TaiLG Electric Bicycle Scooter 48 Volt 12 Ah 250 Watt

I made my mind after all about the new battery and i ordered two 6s1p 5ah Zippy packs with a 4mm series connector and some wires from hobbyking.

I also ordered 2 x 6s Cellmeters http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=19945 and i was thinking to use em on each pack so i don't have to install a voltmeter if that's possible.Anyone knows if they are reliable ? and if i can use em after i make the series connection in order to get the 12s pack i want ?

Also i want to know what is the minimum voltage i can get out from the pack.All i know 12s should not get under 44 volts or that's not correct ?
My controllers LVC shutoff is 41 volts so i was wondering if the packs will get damage at 3.4 volt per cell.Because if it this is possible and i can get each pack safely at 20.5 volts i will not need the Cellmeters.

Thanks again
 

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the shutoff is just a safety percausion.
After it reached completely empty, you will have to recharge them. There is some kind of safety barrier. I've seen cells recharge from a near to 1V state; though after that they never retain the same amount of charge.

You're going to use these batteries as your main power source, or going to use it as a backup/secondary pack?

I'd start using it as a secondary pack, or at least have some spare batteries left in case you run out of juice in the middle of nowhere!

At least it'll give you a good idea of range. After that, you could double the capacity, by doubling the amount of batteries.
 
I want to use the new packs for backup.I am planning to have em with me in my helm container without any electronics attached on them so they dont discharge over time and get damage.I will also make a custom power cable with 25A automobile fuses to be able to connect the pack safely to the scooter without having to worry about sorting anything.

I was just wondering if the packs can survive the 3.4 v minimum voltage and if the cell meters will work after i make the series connection.

I will do all kinds of testing and all but with my calculations the packs should get me 10-20 kilometers at lowest speed max.

3.4 Volt is withing the 80% rule because i dont want to couch fire wile i ride this thing :)
 
If you ask me, I find 3 issues with your setup:

1- The motor might draw more power than the batteries can actually provide. If you want to drive your bike home on them, you'd have to drive very carefully, hoping they won't overheat. From the looks of it, you might need 2 sets of these batteries; not 2 batteries, but 2 sets of a series connection at least.

2- You'll need to install some cheap breaker switches, to turn off the internal battery, while turning on the secondary. If you don't, your battery pack will basically recharge the internal battery; and before you know it, both are empty.

3- Recharging the batteries require you to disconnect them. You could try to find a solution so you won't need to always connect/disconnect them; via a diode switch or perhaps a manual breaker circuit
 
ProDigit said:
If you ask me, I find 3 issues with your setup:

1- The motor might draw more power than the batteries can actually provide. If you want to drive your bike home on them, you'd have to drive very carefully, hoping they won't overheat. From the looks of it, you might need 2 sets of these batteries; not 2 batteries, but 2 sets of a series connection at least.

Yes i will monitor battery temperature and all but this kind of batteries can have 100A continues so my max load 17A*48 =850 watt is way low for what they can put out.I made my calculations and i found out that i can run the scooter at 1st speed 250 watts and have a total run out of it around 35-40 minutes and at top speed i can run it about 17 minutes.I will do all my testings and see if i need the other two packs.Shortage in cash right now.

2- You'll need to install some cheap breaker switches, to turn off the internal battery, while turning on the secondary. If you don't, your battery pack will basically recharge the internal battery; and before you know it, both are empty.

While i will do my tests i will disconnect the main battery and i will make a special wire with breakers so i don't fry anything a 25A fuse will be perfect for my tests.After testing and all i will probably install a switch so i can change from main to backup system.

3- Recharging the batteries require you to disconnect them. You could try to find a solution so you won't need to always connect/disconnect them; via a diode switch or perhaps a manual breaker circuit

When you connect the two batteries in series with the bullet connectors and batteries marked up there is no fear of shorting anything and with the breaker in the hot wire there is no problem.

I was thinking connecting the two alarms on each pack and also use the thermometer i currently use for the controller in order to have some data while i test with the pack.For now i will have to connect/disconnect em in order to charge them up.
 
I could not wait anymore for the parts to come so i made my test wires out of heavy duty 6 gauge double insulated solar wire :D I installed a 30A fuse just in case.This cables can endure a lot of DC current 40Amps continues so i guess i will be ok any ideas of improving it ? when i get the series connector i will seal up the remaining uncovered parts as well.
 

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If this battery is just to extend range on your existing battery, you don't need a large gauge wire, as you'll probably be running less than 50% of the total power through these wires..

I actually connected a 10Ah (peak) battery on my 40Ah (peak) battery through 2 x 1mm wires. They're made for upto 6A, but they seem to handle the sub 10A load pretty fine!
 
Hello again :) i know i probably tiered you with all my noob questions and all ...so before i start asking again i wanted to thank you for all the help me so far :)

Well i have two 36volt10ah lipos with bms sitting at my place (one of the packs has 30 charges like new ) and i was thinking of combining the newer one with the 2 x RC 6s1p 5ah packs i was talking you about if its possible.
I was thinking connecting the two RC lipos in 6s2p configuration and then connect em in series with the 36 volt lifepo4 pack.Taking the + wire of the 36v and connecting it to the - wire of the RC pack.The other - wire from the 36v pack and the + from the RC 22.2 pack will be my main leads.Do i need to do something special with the BMS?I will disconnect the packs in order to charge them.If its possible to wire em up safely it will make a 36+22= 58 volts normal pack and 66 full charged one.I will probably need a new controller to endure the 66 volts ? my own can handle 63v maximum or 14s configuration.Or the controller might withstand the 66 volts if i cool him more efficiently ?

Do i also have to check the 36v packs C rates or something ? do they have to be close to same C discharge rates i mean.Will i need a diode?

thanks again
 
Hi,

For series connection, you don't need a BMS; although it's better to always have a BMS installed in the battery, for charging purposes.
Just make sure your expansion battery (the one you're going to put in series with the main battery, is not too large (anywhere from 6-9V makes sense; installing a 12V battery might destroy your controller; but overvolting in general will reduce the lifetime of the controller too).
Also make sure the extension battery has at least the same amount of amps (or more) than the stock battery; preferably of equal value. Less amps means the series battery will run empty sooner than the stock battery, meaning it'll leave your bike without power once the BMS shuts off that battery.

Also your motor will receive less power if you connect a weak battery with a strong battery in series.

If I where you, I'd create an electronic circuit, using circuit breakers. They can be gotten as cheap as $5 per breaker. Preferably 20, or 30Amps breakers.
Make sure the circuit breakers work,and are in the 'off' position.
Attach 2 circuit breakers together (mechanically, it is possible to use silicone glue), and install them in your storage compartment, or below it (mount it or use silicone glue).
Go from the stock battery '+' to circuit breaker 1; split the wire on the circuit breaker input, and extend it to the extension battery's '-'.
From that same circuit breaker 1, it's output, go to your controller. (basically you just inserted one circuit breaker between the stock config, see picture for details).
motorb.gif

Then from the output of the extension battery '+', go to circuit breaker 2.
Short circuit the outputs of circuit breaker 1 and 2.

!11!1Doing this configuration, you must remember, to NEVER turn on circuit breaker 1 + 2 at the same time!!!!!!

You want boosted speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 1, and turn on circuit breaker 2!

You want stock speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 2, and turn on circuit breaker 1!

again, you MUST turn off circuit breakers before changing mode!!! When circuit breaker 1 and 2 are on at the same time, you will short circuit the extension battery. If you're lucky though, the second circuit breaker will pop, but don't rely on that!

Concerning your controller, that will depend. a 3V increase is not worth going through the effort; 6V increase might result in 2-4MPH increase. 9V might get you more than 5mph increase, and is worth it. You could always run on the main battery, and when it's getting more empty, and your speed goes less, kick in the secondary battery. That way the controller never really will be overvolted.


IMHO the above is really the cheapest and easiest mod. No need for diodes. The breaker circuit is also good to isolate the battery when charging, so you can charge both batteries separate at the same time (meaning you can use 2 chargers simultaneously), without having to pull them out of the bike.
You could use diodes, but high voltage diodes that don't waste too much battery are hard to find; and still they would use about as much power as having your headlights on.
 
Hi,

For series connection, you don't need a BMS; although it's better to always have a BMS installed in the battery, for charging purposes.
Just make sure your expansion battery (the one you're going to put in series with the main battery, is not too large (anywhere from 6-9V makes sense; installing a 12V battery might destroy your controller; but overvolting in general will reduce the lifetime of the controller too).
Also make sure the extension battery has at least the same amount of amps (or more) than the stock battery; preferably of equal value. Less amps means the series battery will run empty sooner than the stock battery, meaning it'll leave your bike without power once the BMS shuts off that battery.

Also your motor will receive less power if you connect a weak battery with a strong battery in series.

If I where you, I'd create an electronic circuit, using circuit breakers. They can be gotten as cheap as $5 per breaker. Preferably 20, or 30Amps breakers.
Make sure the circuit breakers work,and are in the 'off' position.
Attach 2 circuit breakers together (mechanically, it is possible to use silicone glue), and install them in your storage compartment, or below it (mount it or use silicone glue).
Go from the stock battery '+' to circuit breaker 1; split the wire on the circuit breaker input, and extend it to the extension battery's '-'.
From that same circuit breaker 1, it's output, go to your controller. (basically you just inserted one circuit breaker between the stock config, see picture for details; just think of the 12v battery as your 36V main battery, and the 9V as your extension battery, regardless of the voltage; the configuration is the same).
motorb.gif

Then from the output of the extension battery '+', go to circuit breaker 2.
Short circuit the outputs of circuit breaker 1 and 2.

!11!1Doing this configuration, you must remember, to NEVER turn on circuit breaker 1 + 2 at the same time!!!!!!

You want boosted speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 1, and turn on circuit breaker 2!

You want stock speed?
Turn off circuit breaker 2, and turn on circuit breaker 1!

again, you MUST turn off circuit breakers before changing mode!!! When circuit breaker 1 and 2 are on at the same time, you will short circuit the extension battery. If you're lucky though, the second circuit breaker will pop, but don't rely on that!

Concerning your controller, that will depend. a 3V increase is not worth going through the effort; 6V increase might result in 2-4MPH increase. 9V might get you more than 5mph increase, and is worth it. You could always run on the main battery, and when it's getting more empty, and your speed goes less, kick in the secondary battery. That way the controller never really will be overvolted.


IMHO the above is really the cheapest and easiest mod. No need for diodes. The breaker circuit is also good to isolate the battery when charging, so you can charge both batteries separate at the same time (meaning you can use 2 chargers simultaneously), without having to pull them out of the bike.
You could use diodes, but high voltage diodes that don't waste too much battery are hard to find; and still they would use about as much power as having your headlights on.
 
Thanks for the reply :) based on your post i made another custom wire because i was having a 12v12ah battery here in my small solar setup and i made the series connection ok 67 volts with 5 batteries.
I will try and use this to see if my controller will get damaged and if this is successful i will do the same with the 36+22 volt one i told you above witch will give a 66 volt in full charge.

Is there anything i can check on my controller to see if it can withstand that high voltage to be on the safe side ?

So if i am right i don't even care about the BMS i will just connect the new batteries with the old one at the same principle.
You mentioned something about the the extension battery has to be close to the main so i guess the 36v and 22v batteries are quite close to attempt the series connection right ?I will not blow anything on the bms or something ?

I double ask because in the case of the SLAs there is no bms and therefore no problem :)
 
dnmun said:
he doesn't know the answer to those questions. if you run 67V on a controller with 63V input caps, it won't last long. this thread has just turned into misinformation.

Sorry about turning it to misinformation but i really want to know this staff i am reading and experimenting every day but i just don't want to burn my scooters controller or myself in the process that's why the so many questions.

In the case of SLA's everything is easy to do.FREAKING BMS ....For example the output of the BMS is the same as a the cells one by one ?and by that i want to know if i can still connect in series more cells any number without a bms.
For example 10s2p battery with BMS in series with a 6s2p rc lipo (all lipos have the same capacity) do i need something special to make the connection ?or i proceed like the SLA's.

Also i realize that i need a controller as well because i don't want to burn my own even if its in warranty

If the solution is to get another 6s smaller bms and connect it in series with the 10s one please let me know :)
 
Alastor said:
dnmun said:
he doesn't know the answer to those questions. if you run 67V on a controller with 63V input caps, it won't last long. this thread has just turned into misinformation.

Sorry about turning it to misinformation but i really want to know this staff i am reading and experimenting every day but i just don't want to burn my scooters controller or myself in the process that's why the so many questions.

In the case of SLA's everything is easy to do.FREAKING BMS ....For example the output of the BMS is the same as a the cells one by one ?and by that i want to know if i can still connect in series more cells any number without a bms.
For example 10s2p battery with BMS in series with a 6s2p rc lipo (all lipos have the same capacity) do i need something special to make the connection ?or i proceed like the SLA's.

Also i realize that i need a controller as well because i don't want to burn my own even if its in warranty

If the solution is to get another 6s smaller bms and connect it in series with the 10s one please let me know :)
Just ignore him. there are those that only can say negative things without saying anything useful.
Regardless, I would not automatically assume that your controller is made for 60V.
Overvolting is possible, reduces lifetime, but overvolting by over 50% is a risky thing to do!
 
Guess what today i got the package with the lipos and they send me a 3 cell 5000mah turnigy for free.Unfortunately the turnigy they send me its 35-45c so i cant connect her in series as well :( .

I took an old power supply enclosure and i made a metal battery enclosure for the two RC lipos for my sake.I tested the pack and it only got 8 degrees more while i was doing heavy duty climb at full speed.the batteries didn't even get close to warm up in touch.

Here is a picture of the pack with the cell meters attached and cables for the controller with a 30A car fuse.
 
Hi guys complete noob on e-scooters...I've had the bike for a couple of days and now it's completely dead. I hope it's just that it's out of battery? but there is no response on anything, no beeping, etc.

The green switch is off when i tried to move it to on, there is spark.

When I plug the battery charger, there is a blinking red light, is it charging? How long should I leave it charging for? it's been maybe an 30 minutes charging and when i turn it "on" nothing.

Can someone explain to me the ARS system?

Any help is much appreciated.
 
Is it a LiPo charger, or Lead-acid?

Usually lipo chargers turn red (constant) while charging, and green when turned on.
Blinking red may indicate a faulty battery, or dead due to low volt treshold
LiPo's you can never run empty! If they have a BMS, the BMS will shut down the battery.
Most LiPo's need 4 hours of charging the least, and upto 7 hours when being completely depleted.
 
Hey all ,

It's been a long time since i posted anything new for my little toy here so i decided to let you know of its progress.Remember the heat sink on the controller and computer fun ? they are no more since the bicycle is not having trouble with overheating even on summer days.I only kept the thermometer to monitor my lipo pack just in case.

I finished my 12s3p lipo configuration.You where right from the beginning about telling me to use 4 bricks at least.So 50V15Ah pack with six 6s1p 20c 5ah Zippy lipo.I made a new heavy duty harness wire with 10AWG wires bullets for parallel and andersons in series.Working great i just need more time to test out its range.Today i installed the new arrival a watt's up meter and i will begin okaying with it tomorrow :)

Finally i rewired the main leads from 14AWG cheep Chinese no name wire!!!! To 12AWG good quality silicon wire.So the pack is wired 10AWG and from the watts up to the controller 12AWG.

Now i am waiting the new Lyen controller to test the motor of this thing and i will let you all know or you will hear me crying about burning it.Got RPM meter and probe thermometer as well.

And that's all for today.I am planning to strip it of the plastics and take pictures of it but now i am so tiered.
 
The 50v15ah is something else :) I did 15 kilometers and i only consumed 3,6 Ah out of 12 total available.I guess this makes it 45 kilometers of ride till i hit 44 volt.

The maximum wattage i saw in a big 20% grade was 900 watt with me pedaling and my gird as a second person :p
The nice thing is that the motor is not getting hot even at 900 watt so i guess i can push the system to 1200 - 1400 watt with no issue.
 
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