System (U, Motor, Controller) Efficiency

[wildnrg]

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile)
9w/km (14.4w/mile)

2. Speed (mph | kph)
45km/h flat, 25km/h 2% up, 61 km/h 2% down.

3. Gradient (%)
Max % Untested

4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme)
Light

5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others)
Dual suspension MTB

6. Motor Model
Headline (Cyclone) 500w

7. Controller Model
24A internal

8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity)
24V 20AH

 

[gerlewis]

You guys quoting your speed via a bike-speedo, have you calibrated it for your wheel circumference? As I found mine was over reading out of the box. I was getting 48kph when in actual fact 44 is the true speed after calibration. Which was annoying as I thought I was doing 30mph.

Ger

 

[patrickza]

My results after 1000 miles

1. Efficiency (Watts/mile)
11wh/km (18wh/mile)

2. Speed (mph | kph)
30km/h

3. Gradient (%)
Fairly major hills, steep enough that I don't freewheel going down as it's too fast for comfort.

4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme)
Light

5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others)
Dual suspension MTB

6. Motor Model
Crystalyte x5305

7. Controller Model
Crystalyte 72v48A

8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity)
72V 10AH

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

Ok, here's my best run thus far:

1) 42 miles

2) Average speed 13MPH (lots of hills, some stretching over 2 miles)

3) Gradient 3-7%

4) Moderate Pedaling

5) Hardtail (Rigid Frame Mid/Late 90's Nishiki w/ Marzocchi Fork) Mountain Bike turned "Dirtable" street bike

6) Amped Bikes Geared (rear wheel) Motor Kit

7) Amped Bikes 15/22Amp controller

8) Dewalt A123 battery pack (28V packs, 2s4p) 53Volt 9.2AH

This is with about 70% pedaling only, I have found I can use the motor to get up to speed and carry it just pedaling, and minor hills I usually just pedal, but my battery is mainly my "get home happy" device, meaning I get a good work-out, sweat a bit but still can walk when I get home! :lol:

 

[skeetab5780]

that's slightly scary....that's exactly my best run also....same mileage, stats, hills and pedaling.

except i use a 48v 10ah lifepo4

 

[ajtest]

All this efficiency talk raises a number of questions I was interested in when a lecturer friend and I set a university project aimed at designing a small device that would capture the data from a Cycle Analyst and a small GPS unit, storing everything on an SD card.

The students have done a great job so far and the hardware just sits on the bike and writes a file with data being written once a second.

The question is what to do with the data? Currently it can be displayed on Google Earth but what would people suggest for the visual display? How about a trace that changes colour from say blue for low power use to red? How would you want to represent the speed-or would you want to do this on its own separate display.

As the height changes are known (both from GE itself as well as from the GPS data) perhaps we might want some way of indicating how much effort the cyclist was putting in along the route.

Just a few thoughts, if you have any suggestions I'll forward them to the student responsible for writing the data display side of the project so the community gets what it wants.

Andrew

 

[dozentrio]

1. Efficiency 25 watts/km 40 watts/mile
2. Speed (mph | kph) 50 kph 32 mph
3. Gradient (%) flat
4. Pedaling effort (none, light, heavy, extreme) none to light
5. Bike Type (roadster, MTB, trike, others) Full Susp MTB
6. Motor Model Unite/Currie my1018z
7. Controller Model ecrazyman 800w 48V brushed
8. Battery (Voltage/Capacity) 44.4V 10Ah EC Power Lipo (5C or so)

 

[John in CR]

1a. Efficiency- Highway- WOT 50-59mph=55wh/mi (80-94=34wh/km)*
1b. Efficiency- Highway- 40mph=42wh/mi (65kph=26wh/km)*
1c. Efficiency- Typical stop and go 35-40mph cruise=50wh/mi (55-65kph=31wh/km)*
2. Weight- 365lbs/165kg**
3. Pedal effort- 6-8 strokes at start 50% of the time (the single speed gearing can't keep up)
4. Bike- Custom from used MTB+steel tubing, soft front/hardtail. 60" wheelbase, 26" motorcycle seat height. 24" bike 1.75" front, 19.5" dia motorcycle 3" street knobby on back. Both inflated to 32psi.
5. Motor/controller- 1200W rated motorcycle hubmotor and matched 60V30A 15fet Infineon controller running at 74V nominal (20s Konion LiMN), and shunt modified to 50A.

* - Actual is slightly higher, because measurements taken from energy going into the battery from the charger, not out of battery to controller like a Cycle Analyst would give. Typical riding is jackrabbit style, and more hills than the slight rolling grade of the highway tests, which were non-stop except the first mile from the house. The variance in the WOT speed of the highway was the range of speed caused by varying grades. The highway tests were with a slightly tucked position, and upright position slows WOT speeds 2-3mph.
**Much of the typical efficiency in everyday use includes significant extra loads from this bike+me weight. eg 150lbs of kids and books on school days, groceries, hardware, etc.

 

[kentlim26]

hi everyone

my motor from Conhismotor of 1000watts, controller 1000watt also, is supply by conhismotor,
just in going 3months time i have done 1700km. this kit is alot many times better in anyway
compare with cyclone. Everything in + shipping USD250 .. 3days i got my this baby ! thinking
for cyclone kit, think for hub motor is much Superior in anyway.

1.speed i got it on top speed is 59.8km/h, on full throttle it can easily achieved 51km/h
2.gradient, a little slop, mild
3. peddling - nothing , nil.
4. moutain bike black one , http://www.flickr.com/photos/kentlim26
5. Wh/km is 10.3229 ~ 15.46 watts.
"several of my test and measure per watts/ km = is often seen 9 to 11.77wh"
6. i can see my turnigy meter the peak watts is only 1533watts
7. it can also take very little watts per km. ONLY 6.65watts for 1km for 18-20km/h
8. im using a lower quality lifepo4 battery, from vpower. this battery can only do 1 or 2c.
"this vpower battery is not for cyclone motors, which can draw 50amper or 2200watts.
it kills all the 1 or 2c battery.
9. the worest slop i ever seen my top speed drop to 35km/h.

28/july/2010
a recent test.a 98% hard full throttle 49km- 52km/h , wh/ km is 15.4+
80% throttle, speed 38km/h - 42km/h, wh/ km is 12.88watts. peak watts is still same
1500+watts. no changed

04/08/2010
i run until my battery flat.. vpower 48v 20hr gives only 710.3watts and range is 95.22km.
this can easily more efficient then cyclone max range. cyclone 900watts draws too much
current, even i do very less throttle, it just cannot improve range from 60Km. last ride it
got from Cyclone 900watts kit only 55km.

17/08/2010.

amper peak watts hit 32.96. total watts hit 1614. that is so much higher from the cells
38140s. bMSbattery 48v 12hr.

cheers
kentlim

 

[minde28383]

hi everyone

my motor from Conhismotor of 1000watts, controller 1000watt also, is supply by conhismotor,
just in going 3months time i have done 1700km. this kit is alot many times better in anyway
compare with cyclone. Everything in + shipping USD250 .. 3days i got my this baby ! thinking
for cyclone kit, think for hub motor is much Superior in anyway.

1.speed i got it on top speed is 59.8km/h, on full throttle it can easily achieved 51km/h
2.gradient, a little slop, mild
3. peddling - nothing , nil.
4. moutain bike black one , http://www.flickr.com/photos/kentlim26
5. Wh/km is 10.3229 ~ 15.46 watts.
"several of my test and measure per watts/ km = is often seen 9 to 11.77wh"
6. i can see my turnigy meter the peak watts is only 1533watts
7. it can also take very little watts per km. ONLY 6.65watts for 1km for 18-20km/h
8. im using a lower quality lifepo4 battery, from vpower. this battery can only do 1 or 2c.
"this vpower battery is not for cyclone motors, which can draw 50amper or 2200watts.
it kills all the 1 or 2c battery.
9. the worest slop i ever seen my top speed drop to 35km/h.

28/july/2010
a recent test.a 98% hard full throttle 49km- 52km/h , wh/ km is 15.4+
80% throttle, speed 38km/h - 42km/h, wh/ km is 12.88watts. peak watts is still same
1500+watts. no changed

04/08/2010
i run until my battery flat.. vpower 48v 20hr gives only 710.3watts and range is 95.22km.
this can easily more efficient then cyclone max range. cyclone 900watts draws too much
current, even i do very less throttle, it just cannot improve range from 60Km. last ride it
got from Cyclone 900watts kit only 55km.

17/08/2010.

amper peak watts hit 32.96. total watts hit 1614. that is so much higher from the cells
38140s. bMSbattery 48v 12hr.

cheers
kentlim

Hi kentlim26,
your results are the ones I would like to see from my setup: "9C", "ping 48V 15ah", "25Amps stock controller". Usually my trips speed varies 20-30km/h and I constantly see ~18Wh/km. I do sometimes peddle.
How did you manage this "speed 38km/h - 42km/h, wh/ km is 12.88watts"? What's your weight; do you go flats or sometime down hill?

 

[aaronski]

here's some interesting stats: 9c 20" wheel, 10 ah lifepo batt. 12 fet Lyen controller. commute is 7 miles.

average with controller set to 24A is 3.1 AH per ride
Average with controller set to 70a is 5.7 AH per ride

average speed is the same. 17 MPH.

 

[DAS100]

This is my first post, and I’m glad I could contribute. I recently completed building my first electric bike, and last Saturday went on a 45 mile trip with it. The bike has a Cycle Analyst and I confirmed the speed and mileage the CA displayed using a GPS. The following information is based on the 45.37 mile trip I took.

Facts about the trip:
The trip started in North Phoenix. I rode to the middle of downtown Phoenix, then to downtown Scottsdale, and then back to the location I started from (using a different path). I used Bike Paths as much as possible. There was a moderate amount of stopping and starting for street signals & signs, traffic etc.

1. Efficiency 22.6 wh/mi
2. Speed: I cruised generally at 15-18 mph, occasionally slower 7-12 mph (~7% of the time) when going over rough terrain, or sight seeing. (I did a speed run, and reached a top speed of 27.2 mph on flat terrain). CA indicated an average speed of 12.1 mph for the entire trip (CA does not include the time when the bike isn’t moving, but does include anytime the bike is moving, (even if walking it across a crosswalk).
3. Gradient: Flat
4. Pedaling: None
5. Bike: Inexpensive Mongoose XCom 700cc Men’s Bike with thorn resistant tubes, and tire sealant. Total Weight of Bike, Equipment, and Rider is 335 lbs.
6. Motor: 9C 2807 (ebike.ca)
7. Controller: Infineon Controller 25Amps (ebike.ca)
8. Battery: 48 volt 20 Amp V2.5 Ping Battery


Total Amperage drawn from the battery during the trip was 19.95 amps. I stopped at about 35 miles and charged the battery with a 5amp charger for 55 minutes, just to make sure I had enough juice to make it home.

Cruising on level smooth ground at 16-18 mph (no stops) and no pedeling, I’m averaging about 17-19wh/mile.

Hope this helps.

 

[kentlim26]

hi minde28383,

I pedal almost nothing, max is 5%. my this throttle is 3/4 Plus ( but will not hit full throttle), the speed will run easily 42km/h. Im weight only 65kg ~ 68kg. Most of road is very flat, if there is slop, the slop will be less then 10degree, >200meters. PSI air pressure on tyre is 50 ( i think this helps too ) most of my time, i am taking 12+ watts/ km. 9C magnet size i heard is 28mm, for this CHM motor is 32mm. I think it makes a different. I have open up hub motor once to repair the hall sensor, so at the same time i also measure the magnet size.

The most interesting discovery for this efficiency, i had also compare with cammy_CC 48v 500watts kit. I plug in my Turnigy meter and do a testing for full throttle is 40km/h max, but it will takes 15.44watts/ km at least. said to be a small motor, should be taking lesser in watts/ km but it didn't. i also wondering what is the watts/ km for 36v 200watts kit ? im living in singapore, land is almost 75% - 80% flat.

cheers
kentlim

 

[pcarlson79]

Hi Well I have 2 eBikes. One for everyday work commuting, must be silent and reliable, and a FUN bike

Work Commuter:
1. Efficiency: 19-21 watts/km
2. Speed: 31kph coast up to 40kph peddling
3. Gradient: very small hills
4. Pedaling effort: Moderate
5. Bike Type: Giant Mountain bike, hard tail, steel front forks with no suspension. 21speed
6. Golden motor 36v 500w
7. Controller: Kelly KBS72121 (24v-72v 50A controller)
8. Battery: Ping 36v 30Ah. Gives about 70Km range



FUN eBike:
1. Efficiency: 28-35 watts/km
2. Speed: 55kph coast up to 75kph peddling
3. Gradient: ANYTHING
4. Pedaling effort: None, peddles spin too fast
5. Bike Type: Dual suspension mountain bike 5 speed rear de-reullaeur (spelling?)
6. Cyclone 1200w 3 chainring kit. Draws 1800watts constantly
7. Controller: Standard Cyclone 1200w controller
8. Battery: Conhismotor 48v 25Ah. Gives about 40Km range at full throttle

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

Here is the spreadsheet I have created. Hope this is helpfull. Let me know what you think.
View attachment Ride Log.xls
You will need to unhide rows and columns as needed.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

Speadsheet downloaded 8 times! No comments? Wow, is it that bad?

 

[edcastrovalley]

Speadsheet downloaded 8 times! No comments? Wow, is it that bad?

Actually this is a really nice spreadsheet. It's a good snapshot of winter riding with lots of information here. I especially like the cost per mile column. You would have to go 100 miles to rack up 2 cents in electric costs. I'm curious as how you are measuring your charger kwh to get charger efficiency.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

I am measuring the charger in two ways. I have it plugged into a Kill-O-Watt from the wall and a Watts-Up going into the battery. That is where the info comes from. A bit intensive to keep all the data updated after each ride, but worth it to me.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

Wow, now 25 downloads but only one comment. I hope this wasn't a waste of time for everyone.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

edcastrovalley, I have recently reviewed a post http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=14934 and think that my calculations for charger efficiency are wrong. Doctorbass brings forth the "PF" indicated factor and this charger appears to be only 35 or 36 % according to the PF on the Kill-O-Watt. I have been calculating it based upon Kw used (via Kill-O-Watt) compared to input into the battery (via Watt's Up). For example, line 50 of the spread sheet shows .69 Kw used (or 690 watts) and 547.2 watts input into the battery. Yes this appears to be 79% but I am sure there is more to it than that. Here is a pic of the charging station.

As you can see, the Kill-O-Watt measures from the wall to the charger and the WU measures from the charger to the battery. Hope this helps.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

I think I might have something worthy of contribution here, no idea what the margin of error might be with the Turnigy Power & Watt Meter, but yesterday I hauled a kiddy trailer behind the bike using a Amped Bikes 9 x 7 DD rear hub motor to go 30 miles with an average speed of about 13 MPH according to the trail tech, I was shooting for about 18MPH most of the time just my eye-ball, lots of hills, some up to 10% grade, most closer to 4-5% and I had about 50lbs of gear + the kiddy trailer to haul my newly built nuvinci wheel.

I went really conservative since I had no idea what my range would be with this set-up, and pedaling was about as much as I can on a long trip with this kind of weight (amazing how much difference that trailer makes, with this same weight on my back it wasn't half as difficult! ) so I tried my best to keep the draw around 200 - 250W most of the time, and for the hills I had a peak of 1000W, but most of the time just 400-700W was enough to go up the hills, but I was beat after this trip, not so much hard pedaling, as marathon moderate pedaling.

Here are the basics:

1. Efficiency: 13 Watts/Mile
2. Speed average 14 MPH on the computer (my normal cruising speed was about 18MPH, pedal starts only, no power used until up to 10+ MPH)
3. Gradient 4 - 10% with lots of small hills in-between with a coulple 2 - 3 mile long moderate hills, and the big momma, about 2 miles of 5 - 12% at the end.
4. Pedaling Strenuous, moderate pedaling, but for 35 miles
5. Bike Type: Tidal Force frame with Rigid Big Dummy Forks, Schwalbe Big Apple Tires, 18Speed standard gearing with an extra low gear (28T) up front.
6. Amped Bikes 9 x 7 DD Rear hub motor (Very Early 2007 model, still has the "9C" logo on the controller)
7. Standard 9C 20A controller that came with the kit circa 2007
8. Battery: 12s (45V Nominal) Turnigy Nano Tech 25 - 50C 12AH size. Used just 7 almost 8 AH's of the 12AH pack for this trip.

P.S. this is with a 170lb rider, 80lbs of cargo (30lb trailer and 50lbs cargo on it, and the drag added by the trailer .. HATE trailers ... :lol: ) and 63lb bike.

 

[montyp]

Here is the spreadsheet I have created. Hope this is helpfull. Let me know what you think.

You will need to unhide rows and columns as needed.

Wow - that is a lot of data. I really like how your listed *all* the costs of building the bike. I think I have overlooked a couple

In the cost comparison are you showing the purchase price and operatering cost will break-even with just the gas from operating the car, correct?

I've been trying to convince

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

Yes, the comparison is offset cost off gasoline only for a vehicle getting 19.5 mpg. The mileage and cost of gas will of course affect the mileage required to reach break even. I hope all of the data makes sense and is somewhat accurate. I have not heard anything other than maybe the PF is causing a false reading in the actual charging cost. I felt it necessary to include all of the costs because, well, I am anal about that sort of thing.

 

[motornews]

from the other posts i think that my numbers will be very good.

1.dont know how to calculate
2.48,5 kmh top speed on flat(on downhill just 53kmh???strainge)
3.97% flat
4.pedalling-non
5.mtb average
6.chinese gm(advert--1000w)
7.controler from golden motors cn(has cruise control-very enjoyble)
8.batt-48v 9 ah -sla-

doing 19-20 kmh on charge,with the slas think its nice
bike weights 35kg+78 FRESH MEAT total -113

how can i measur the -efficiency-?

 

[Scottyf]

1. Efficiency 8-10 whrs per mile
2. Speed (15-18 mph)
3. Gradient mixed
up to 10%
4. Peddling effort always moderate
5. Bike Type road
6. Motor Model bafang 250watt front driving
7. Controller Model universal 15amp peak

8. Battery panasonic cell 36v 9amp hr