The SB Cruiser : Amberwolf's 2WD Heavy Cargo Trike & Dog Carrier

clamping / pinching dropouts both ends, tight and flat to axle both ends both sides, no nuts needed on either side (have one on outside anyway just because there's axle length for it)

is hubmotor with solid axles, can't see anything like qr axles or hollow ones?

shear was at shoulder of axle outside of the clamp, probably repeated braking / accel torque in rotation

plus frequent side loading pulling each axle side down or pushing it up depending on turn direction

plus infrequent road damage impacts that can't be avoided in traffic


got gmac installled (pita to get the tire on, had to invent new way of get it on couldn't use tire levers without damaigng tube) but crappy controller can't run it past 5mph wtihout glitches that will break it cause it keeps reversing direction at speed so tomorrows commute will be on leftside motor only wit the gmac just being a wheel

tehn sunday/monndya i build t he new wheel with anot her ultramotr and if theres time timeto do it i;ll tyr a spare controller i have under the trike alrady to see if it will run the gmac, and if not then if time enoughj load up a gmac profile on the pr6 and try that if not then just put the new ultramotor wheel on there and go back to how it was before until i hafve time to futxz with ti agian.

wish i culd sleep cuz i'm exhausted now but woke up from nightmares so am now up till i can get them out of my head enough to doze off agin.
 
is hubmotor with solid axles, can't see anything like qr axles or hollow ones?

I meant if that thick axle can be broken while riding, for other people, this is probably more scary (I have a mid-drive motor on a 24" fat bike, so I have a normal rear hub).

1696093989393.png

Anyway you're definitely more experienced to know it's cause. I would just think both nuts needed even if it's clamped, but I don't know.
 
I meant if that thick axle can be broken while riding, for other people, this is probably more scary (I have a mid-drive motor on a 24" fat bike, so I have a normal rear hub).

View attachment 340279
That nub is only for positioning. Once the skewer is tightened, structural loads are borne by the axle face, bearing, and whatever is behind it.
 
...after work I put the broken stub into the inboard clamp in a way that kept the rest of the motor axle from swinging upward, so that the wheel would turn easier (tire still rubs on the frame, making an intensely annoying noise) and be less likely to just snap the outboard axle too, then rode home about 10mph avoiding every possible imperfection in the road surface with that wheel that I could.
Good thinking and action under pressure! :bigthumb: You and McGuyver.
 
The good news, is the GMAC wheel survived the work commute, and there weren't any problems from the mounting. I'd still like to make better inboard mount; I can't use a nut on that side which would be the best way, since the round axle doesn't clamp sufficiently in the dropout meant to clamp a flatted axle. Right now there is a long bolt (see previous images) tied down to the frame whose other end goes up into the space in the dropout above the axle to prevent it from going upward on the inboard side from sideloading, and the old axle end broken off the UM clamped in the dropout below it to keep it from going downward.

The bad news:

The GMAC simply doesn't work with the generic 15FET; above 4.5-5mph it just starts to do wierd stuff, loaded or not. Autolearn always works normally, but that's only for phases since the hall wires on this controller are just for show and have never worked with any motor, so it really only sets the direction of spin.


The GMAC, unpowered but not connected to anything, has quite a bit of drag to it at the higher speeds of 10-20mph, and enough at lower speeds to really make it take a long time to reach that higher speed range with just the big leftside motor. (30A grinfineon driving it in sinewave sensored mode). When I am accelerating or cruising the trike drags toward the right (unpowered GMAC side), harder the faster I am going. When I stop pedalling (equivalent of letting off all throttle), the trike drags toward the left a bit more, like normal. I verified there's no physical rubbing/etc anywhere.

The GMAC gets warmer than ambient after the ~2.5 mile ride to or from work; seems unusual for a motor not connected to anything to power it or to load it, especially since ambient was around 90-something F.

I'm going to get the hipot tester out to verify there's no high-voltage shorts from phases to axle (which may include the stator laminations if it's designed like others), but am not yet opening it up to do more direct testing. (this is the problem the other MXUS had, that's not on the trike anymore, which I fixed with coronadope drizzled down into the windings).



The PR6 should work with the GMAC, it's capable of sufficient ERPM AFAIK. But:

Setting up the Phaserunner to run the GMAC isn't likely to happen today. The software tries to connect to it, but just says "connecting", and never actually does.

Most likely this is because it uses a TRRS serial connector, but I only have the old TRS Grin USB-Serial adapters. This puts the TX / RX on the wrong parts of the cable, so they don't go where they should.

I had bought a TRRS extension cable to create a cable for something on my Lebowski-HondaIMA project, but have apparently misplaced that, so I can't use it to hack the old TRS style into a TRRS. (wasted well over an hour looking, after having spent another part of the morning getting a stack of bags of dog food and some treats JellyBean won't even try to the St Bernard Rescue group, and before that doing some long-delayed yard work while it was still cooler...).

The PR6 has it's serial pins also exposed on one of the other connectors (WP8 I think), so I can try to make an adapter to that for the serial, using one of the extensions for each of the PR6 connectors I bought to cut up to make cables to connect it up to the rest of the trike, by putting a TRS female (off some old audio cable most likely) onto those wires.

In case I can't make that work I ordered a very cheap TRRS male pair with bare wires on the other ends from Amazon which should be here tomorrow, but probably not till late evening or nighttime if they're like usual, so I probably wouldn't get any of that done until at earliest the next day after work.


If I can't get the PR6 setup done today, I'll try first to see if the spare controller on the trike will drive the GMAC, and if it won't, I'll put some temporary andersons on the GMAC's extension cable (built in it has the L1019, and I have an extension for that cut in half to make a bare-ended cable to connect to the trike with, for anything other than the PR6 that has that built in too), and test the old Grinfineon that drives the leftside motor. If that works, I'll move the generic controller that's driven the rightside motor for years over to the leftside motor (DD MXUS 450x), and that should work fine, and I'll be 2WD again, utnil I can mess with the PR6 some more.

If it doesn't work, then tomorrow I'll spend the day lacing up and truing the spare Ultramotor, and replace the GMAC with that and deal with the GMAC/PR6 stuff later.
 
Noob error alert. :oops:

I forgot that like other controllers, the Phaserunner has a KSI input that must have battery voltage to turn it on, so the reason it wasn't responding wasn't the USB-serial connection, just that it wasn't powered up. I only even thought of this because this thread:
came up with a reply to it today...if I didn't at least glance at every thread with a reply every day to see if someone needs help I would probably never have thought of this at all, until after I failed to get any of the usb-serial options I could make come up with a response, which might have been weeks. :roll:

Along with the extensions I'd also gotten the WP8-standalone-usage cable, whcih includes an internal connection that routes battery power to the KSI input, so I plugged that in and voila! it is now communicating with the setup software. ::phew::

For the moment I just backed up it's original factory configuration to a file, then created a file using the Grin "built in" GMAC 10T / PR6 parameters, tweaked the HVC/LVC to match my battery, ran the autotune, and wrote the settings to the controller. Now I have to wire in a throttle connection from the WP8-standalone JST to the throttle harness wiring under the trike, and see how it responds offground to input from the trike. Then if that works as it should, some loaded testing onground, and then test rides.
 
So, it was beautiful, for about half a mile. :cry:

Then suddenly the wheel just plain jammed, and the trike swung to the right and stopped; I was only going a few mph as I had just made a right turn from a stop sign.

I got off, turned everything off, then tried to roll it and couldn't move it, so I backed it up a bit accidentally as I tried to tip the trike up just enough to get the wheel offground to try to turn it by hand, and it moved freely on ground, but hwen I tried to manually turn it, it went about an inch then stopped hard. got under the trike, nothing jamming the wheel, no touching the tire, etc. Unplugged mtoor from controller, no change.

backed it up some more and repowered the trike, hoping to ride home using just hte other motor, and it sort of moved but it was unhappy, then suddenly freed up a lot (but not completely, and I was able to limp home the rest of the half mile back.


Tipped the trike over to take the motor off, and found aluminum dust on the torque arm mounting plate that sits just outboard of the disc rotor mounting bolts; unbolted the motor and took it inside (was dark outside at this point). the plate was grinding against the bolt heads, but previously it had had a couple mm or more of clearance, so somehow either the plate moved inward (can't see how), or the entire motor assembly and axle moved inward relative to the casing.

Further disassembly of the motor found that this last is what happened, because it caused the spinning case to grind against the stator back and the sensor board, creating a fair amount of aluminum shavings and dust, which is what jammed up the gears getting in the teeth. Hopefully there isn't any fatal damage to the gears (like cracks at the teeth roots that will propagate over time, etc) from it.

and it was very very puzzling how this could happen (missing spacer? didnt' see where one could go)...until by pure accident I held the casing in one hand and as I was passing it to the other to turn it over, the cassette freehub turned backwards...without ratcheting, whcih can only happen if it is not tightned into the casing.

Sure enough, it looks like it was never fully tightened and secured into the casing (possibly never even fully threaded in?), and somehow (vibration? ) it unscrewed further as I rode, allowing the entire motor to shift inboard inside the casing, causing this damage.


At first when I found the problem with the freehub, I thought for a second that maybe it was because I have it mounted backwards (drive side to the left, inboard), but that should only make a difference if the freehub was being locked against the frame while the casing spun, which is not the case--the cassette was free from touching anything and spun easily by hand in the freewheeling direction when the motor was mounted in there--I'd made sure of that before even powering up the motor the first time Friday night with the generic controller, so ti couldn't cause any problems with friction, etc. I'd also rechecked it when I felt how draggy the motor was unpowered, etc. There should be no way to bind the freehub without also binding the cassette... (note there is no chain on this side of the trike; that's on the other motor on the other side, so literally nothing touches the cassette on the GMAC).

I'll have to see if there is any way to mitigate the abilty of the freehub to unthread itself regardless of circumstances (I can't flip the motor over to put the freehub on the outboard side because it would put the tire/rim against (or inside of) the frame tubing.) Loctite on the freehub/cover threads should help, but I do not want to risk this happening again regardless of cause.


The freehub also contains the driveside axle bearing, so if the freehub moves so does the entire motor core. :(

So...it looks like a manufacturing problem of not tightening the freehub mechanism down is the root cause of the problems I've had with this motor (which appeared brand new, unused or virtually unused, when I got it).

Normally this would be a non-issue for anyone that pedals their bike at all once the motor is installed; pedal torque would tighten it down good...but since this one isn't installed in the chainline because taht's on the other side of the trike, it doesn't see any pedal torque (even if it was flipped the right way for it to work), and so not being tightened enough at the factory wouldn't be known about or fixed.

The primary damage is the inside of the drive side cover has some serious grooves ground into it, and the wheelspeed sensor is completely ground away, leaving only some of the silicone holding it in place and the backplane that is part of the leads--the sensor silicon is gone, and all of the outer casing.

I haven't metered it but it looks like two of the backplane parts are touching each other, which would short them together all the way to the controller. If this is 5v and ground, it would explain why the PR6 setup software can't detect the hall signals, and has to run the motor sensorless.



The good news is that I can fix the freehub issue one way or another, whcih puts the motor core back where it's supposed to be, and replace the ground-off wheelspeed sensor, and so as long as the gears are ok and the windings aren't damaged (they don't appear to be, wasn't hot and was no smell other than formaldehyde-like possibly from the gear grease), and the PR wasn't damaged by the sudden motor jam, means I can still use the whole setup as the new right side system on the trike.


If any of those things isn't working, I'll have to hurry up and finish the rebuild of the spare Ultramotor into a new rim with the spokes I just got from Grin, and put that on the trike with the old generic controller so it'll be just like it was before the axle broke on the other UM. At least I know *that* all works.


Pics attached, sorry I didn't get comments added to any of them yet, but they should be "obvious" which things they are.. ;)
 

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Yes, it's about as bad as the Fusin geared hub I had to use a hose clamp on the clutch (cracked) to get home about a decade ago. The clamp was *just* too wide so it scraped the side cover up...

On this GMAC: Repair successful (so far).

I had to almost completely disassemble it to clean the shavings out; the motor bell / stator were full of them, but thankfully those were dry and could be blown out. The ones in the gear side were all sticky with gear grease, so I had to take the gear assembly off the motor core, and then clean it and the side cover/ring gear and the main housing with first a toothbrush and wipe that with a paper towel after every stroke on the gear teeth, then soap those parts down and wash them, repeatedly, to get all the metal-filled grease out of them. I didn't want to wet the motor itself, so I just brushed and toweled the sun gear and axle on that side as well as possible, and wiped down the bell when done.

Once done with that I sun-dried all the parts for the middle of the day during lunch break and getting some other chores done, then I used a light machine oil to seep into the bearings in case they got washed out too. (hopefully all the water is out of them; I didn't have time to do it the way I would like that would be nearly certain to do it).

While they were drying I also replaced the scraped-off wheelspeed hall sensor, and found that there is a PCB defect that had apparently been solder-bridged over; this solder had been scraped up and pushed against the screw that holds the PCB in place, so i rebridged it. (at first I thought the piled up metal on the screw head was aluminum, but it was not--it was solder!) I forgot to take a pic before doing that, but it looked like the masking for that part of the PCB etching failed during etch and copper was randomly eaten away in one area of the ground plane there. You can still see some of that in the pic of the bridging, sort of. The screw itself was bent from the scraping, so I replaced it with a nearly-identical one (rounded head instead of countersunk) out of my EIG pack spares (used to bolt the busbars to the cells).

I used blue loctite on the threads for the freehub-cover interface, and slipped the main cassette body on there and used an improvised chainwhip to tighten it down (I don't have the right tool to do it via the freehub notches).

Then I reassembled the motor and put it back on the trike, without the cassette installed just to make it easier to see all the clearances and whether the freehub ever changes position.

I did first modify the inboard dropout slightly, adding some weld material at the top so the axle can't go upward any farther than the outboard one (not sure how I missed doing that when I built these new clamping dropouts). I took some better pics of the clearances around everything, showing the washer/spacer stacks, etc.; those are all below with the rest of the pics.

Examining everything, I also realized that the freehub would *tighten* if it had contacted anything on the trike while riding, not loosen, so whatever went wrong doesn't have anything to do with that...but I still can't figure out how it could possibly have come loose, except for one "wild" theory:

Previously i had a Crystalyte 5348 (IIRC) whose side cover would *always* loosen and unscrew all of it's cover screws (it did this back on CrazyBike2, and then on SB Cruiser later). I even loctited them, and once superglued them, and the best that did was to keep the threaded part in and just shear off the head once the screws to either side had loosened enough. :roll: I used several different kinds of screws with different heads, to no avail. Some stayed longer than others, but nothing was ever permanent, and the older the motor got the worse the problem was. Eventually I took the motor off SBC to put one of those MXUS 450x (3 or 4, forget which) on there instead, and when I took the 5348's cover off, I found a section of axle at the ID of the bearing that had "compressed" just slightly--the axle was chrome plated, with copper under that, and presumably the usual crappy steel. It had not worn the chrome or copper off, it had compressed it or deformed it so it was just barely visibly recessed in that region vs the rest of the axle, and not symmetrically around the circumference either. So what I *think* was causing that cover screw problem was some form of precession caused by a cam-like force on the cover, either from it being out of round, or the axle being out of round, etc.

So...on the GMAC, if there are precessive forces acting on the freehub/cover threads (like from the weight of the cassette/freehub against the cover, etc, I don't really know), then it could unscrew as well--this would probably never happen on a bike with a pedal chain on it if the bike was ever pedalled even slightly faster than the motor was turning, as the forces against the freehub in this direction would rescrew it into the cover.

Without the mass of the cassette on there, and with the loctite, hopefully whatever forces unscrewed it this time will not be able to do it again, but I'll have to check it every ride just to make sure.


I took it for some short test rides around the neighborhood, and this time was able to also try out the regen braking...oohhhh, it's sweeeeet.. :drooling face: With it calibrated to match the CA braking output thru the throttle, it plus the ancient grinfineon on the other side that also does this, it will slow the bike anything from very gently to a pretty hard stop in a very short distance (I haven't measured that yet). In combination with the front disc, if I mash both levers down hard (left for rear variable regen, right for front disc), it'll stop me in less than a few feet. Feels like two, but it's probably more.

I'm sure repeating that a lot would heat things up, but nothing was much warmer than ambient by the time I was done with the mile or so of short tests. (I used the WP8's temperature sensor pin to pass the signal thru to the CA so I can monitor this realtime--it's at least two degrees C high from what the PR suite says the controller sees, at ambient, reporting 25C when the PR sees 23C, don't know what the differences at higher temps are yet).

Oh, and the motor doesnt' feel nearly as draggy as it did when first installed, so this freehub problem was probably already happening around the time I first installed it, though I don't think the motor was carving up the case inside yet (and I know the torque arm wasn't being carved by the disc bolts yet or I would have seen that when checking everything for clearances and rubbing after the first commute).

There is one problem still--two of the halls don't work--the PR suite reports they appear to be shorted to 5v, stuck off. I foolishly did not test them while I had the motor open, which would have been ridiculously easy, so I'll have to take it off the trike to fix those. Since it still works well enough in sensorless mode (other than starting from a complete stop being a little jerky), I didn't do that today because I'm already worn out, and I didn't want to screw anything up in the process of taking it off / putting it on / etc and then have to be troubleshooting stuff all night and have to work in the morning. Maybe next weekend.


And SB Cruiser itself passed the 10,000 mile mark at some point recently; I think it's now at 10,082 miles on the odo.

PIcs below, and I'll probably post again with stuff I forgot to put in this one. :oops:
 

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No loosening of anything on the ~5 mile commute today, even with using regen braking for all of the braking for the entire trip. According to the CA, this actually got me back 37.6% of the Ah used over the whole trip (1.375Ah regen out of 5.059Ah total used). If correct, this is pretty amazing and completely unexpected--I don't think I've ever seen that kind of energy recovery with any of my other bikes or controllers. If real, it probably has to do with the way the Phaserunner6 does regen, and possibly the gearing of the GMAC.

I will say that I don't much like the gear noise, which is pretty loud under either traction or braking. It is significantly louder than when it is unpowered, and greatly increases from nearly silent at low speeds to annoyingly loud above 10mph on up to the max of 20mph. :/

At this moment there is still no grease on the gears, as I did not have any of the right kind when reassembling. I do have some automotive grease tubes of a red clear grease that I previously used on the old Fusin geared hubs to no noticeable bad effect, but those were a different plastic (plain translucent white, probably nylon), and I don't know it's effect on the blue plastic the GMAC gears are made of. I have to find those tubes to get the name, and then look up threads discussing greases to see if others have used it on the GMAC or similar gears, before lubing the GMAC with it. (at $80 plus at least $20 shipping for a new gearset from Grin...I'd rather not damage them with a grease that could alter the plastic properties).

But...the unpowered noise was the same before removing the grease (even before the problem that forced that), so I expect the powered noise will be the same once it's regreased.

Part of the volume is likely it echoing around the wheel well or even vibrating the cargo area walls or well walls or both via the frame, and that I can dampen by adding some dense foam inside the well, attached to the well walls, and to the cargo area walls inside the area around / above the wheel.

It may also be the motor housing itself; I am curious whether an oil bath would help with this (would also negate the need for grease, and would also add a bit of cooling, though that isn't necessary--see data further down). I'll have to see what others have done for oil baths on the GMAC or even the plain MAC over the years.

Acceleration from a stop is slower for the first few feet than with the DD Ultramotor and the generic 15FET with a much lower current limit, but it's quieter. As it gets louder (gear noise) then it rapidly increases accleration until it is much quicker with the GMAC / PR6 than the UM / G15F; I don't quite get pushed back in my seat from it but I can feel it. Overall the total time to reach 20MPH from a stop is shorter by a small amount. (is probalby closer to 4 seconds now than the 5 seconds it was).

There is one issue that is probably because of the sensorless fallback mode due to the two failed sensors: At poweron, the PR jerks the motor back and forth a tiny bit, hard enough to rock the trike back and forth (with or without me on it); that's a significant torque/current to do that (not sure how much). The same jerk happens when I reach a complete stop via regen braking, and it also happens if I accelerate from a stop using the throttle vs the pedals (pedal-first starts the wheel moving slightly so it probably helps prevent it, but it still happens occasionally even with pedal-first).

There was something else I meant to post about but can't remember what it was....


I've also attached pics of the CA data screens (some are very blurry, my hands aren't working well enough to hold the phone still enough), but here's the CA data for the round trip:
266wh
43.2wh/mile
37.6% regen (very unexpected)
1.375Ah regen
3.684Ah remainder
5.059Ah total trip used Ah
-153 Amin
76.98 Amax
Vmin 53.5 (from a starting voltage of 57.6)
21.0mph max speed (probably on the downhill from the canal bridge coming home)
15.2mph avg
17m46s triptime
4.505miles trip
10103miles total odo

Temperature max shows only 32.2C, but tha'ts wrong--it was 61.something when I reached work, and also wehn I got home--I guess the CA doesn't actually save the real max temperature, only shows what it has been since powerup. Says average is 0.0C, which is completely wrong. I'm using the sensor in the GMAC as passed thru the Phaserunner6; at ambient I know it reads at least 2C higher at the CA than in the PR; don't know which is right.
 

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The absurdly high regen percentage was some sort of glitch; best guess is the connection from CA to shunt has an intermittent high resistance; I'll have to check that out at some point. (probably just replace the JST with direct-soldered connections, as I've had this issue a few times and unplug/replug fixes it).

I get about 5% regen, using only ebraking and no mechanical, which is about what I expected.


Grin replied about the grease, and said the one I have is fine; the best one they've found is "a pao grease like molykote"; since I already have plenty of this, that's what I used.

They also said that generous grease helps with the noise but can't eliminate it (so I packed the gearing pretty heavily at teh sun and ring and around the mounting side of the sides of the gears); no experience with oil-fill vs noise. I don't expect to eliminate it, but I would like it to at least only be as noisy as the old Fusins (etiher the 350w or 1000w versions), or the eZee, all of which are a lot quieter than the GMAC.

However...all of those were used in 26" wheels for 20mph, and the GMAC is in a 20" (more like 21" with the tires I use), so it has to spin much faster...and the faster it spins the more noise it makes. So maybe it would be about the same noise as the others in the same size wheel for the same wheel speed.

It was noticeably quieter unloaded, and on a very short neigborhood test run, but we'll see how it really performs on tomorrow's commute.
 
Did grocery runs Friday and Saturday after work (splitting the usual load in half because I'm still testing / breaking in the GMAC wheel / Phaserunner6 controller, and prefer to reduce the risk of failure when there's a load I couldn't possibly walk the trike home with. (it would probably take me hours, maybe all night, to walk it home even empty, with a wheel failure I had to support).

No failures, thankfully.

Regen percentage still the same, wh/mile a bit higher as expected, as were temperatures (peaking about 25 degrees (86C) more than the shorter lower-mass work commute (61C); I would bet that a good deal of that is from the extra mass both accelerating and that regen has to stop as I still used just regen and no mechanical braking, some is probably from the slightly longer distance travelled).



There is a problem with the PR6 however, that is annoying and I still haven't figured out what causes it:

When I first power up the trike after it's been sitting off, the PR does not respond to throttle input, and the red light flashes steadily on, off (no blink code I can discern). I have to power cycle it once before it responds (and red light is steady). Once I do this, it works perfectly the entire trip, but it has had to be cycled every time.

I thought perhaps it was my voltage settings in there, but it happens at any state of charge down to about half full (the lowest I've run it down to so far with the PR installed), and all of the powerup conditions have been well within the limits I set the PR to. (need to get some screenshots and attach them).

I did take a screenshot (or copy/paste of the text) of the one time I got an error message (when I was verifying settings at some point, with the trike on it's side), but it's on the laptop I can carry out there for this stuff so I need to transfer it to this one to attach here. It was something to do with a phase current sensor, but I cannot recall the details. I haven't connected to the PR to see if it has other errors logged since then; so that's something else to check this weekend.


Most of the settings in the PR I left at defaults after loading the GMAC 8T (PR6) setup from ebikes.ca that's "built in" to the software. The things I changed were voltages to match my system (HVC and LVC), and setting the wheelspeed sensor to 6 poles to match the GMAC (I don't understand why that isn't part of the GMAC profile, it should be), and matching the throttle range to the output the CA is set to (which matches the Grinfineon's range, that is on the other wheel), and whatever the autotune changes.

Even after replacing the two dead halls, and seeing visually that the signals do change in the dashboard, I can see them all toggle as I manually very very slowly turn the wheel, the PR says the halls still don't work. I get the following result from the wheelspin part of the autotune:
20231005_191018.jpg

So I have to use sensorless only until I figure out why it thinks they're broken even though they're toggling. I'll probably have to break out the oscilloscope and use my L1019 extension cable to monitor the signals to see what's happening on each one.
 
I doubt it's a Phaserunner issue; it's probably something to do with the GMAC (which while it's a Grin product, I got it used, so I wouldn't really expect their help on it). Didn't have time to cable it up and scope it yet; been busy this weekend building the pair of UM's into wheels and doing other household stuff (there's always something).

I'm done building the first of the pair of UltraMotor wheels, just needs truing and a tire / tube (those are still on order; I want to use new ones so I can have a whole spare wheel with me at least until all this testing is done, and I don't want to use the old patched tubes or the old worn-out tires and then have to swap them out later).

Ran out of time for this weekend, but assuming the GMAC/PR survive this workweek, and the new tires/tubes show up in time, I'll swap the GMAC out for a newly-built UM wheel, and see if the PR keeps having to be restarted, and if it has the same hall signal issues with the UM, too.

If there is time after making sure the UM works with the PR, I'll also swap out the MXUS on the left that's run by a Grinfineon for the other UM, and then there will be,for the first time, "matched" motors on both sides of the trike. (still mismatched controllers, but that will be fixed if I ever get the Lebowski/Honda projects done).

Next posts will have some stuff about the Ultramotors, of which I have four.
 
This post is about the Ultramotors, of which I have four:

Two appear to be the same kind and winding (based on the DE5000 readings), from later A2B Metros that had external controllers. One of them came in a wheel, but about half the spokes suddenly failed during my ride home, for reasons I still haven't determined with certainty. The other came bare.

One (that came bare, and opened up) was probably from an earlier Metro with internal controller that's been removed (this one has one spoke hole broken off the flange on one side, and some slight winding damage from stuff bouncing around in the box it was shipped in.

One was from a Stromer and has had it's internal controller removed (this is the one I broke the axle on recently).

The last was originally a 26" wheel, and the others were 20", on their original bikes.

So far I've got the one A2B UM that came out of the wheel that disintegrated built into a new wheel, and I've got the ex-Stromer UM with the broken axle delaced from the broken rim.

All the spokes and nipples are fine, and will be used to relace this motor into an Alex DX32 rim (a different one from the one that had all it's spokes fail), as a spare wheel. First I will have to fix or replace the axle in the UM, probably swapping the whole stator core and axle out of the one with the broken spoke flange over to this motor housing, after I make sure the windings are intact and re-insulate them.

Below are some pics of the UM i've gotten relaced, both before I started with all the new parts around it, and after the lacing. Then there are pics of the other UMs, and readings of them from the DE-5000 LCR meter, showing the differences between the versions, and how similar the two are that came from A2B controller-less wheels.
 

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Rest of pics (apparently 20 is the limit now--better than 10, but....)

BTW, each set of meter pics startts with a pic of the meter with the motor it's measuring, and then those that follow are readings for each screen of data on that motor.
 

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The Phaserunner error is a "1-3 Current Sensor Calibration". It happens whenever the controller is shutoff for long enough; say, a minute. If i just turn power off, count to five, and turn it back on, it clears the error and operates as expected.

I noticed that when this error happens, it shows that "motor current" is some value, like 20A, while battery current is zero, and of course the motor is not being operated (no active throttle input, CA output to the PR throttle input is 1.19v with 1.20v as the start of active throttle response).



I have also had *one* PR shutdown during a ride, today, on the way home from work. I was in traffic so I couldn't do anything about it for almost a minute, until I reached the line of cars turning right at a red light, and was able to reach down and power cycle the trike while stopped, which cleared it, but I could not see the PR so don't know what blink code it was (didn't have time to wait for it to blink either).

Unlike when the first error happens, where it just doesn't run the motor, this on-ride shutdown left the GMAC dragging as if it were braking at almost half of maximum force, which is pretty hard. I thought that either the motor had failed a shorted winding or phase wire, or the PR had blown at least one phase FET bridge (thankfully, neither one).

Not being able to tell what the error code was is a bit disturbing; I wish it logged errors for later checking, but it doesn't--if you power cycle it, all errors are cleared. :(

I'll add pics of the error later.
 
I've gotten that shutdown during a ride twice more now, and both times I was able to pull over to see it; it's a slow double blink, so it blinks a long blink once, pauses, then blinks a long blink once again, then a long pause, then repeats.

So either that is
2-2 Instantaneous Phase Over Current
or
1-1 Controller Over Voltage
none of the others in the list in the manual match. I should carry the laptop with me to work so I can connect if I get the error and have the chance to pull over without shutting it down, so I can read the actual code with the PR suite.

Neither error makes sense to me given the situation:

As far as I can tell, it happens specifically when I am going up the bridge out of metrocenter, over the canal, where the pavement transitions from new and smooth to the large areas of inch+ deep missing chunks of asphalt over the concrete of the bridge itself. This last time, suspecting the rough ride was causing the lefthand ebrake lever to jiggle, possibly slightly triggering the start of braking repeatedly, I kept my fingers under the lever holding it disengaged, and it still occurred. So whatever is causing it isn't that, but it is almost certainly some form of connection or wiring that makes a good connection all the time *except* when being janked around *and* the motor is under power.

I go down this same spot every day on the way to work, but am coasting or actively braking rather than powering up the slope, and I do not have a problem. Same for almost every other really rough spot.

I examined all the wiring to and from the PR to the rest of the trike and can't find any issues, other than the already-known issue with the outer jacket of the cable to the GMAC at the axle entrance. I coated all of that area inside the cable with high voltage insulation enamel previously, when I had the GMAC opened up initially for cleaning out the original problem from it's self-disassembly, and rechecked it when I had it open again for the greasing, finding no problems, and nowhere that any of the wiring would contact anything even if it were exposed.

The wiring out of the PR itself is secured at two points just beyond the PR on the mounting bracket / heatsink, so it shoudln't be able to move around to cause connnection issues; same for the other power connection points.


This weekend I'll have to check it over in greater detail, opening up connector housings to see contacts and whatnot, where possible to do that nondestructively.


The tires and tubes arrived today for the "new" Ultramotor wheels, so this weekend will also hopefully see those finished and installed on the trike in place of the GMAC and the MXUS 450x motor.
 
Further clarification of on-the-way-home and powerup errors I've been getting:

It's happening specifically when I "drop" off the 1"+ expansion joint going uphill from the road to the bridge concrete, where the new pavement ends on the road (since they didn't repave the bridge itself, just left the chunks of lonely asphalt on it where they were, and repaved the road on either end of it right up to the expansion joint).

It does not happen going *up* the joint the other way (downhill) even if I hold throttle to max just before I reach the joint, or use max regen braking then.

Today there were at least two error codes. The first was
2-2 Instantaneous Phase Over Current
and the second was
5-4 Wheel Speed Sensor
I had to take a video (that took a couple of minutes) to be sure of remembering them correctly when I got home.


At work, before going home, I can turn the system on and there are *no* error codes; it sits in the breakroom all day at a fairly constant temperature that only varies from 26-28C.

At home before going to work, I can turn the system on and there is *always* an error code. Usually it is
1-3 Current Sensor Calibration
but yesterday it was
2-7 POST Dynamic Gate Test Outside Range
The temperature varies significantly over time, from as high as 35C (to as low as 26c) when I get home and park it, down to 17C (and as high as 30c) by morning when I start out.

Other than temperature variation, the conditions are the same between work (with no error at poweron) and home (always error at poweron).

State of charge has varied from 51v to 57v at the times of the powerup errors, and as low as 47v during the uphill bridge shutdown.
 
Before I collapsed for the evening I got the oscilloscope out and tested the hall signals on the GMAC, both hand-rotating the wheel and running it with the PR at full speed, and with the PR suite's wheel rotation test. They're nice square waves, no visible noise in the scope screen, etc.

The PR suite says that the problem with the halls is they aren't giving the expected combinations...which makes no sense, since it's using the built-in L1019 cable in both the GMAC and the PR6, directly connected (or thru the Grin extension, cut in half and then spliced together so I can access the signals), nothing's been rewired inside either one, and none of them are stuck on or off, and each toggles correctly per the scope trace.

Also, I would expect the PR could determine the correct hall/phase combo itself, and reassign hall sensors based on that, so that shouldn't be the problem even if either the GMAC or PR was factory miswired inside (swapping either a phase or hall wire somewhere).

I ran out of brainpower and was dozing off trying to make measurements so I left it all hooked up and shut the power off, and tomorrow I'll try manually swapping hall wires via the extension cable to see if it changes the problem or fixes it. If not, I have no idea what could possibly be wrong or how to correct it.


Regardless of the results, I'll then be removing the GMAC and putting the first of the rebuilt-wheel Ultramotors on there to true it up and verify it's operation with the PR6, and see if it will work sensored, or if the PR has the same hall problems. If it does, then it's more certainly a PR problem rather than a motor problem.

In the latter case, I'll then test the PR with the MXUS tha'ts on the other side of the trike, which has definitely working halls as it works fine in sensored sinewave mode with the Grinfineon there. If the PR still doesn't work sensored, it's probably broken and I'll have to talk to Grin about it.
 
Well, nothing I can do makes the GMAC halls work with the PR, and it makes no sense at all.

So on to the Ultramotor: Temporarily mounted it and cabled up the half-extension to plug it inot the PR, then verified all the halls toggle, and the thermistor reads correctly. Computer was busy trying to (unsuccessfully, for unknown reasons) clone the harddisk so couldn't actually test it with the PR for several hours.

Installed the UM completely and trued it up, then with the tube and tire on it (somehow pinch-cut the first tube :( ) and used zipties to ensure the tire was evenly seated all the way around, so it doesn't act like a badly-runout wheel.

20231015_153833.jpg

ONce the computer was available I did the autotune; forgot to screenshot the parameters to compare with the DE-5000 readings. Halls on the UM are recognized and working as "Bafang standard", whatever that means. (does this mean that if the PR or the setup software doesn't have a name for the pattern it sees, it can't use them?...research is needed).

I was about to put the trike upright again (have to do all this stuff with it on it's side) to do an onground test when I saw a very bad thing: the previously-broken and then reinforced main "keel" tube has broken again at the entrance to the cargo seatbox base frame. The reinforcement tube inside didn't break, but the outer keel tube broke just beyond the welds, pulled apart, along with the tubes that go up to the IGH mount in the frame above it.

I'm too tired and my guts hurt too much**** to do anything else tonight, so I'll have to fix this tomorrow (last day off this week). Guess I won't be lacing up the other UM and swapping it out for the MXUS on the left side this week...Going to be a while before I can get back to that, since the weather is finally getting cool enough long enough for me to do the long-delayed yardwork, so that's my next priority.

20231015_195433.jpg20231015_195555.jpg20231015_195509.jpg20231015_195452.jpg






****These started earlier this year; I've been testing different things in my diet and have found that it's likely to be wheat that is causing my gut pains--if I leave out all wheat products, I don't have problems, but if I eat any, it's like a morningstar being dragged thru my guts, and it takes at least a week to lessen to "discomfort" levels, and two or three to go back to more or less normal. (Doctors are, as usual, useless; have to do everything myself).
 
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