Click to expand...

AFAIK here in the Netherlands, the rule is 250W average (no peak power specified). so this means you can have much higher peak power as long as your average stay under 250W.
 
Guys, I see you have fun woth the Kelly 8)

After you are tired of blowing 4110 on the infineon controllers, you always end out to buy a kelly....

problem stop.. and fun begin... :mrgreen:


BlackArrow i am really curious to see your new ebike and try it!... soon.. soon... :wink:

Doc
 
Doc, you seem to have some experience with Kelly controllers.

Have you ever heard of the problem I´m having?

No matter how carefully I apply throttle, as soon as the throttle starts to move, the controller sends out FULL power until I get up to maybe 20km/h. Hard to see because I need to concentrate not to fall flat on my back :D

Kelly has replyed to my emails, but they seem to linger in giving an answear to my problem.

The controller does have a feature described as "More startup current ,can get more startup speed."
This seems to describe exactly what I´m experiencing, but it must be able to set at a lower level, or it can e driven with full power safely...
 
Peter Sternersson said:
Doc, you seem to have some experience with Kelly controllers.

Have you ever heard of the problem I´m having?

No matter how carefully I apply throttle, as soon as the throttle starts to move, the controller sends out FULL power until I get up to maybe 20km/h. Hard to see because I need to concentrate not to fall flat on my back :D

Kelly has replyed to my emails, but they seem to linger in giving an answear to my problem.

The controller does have a feature described as "More startup current ,can get more startup speed."
This seems to describe exactly what I´m experiencing, but it must be able to set at a lower level, or it can e driven with full power safely...
Click to expand...


You probably have set your throttle mode to SPEED :lol: ... or.. your throttle wirring is incorrect. do you use a magura with potentiometer or a hall sensor ?

If you use a hall sensor just ensure that you have properly connected the 0V and 5V wires from the 5V source of the kelly to the hall sensor.

Yes Kelly work perfectly when you wire them properly :wink:

Doc
 
I have connected the throttle directly to the CA, so it uses the CAs 0 and 5V. Will it make a difference if I use the Kellys 5V supply? Can I still have the signal going through the CA for speed and power limits?

The wiring is according to the schema supplied by Kelly themselves for connecting the CA to the Kelly.

I have tried the torque, speed and balance setting, all with the same result.

Apart from this, be it some what serious problem, the Kellt does work just fine, and might even have given me a bit better top speed.

With Lyens 24FET at 5kW I maxed out at 69km/h with a fully charged battery (84V).
The Kelly gave me 68km/h with something like 76V and 10Ah drawn from the battery.
 
Peter Sternersson said:
I have connected the throttle directly to the CA, so it uses the CAs 0 and 5V. Will it make a difference if I use the Kellys 5V supply? Can I still have the signal going through the CA for speed and power limits?

The wiring is according to the schema supplied by Kelly themselves for connecting the CA to the Kelly.

I have tried the torque, speed and balance setting, all with the same result.

Apart from this, be it some what serious problem, the Kellt does work just fine, and might even have given me a bit better top speed.

With Lyens 24FET at 5kW I maxed out at 69km/h with a fully charged battery (84V).
The Kelly gave me 68km/h with something like 76V and 10Ah drawn from the battery.
Click to expand...


Did you tried connecting the throttle to the controller directly.. ? if it work perfect, than it is probably the C-A that add an offset voltage on the ground(common ground for the signal) that make the kelly to see a thorttle voltage while it doesn't or.. it might be your C-A setting for the throttle map compensation.
 
I haven´t tried connecting the throttle directly yet, but will do so in the morning and see if it helpes.

Having the throttle through the CA worked fine with the Lyen 24FET, so I kind of thought it wasn´t the problem...
 
DUDE!

W/o even fully reading this thread, I can say I have the exact same problem with the magura and the kelly. I have a kbl96251 and I've done everything you've already done. The magura is a 0-5k pot throttle and that's the way the kelly is reading it. I had the j2 connector pins match up with the magura and its directly plugged into the kelly. In fact, my CA doesn't talk to the throttle at all. The problem I'm having is that the throttle cannot maintain a certain speed. Even if you give it a quarter turn and keep it there, the bike continues to accelerate. I have no idea why this would be happening. I checked and rechecked the wiring and changed every setting on the kelly. The only thing that works is ramping down the current to 25%. It's still awesome, but i would like to cruise, not WOT all the time. let me know what you come up with. I might just try a new throttle....

-moon
 
could it be the kelly controller has a torque throttle instead of a speed throttle?

if this is the case, it explains why you accelerate to full speed even at quarter throttle, this is because the torque needed for full speed is lower than the value you are requesting with the controller.
 
nieles said:
could it be the kelly controller has a torque throttle instead of a speed throttle?

if this is the case, it explains why you accelerate to full speed even at quarter throttle, this is because the torque needed for full speed is lower than the value you are requesting with the controller.
Click to expand...


This is my guess too!

Doc
 
I have had some progress today with the Kelly.

Yesterday I rewired the throttle directly to the Kelly, and it runs much smoother then with the CA.

I went out for a test ride and this is the result.

bild_zpsc6d229b6.jpg



The five seconds or so before my fuses where turned into dust was really fun :mrgreen:

I never realized that my friend had set the Kelly to 100% power, and that it was the CA holding everything back.

Today I went over to him and we programmed so that it peaks at 90A instead.
With the throttle directly to the Kelly everything works just fine. The throttle response is good, and no more 200A at take off.

However, I got Kelly to send me new firmware, so I will try and update the controller and connect it through the CA again. I really want the features that the CA gives, speed limit, cruise control, temperature and so on...
But for now, the bike is very rideable....
 
so if it is true and the controller has a torque throttle, the problem is most likely the combination of the CA and the controller. and not fixable with a firmware update on the controller.

The software of the CA is designed with a speed throttle in mind. you could email justin @ ebikes.ca and ask him if this could be the problem and if he knows a solution.
 
pchen92 said:
Woww :shock: 19kW :twisted:
How did you manage to stay on the bike ? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Hehe, leening veeeery far over the handles 8)
But I think the 250A where on take off, and the effeciency was probably well below 50%.
But nice to see that my batteries and the controller can take it.


nieles said:
so if it is true and the controller has a torque throttle, the problem is most likely the combination of the CA and the controller. and not fixable with a firmware update on the controller.

The software of the CA is designed with a speed throttle in mind. you could email justin @ ebikes.ca and ask him if this could be the problem and if he knows a solution.
Click to expand...

The Kelly has both speed and torque throttle, but I never tried anything else then torque, because that was what I wanted. It might work with the controller set to speed, I will try that as soon as I get the chance. It´s kind of a pain in the ass to be forced to go over to my friends house a mile away every time I want to try something new. Hope my USB to RS232 converter gets here any day now...
 
The fun is begining guys :wink:

Doc
 
I replaced my hall wires when I had the motor apart, so I don´t know the correct combination by color.
But I just testet my way to the right combination, there is att very good schematics here on the forum (posted by methods I think).

Now that I have my throttle directly to the controller, the CA isn´t really connected to the controller at all.
The only connection is to the speed input of the CA, that one is connected to one of the halls. Kelly provides you with a schematics for it.

I made a shunt out of my main battery wire, by soldering two measuring wires 10cm apart, and then running a constant current in the main cable and calculating the resistance.


I got my USB to RS232 converter today at last. With the controller set to 40% battery current and something like 53% phase current, it pumps out 8,2kW. Almost enough to lift the front tire of the asphalt if sitting straight up, perfect in other words :D
 
What kind of throttle are you using? Magura? do you have any issues maintaining speed as in cruising? What did you set your throttle sensitivity to? speed, torque, or balanced? what about the range? thanks!
 
Peter Sternersson said:
I replaced my hall wires when I had the motor apart, so I don´t know the correct combination by color.
But I just testet my way to the right combination, there is att very good schematics here on the forum (posted by methods I think).

Now that I have my throttle directly to the controller, the CA isn´t really connected to the controller at all.
The only connection is to the speed input of the CA, that one is connected to one of the halls. Kelly provides you with a schematics for it.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I tried all 36 combinations with a friend. None has functionned. What is your phase combination ?
 
I can look in to it this weekend, but have you tested your halls so that they are functioning correctly?

One set of halls in my Cromotor V2 doesn´t work anymore after the 24FET Lyen blew up...
 
Not sure if anyone cares...but I got the magura throttle and the kelly kbl to work finally. No more issues with the throttle goin WOT and shit. I connected the magura directly to the kelly and i also disconnected the two wires on the CA connector from the j2 connector.
 
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