New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

beemac said:
skestans said:
I'm about to update from v0.6.5 to 1.1.0 and I was wondering if I need to reset the settings before/after updating or if I can leave them as is.

Also, do I want to flash v1.1.0 or v1.1.1 on the motor (both are in the 1.1.0 release)?

And should I go from 0.6.5 directly to 1.1.0, or should I upgrade to every version in-between until I get to 1.1.0?

My steps are going to be:

- Flash display (850C) from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0
- Check that it turns on etc without connecting it back to the motor (I am powering it from a power booster board, not from the battery)
- Flash the motor from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0 (1.1.1?)
- Connect the display to the motor and check if it works

Anything else I should be doing or are these steps ok?
Click to expand...

For the motor you should use 1.1.1 - no need to go via 1.1.0. @casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?

Not sure about the settings question - it's likely you'll need to reconfigure. I'd also recommend sure you keep the wheel off the ground when flashing the motor as I've had issues with motor starting when moving between versions when developing.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It ended up wiping my settings anyway so no need to reset before flashing.

The wiki says this about startup boost: "WARNING: do not enable/use BOOST feature because it is currently buggy." -- is this still current or is the warning not relevant anymore? What is buggy about it?
 
For the ones that want to upgrade to the new better TSDZ2 motor controller V2, you will need to buy the programmer J-Link. This costs about 4€ on Ebay, Aliexpress, etc, but can take like 4 or 6 weeks to arrive, so, you can now safely buy it right now and maybe in 1 or 2 months we will have the firmware ready!

I tested and documented the connections -- see here the full details: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_motor_controller_v2/blob/master/Documentation/how_to_develop.md

image.png


beemac said:
@casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?
Click to expand...
Done.
 
skestans said:
beemac said:
skestans said:
I'm about to update from v0.6.5 to 1.1.0 and I was wondering if I need to reset the settings before/after updating or if I can leave them as is.

Also, do I want to flash v1.1.0 or v1.1.1 on the motor (both are in the 1.1.0 release)?

And should I go from 0.6.5 directly to 1.1.0, or should I upgrade to every version in-between until I get to 1.1.0?

My steps are going to be:

- Flash display (850C) from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0
- Check that it turns on etc without connecting it back to the motor (I am powering it from a power booster board, not from the battery)
- Flash the motor from 0.6.5 to 1.1.0 (1.1.1?)
- Connect the display to the motor and check if it works

Anything else I should be doing or are these steps ok?
Click to expand...

For the motor you should use 1.1.1 - no need to go via 1.1.0. @casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?

Not sure about the settings question - it's likely you'll need to reconfigure. I'd also recommend sure you keep the wheel off the ground when flashing the motor as I've had issues with motor starting when moving between versions when developing.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It ended up wiping my settings anyway so no need to reset before flashing.

The wiki says this about startup boost: "WARNING: do not enable/use BOOST feature because it is currently buggy." -- is this still current or is the warning not relevant anymore? What is buggy about it?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure - there are people using it but it's not something i've used mainly due to that warning - but it is something on my (long) list to port to the wireless controller at which point I'll need to know what the bugs are in order to hopefully fix...

Search on the thread - i'm sure i've seen recommended settings for boost posted so there must be people using it ok.
 
casainho said:
For the ones that want to upgrade to the new better TSDZ2 motor controller V2, you will need to buy the programmer J-Link. This costs about 4€ on Ebay, Aliexpress, etc, but can take like 4 or 6 weeks to arrive, so, you can now safely buy it right now and maybe in 1 or 2 months we will have the firmware ready!

I tested and documented the connections -- see here the full details: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_motor_controller_v2/blob/master/Documentation/how_to_develop.md

image.png


beemac said:
@casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?
Click to expand...
Done.
Click to expand...
:thumb:

waiting for my jlink clone - would have bought the segger edu version but it's out of stock everywhere I looked in the UK unless you wanted to buy 12... :roll:
 
beemac said:
casainho said:
For the ones that want to upgrade to the new better TSDZ2 motor controller V2, you will need to buy the programmer J-Link. This costs about 4€ on Ebay, Aliexpress, etc, but can take like 4 or 6 weeks to arrive, so, you can now safely buy it right now and maybe in 1 or 2 months we will have the firmware ready!

I tested and documented the connections -- see here the full details: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_motor_controller_v2/blob/master/Documentation/how_to_develop.md

image.png


beemac said:
@casainho we should remove 1.1.0 really don't you think?
Click to expand...
Done.
Click to expand...
:thumb:

waiting for my jlink clone - would have bought the segger edu version but it's out of stock everywhere I looked in the UK unless you wanted to buy 12... :roll:
Click to expand...
Initial code to set the motor phase current IqRef/ torque, depending on the throttle value, is here: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_motor_controller_v2/blob/master/DAVE_FOC_PROJECT/main.c

My next step is to prepare / adapt a Makefile so we do not depend on their IDE to build, debug and flash the code.

image.png
 
Hey guys, I just wanted to share some info. I'm pretty sure it's a repeat from elsewhere on the forum, but with so many TSDZ2 topics with lots of pages, it might be useful. So I was looking into fixing the different crank offset requirement between the left and the right crank, with the Lekkie Buz Bars being the obvious choice, however they are expensive. Stock ones aren't of great quality, so I ordered two Shimano crank arms - FC-E6000 for the right one and FC-E6010 for the left one. These are sold separately, not that expensive and have a huge difference in offset, but the design is very similar. Available easily in 170 and 175mm. They are of great quality, being Shimano. I've put two FC-E6000 cranks on my other bike with a Bafang motor and I love them. Pictures:

Shimano_Steps_FC-E6000_Kurbelarm_Links_silver[1920x1920].jpg


Shimano_Steps_FC-E6000_Kurbelarm_Links_silver[1920x1920].jpg


Shimano_Steps_FC-E6010_Kurbelarm_Rechts_black[1920x1920].jpg


Shimano_Steps_FC-E6010_Kurbelarm_Rechts_black[1920x1920].jpg


Also, one can take a look for the FC-E5010 arms, just Google them. They do have some offset too and a more "intricate" design.
 
I'm looking to replace the rear cassette with an Internal Geared Hub on my '93 DiamondBack Overdrive. Installed 48v TSDZ2 with 52v battery last summer. Mostly used as commuter and on paved trail rides in/around Seattle.

Interested in hearing from others about their IGH experiences. Compatibility, performance, durability, etc.

Thanks!
 
We have a Nihola cargo trike with the TSDZ2 and a Nexus 8 speed IGH. No problems with that combination whatsoever in approx 650km so far.
Total weight of rider/bike/dog is about 135kg, only paved roads/trails so far and we do take care to not shift under load.
The Alfine 8 speed hub is supposedly even a bit more rugged internally. Shimano's own literature shows these hubs being used with their ebike motor so you should be fine.
 
Huguenot said:
We have a Nihola cargo trike with the TSDZ2 and a Nexus 8 speed IGH. No problems with that combination whatsoever in approx 650km so far.
Total weight of rider/bike/dog is about 135kg, only paved roads/trails so far and we do take care to not shift under load.
The Alfine 8 speed hub is supposedly even a bit more rugged internally. Shimano's own literature shows these hubs being used with their ebike motor so you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Pictures of your cargo bike, more build details here: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/Huguenot-Nihola-cargo-trike

TSDZ2_cargo2.jpg


TSDZ2_cargo1.jpg
 
hey all, i have a problem I'd like to ask.

so i updated the firmware from like 0.6.2 to 1.1.0

and the strange thing i found was that if i ghost pedal the motor will still activate, for example if i was going downhill. video here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/GPVCzaziFyQgPHmo6

(the top right box is "human power")

is this related to some setting that i'm not aware of?

edit: nvm later i realized its the wrong assist level
 
adrian783 said:
hey all, i have a problem I'd like to ask.

so i updated the firmware from like 0.6.2 to 1.1.0

and the strange thing i found was that if i ghost pedal the motor will still activate, for example if i was going downhill. video here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/GPVCzaziFyQgPHmo6

(the top right box is "human power")

is this related to some setting that i'm not aware of?

edit: nvm later i realized its the wrong assist level
Click to expand...

I have the same issue. How did you solve it? It happens at all assist levels for me.
 
About the temperature sensor, the wiki says:

> [If you are getting your LM35 from Ali/ebay, not Mouser/Digikey then you might want to test them at 100C (in steam) before fitting, to be sure they work properly, as the calibration of random chinese knockoffs is not something you can be confident in. (and some are reported to just not work at all)]

But this is confusing to me. AFAIK, steam is hotter than 100C. According to this table[0], steam is 120.42C at 1 atm. If I were to boil water and dip the LM35 in, then that would be 100C, but I can't really dip it in without also shorting all its pins in the water/burning my fingers.

How is that done in practice?

Also wondering about the Color_LCD repo and reporting issues. Should it be done on GitHub issues (easier to track and visualize IMHO) or in this thread (very hard to see and keep track of)? Regarding GH issues, I'd be happy to volunteer triaging the issues and tagging them per display, version, etc if that helps.

[0]: https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/steam-tables/
 
So I’m installing the temperature sensor and my board looks different… it looks like I don’t have a GND wire where it should be according to the wiki.

The red wire above the arrow is the 5V, the blue wire to the left is the throttle, but it looks like I have no ground wire!! It should be in between the red and white according to the picture on the wiki.

What do I do? I don’t want to dig out the protective coating, where else could I catch a GND connection?

 
skestans said:
So I’m installing the temperature sensor and my board looks different… it looks like I don’t have a GND wire where it should be according to the wiki.

The red wire above the arrow is the 5V, the blue wire to the left is the throttle, but it looks like I have no ground wire!! It should be in between the red and white according to the picture on the wiki.

What do I do? I don’t want to dig out the protective coating, where else could I catch a GND connection?
Click to expand...

The black wire in the loom going to the display is GND. They moved it at some point. Just splice into that.

For reference here is a video I made a while ago, near the end if you look carefully you can see the black wire in the display loom goes off somewhere else on the board. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2U7PKTt02s
 
skestans said:
But this is confusing to me. AFAIK, steam is hotter than 100C. According to this table[0], steam is 120.42C at 1 atm. If I were to boil water and dip the LM35 in, then that would be 100C, but I can't really dip it in without also shorting all its pins in the water/burning my fingers.

How is that done in practice?

[0]: https://www.valvesonline.com.au/references/steam-tables/
Click to expand...

This chart refers to additional pressure. At atmospheric pressure water boils at 100C and the steam temperature is the same. If the pressure is more then the boiling point rises and that would cause the steam to be in a higher temperature as well.
 
casainho said:
Huguenot said:
We have a Nihola cargo trike with the TSDZ2 and a Nexus 8 speed IGH. No problems with that combination whatsoever in approx 650km so far.
Total weight of rider/bike/dog is about 135kg, only paved roads/trails so far and we do take care to not shift under load.
The Alfine 8 speed hub is supposedly even a bit more rugged internally. Shimano's own literature shows these hubs being used with their ebike motor so you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Pictures of your cargo bike, more build details here: https://github.com/OpenSourceEBike/TSDZ2_wiki/wiki/Huguenot-Nihola-cargo-trike
Click to expand...

@Huguenot, @casainho thanks for sharing. Looks impressive.

I inquired about doing an IGH conversion at my LBS. They said come back with your bike for a 1 conversation. :lol:
 
So I finally got around to installing the temperature sensor. I had to use the alternative ground connection because my controller doesn't have the ground wire that was marked on the schematic.

Before closing it all back together, I powered it on to check all was working. The display could read the temperature, and I could use the walk assist to get the motor rotating.

So I close it all back, and I power it on to check everything. Of course now there is a problem.

I can see the temperature displaying on the graph just fine. I can get the display to show the current speed if I spin the rear wheel. I can get a reading from the torque sensor when pushing on the pedals so I'm assuming it still works (it isn't worn down like on the FAQ picture). But if I use the walk assist, or push on the pedals, nothing happens: the motor doesn't do anything anymore. I can't understand why.

I checked that I am not in assist level 0. I checked that the battery voltage is configured properly (battery is at 58V at the moment). All other settings, I didn't touch since before I installed the temp sensor (except to activate the temp sensor) and the bike was working fine. I opened the motor again (non drive side only) to check that the two connectors inside are properly connected: they are. I checked that I didn't cross the three wires connecting to the motor (blue green yellow), and they match the colors of the wires coming into the motor. I checked all the other connectors between the motor and the display, they're all engaged all the way.

I can't pull the controller back out because the silicon plug around the cables on the drive side is still curing and I'm out of silicon to re-seal it once I take them out. But even if I could pull it out, I'm not sure what I'd find there. My temp sensor works so whatever splicing I did must be good. I checked the two white connectors (I can see them without pulling the controller out) and they're connected. All the other cables are still going through the protective gel and I didn't touch that gel so presumably they're still connected.

I'm out of options, and gutted that my bike doesn't work anymore. What could possibly be wrong? What should I check to figure out what the problem is?

EDIT: If I disable the temperature sensor, then it all works fine! So it looks like enabling the temperature sensor keeps the motor from engaging at all either with walk assist or with the pedals. At least I didn't break my bike! I will try to connect a throttle and see what happens/if the throttle works tomorrow when I dig it out of the basement. Could it be a bug? Is anyone else using 1.1.0/1.1.1 with the temperature sensor on a v1 48V controller and a 52V battery?
 
skestans said:
So I finally got around to installing the temperature sensor. I had to use the alternative ground connection because my controller doesn't have the ground wire that was marked on the schematic.

Before closing it all back together, I powered it on to check all was working. The display could read the temperature, and I could use the walk assist to get the motor rotating.

So I close it all back, and I power it on to check everything. Of course now there is a problem.

I can see the temperature displaying on the graph just fine. I can get the display to show the current speed if I spin the rear wheel. I can get a reading from the torque sensor when pushing on the pedals so I'm assuming it still works (it isn't worn down like on the FAQ picture). But if I use the walk assist, or push on the pedals, nothing happens: the motor doesn't do anything anymore. I can't understand why.

I checked that I am not in assist level 0. I checked that the battery voltage is configured properly (battery is at 58V at the moment). All other settings, I didn't touch since before I installed the temp sensor (except to activate the temp sensor) and the bike was working fine. I opened the motor again (non drive side only) to check that the two connectors inside are properly connected: they are. I checked that I didn't cross the three wires connecting to the motor (blue green yellow), and they match the colors of the wires coming into the motor. I checked all the other connectors between the motor and the display, they're all engaged all the way.

I can't pull the controller back out because the silicon plug around the cables on the drive side is still curing and I'm out of silicon to re-seal it once I take them out. But even if I could pull it out, I'm not sure what I'd find there. My temp sensor works so whatever splicing I did must be good. I checked the two white connectors (I can see them without pulling the controller out) and they're connected. All the other cables are still going through the protective gel and I didn't touch that gel so presumably they're still connected.

I'm out of options, and gutted that my bike doesn't work anymore. What could possibly be wrong? What should I check to figure out what the problem is?
Click to expand...
Maybe temperature limits configurations?
 
skestans said:
So I finally got around to installing the temperature sensor. I had to use the alternative ground connection because my controller doesn't have the ground wire that was marked on the schematic.

Before closing it all back together, I powered it on to check all was working. The display could read the temperature, and I could use the walk assist to get the motor rotating.

So I close it all back, and I power it on to check everything. Of course now there is a problem.

I can see the temperature displaying on the graph just fine. I can get the display to show the current speed if I spin the rear wheel. I can get a reading from the torque sensor when pushing on the pedals so I'm assuming it still works (it isn't worn down like on the FAQ picture). But if I use the walk assist, or push on the pedals, nothing happens: the motor doesn't do anything anymore. I can't understand why.

I checked that I am not in assist level 0. I checked that the battery voltage is configured properly (battery is at 58V at the moment). All other settings, I didn't touch since before I installed the temp sensor (except to activate the temp sensor) and the bike was working fine. I opened the motor again (non drive side only) to check that the two connectors inside are properly connected: they are. I checked that I didn't cross the three wires connecting to the motor (blue green yellow), and they match the colors of the wires coming into the motor. I checked all the other connectors between the motor and the display, they're all engaged all the way.

I can't pull the controller back out because the silicon plug around the cables on the drive side is still curing and I'm out of silicon to re-seal it once I take them out. But even if I could pull it out, I'm not sure what I'd find there. My temp sensor works so whatever splicing I did must be good. I checked the two white connectors (I can see them without pulling the controller out) and they're connected. All the other cables are still going through the protective gel and I didn't touch that gel so presumably they're still connected.

I'm out of options, and gutted that my bike doesn't work anymore. What could possibly be wrong? What should I check to figure out what the problem is?
Click to expand...

Stupid question, but I assume you have motor temperature limit setting set to "temperature" and not disabled or throttle? If so, maybe set it to disabled briefly just to check if that makes the assist come back to life?
 
casainho said:
skestans said:
So I finally got around to installing the temperature sensor. I had to use the alternative ground connection because my controller doesn't have the ground wire that was marked on the schematic.

Before closing it all back together, I powered it on to check all was working. The display could read the temperature, and I could use the walk assist to get the motor rotating.

So I close it all back, and I power it on to check everything. Of course now there is a problem.

I can see the temperature displaying on the graph just fine. I can get the display to show the current speed if I spin the rear wheel. I can get a reading from the torque sensor when pushing on the pedals so I'm assuming it still works (it isn't worn down like on the FAQ picture). But if I use the walk assist, or push on the pedals, nothing happens: the motor doesn't do anything anymore. I can't understand why.

I checked that I am not in assist level 0. I checked that the battery voltage is configured properly (battery is at 58V at the moment). All other settings, I didn't touch since before I installed the temp sensor (except to activate the temp sensor) and the bike was working fine. I opened the motor again (non drive side only) to check that the two connectors inside are properly connected: they are. I checked that I didn't cross the three wires connecting to the motor (blue green yellow), and they match the colors of the wires coming into the motor. I checked all the other connectors between the motor and the display, they're all engaged all the way.

I can't pull the controller back out because the silicon plug around the cables on the drive side is still curing and I'm out of silicon to re-seal it once I take them out. But even if I could pull it out, I'm not sure what I'd find there. My temp sensor works so whatever splicing I did must be good. I checked the two white connectors (I can see them without pulling the controller out) and they're connected. All the other cables are still going through the protective gel and I didn't touch that gel so presumably they're still connected.

I'm out of options, and gutted that my bike doesn't work anymore. What could possibly be wrong? What should I check to figure out what the problem is?
Click to expand...
Maybe temperature limits configurations?
Click to expand...

Graph shows current temp around 25C (ambient), and the limits are set to 75 and 85 (the defaults in the menu). Interestingly, if I disable the temp sensor in the menu then the assist is back. Could it be a bug in the software rather than a failure in my hardware?
 
So try to change that both limit values... and I hope you are in SI units.

Also may help to reset the display, as all the variables will have the default values.
 
casainho said:
So try to change that both limit values... and I hope you are in SI units.

Also may help to reset the display, as all the variables will have the default values.
Click to expand...
Resetting via Display > Reset and then enabling the temp sensor + setting assist level to 1 has the same problem: no assist. Disabling it without changing anything else and assist works again. I also tried raising the temp limits (in SI) to 118 and 135 but still no assist.

My setup: 52V battery on a 48V motor. Motor runs v1.1.1, display is a 850C running v1.1.0 without anything else other than the three button remote connected (no brake sensor, no shifter sensor, no lights)
 
skestans said:
So I finally got around to installing the temperature sensor. I had to use the alternative ground connection because my controller doesn't have the ground wire that was marked on the schematic.

Before closing it all back together, I powered it on to check all was working. The display could read the temperature, and I could use the walk assist to get the motor rotating.

So I close it all back, and I power it on to check everything. Of course now there is a problem.

I can see the temperature displaying on the graph just fine. I can get the display to show the current speed if I spin the rear wheel. I can get a reading from the torque sensor when pushing on the pedals so I'm assuming it still works (it isn't worn down like on the FAQ picture). But if I use the walk assist, or push on the pedals, nothing happens: the motor doesn't do anything anymore. I can't understand why.

I checked that I am not in assist level 0. I checked that the battery voltage is configured properly (battery is at 58V at the moment). All other settings, I didn't touch since before I installed the temp sensor (except to activate the temp sensor) and the bike was working fine. I opened the motor again (non drive side only) to check that the two connectors inside are properly connected: they are. I checked that I didn't cross the three wires connecting to the motor (blue green yellow), and they match the colors of the wires coming into the motor. I checked all the other connectors between the motor and the display, they're all engaged all the way.

I can't pull the controller back out because the silicon plug around the cables on the drive side is still curing and I'm out of silicon to re-seal it once I take them out. But even if I could pull it out, I'm not sure what I'd find there. My temp sensor works so whatever splicing I did must be good. I checked the two white connectors (I can see them without pulling the controller out) and they're connected. All the other cables are still going through the protective gel and I didn't touch that gel so presumably they're still connected.

I'm out of options, and gutted that my bike doesn't work anymore. What could possibly be wrong? What should I check to figure out what the problem is?

EDIT: If I disable the temperature sensor, then it all works fine! So it looks like enabling the temperature sensor keeps the motor from engaging at all either with walk assist or with the pedals. At least I didn't break my bike! I will try to connect a throttle and see what happens/if the throttle works tomorrow when I dig it out of the basement. Could it be a bug? Is anyone else using 1.1.0/1.1.1 with the temperature sensor on a v1 48V controller and a 52V battery?
Click to expand...

I run 1.1.0/1.1.1 on v1 48v boards with 52v battery and temp sensor - it's definitely a working config.

When I had a similar issue to you - it was the PAS sensor not working - are you sure you're putting the controller board back in fully so the black lump at the end (PAS sensor) is in the right place.

Oh but you say walk assist doesn't work either.... that wouldn't stop working if it was a PAS problem...

edit: oh but I don't use an 850c - only the wireless controller - tbh I've not had a chance to test 850c with motor fw 1.1.1 - the changes in 1.1.1 shouldn't make any difference to the controller but of course there might be something odd going on.
 
beemac said:
I run 1.1.0/1.1.1 on v1 48v boards with 52v battery and temp sensor - it's definitely a working config.

When I had a similar issue to you - it was the PAS sensor not working - are you sure you're putting the controller board back in fully so the black lump at the end (PAS sensor) is in the right place.

Oh but you say walk assist doesn't work either.... that wouldn't stop working if it was a PAS problem...

edit: oh but I don't use an 850c - only the wireless controller - tbh I've not had a chance to test 850c with motor fw 1.1.1 - the changes in 1.1.1 shouldn't make any difference to the controller but of course there might be something odd going on.
Click to expand...

I'm positive the PAS sensor and everything else works like it should, because if I disable the temperature sensor in the config then everything works as it should. Theproblem only occurs if I have the temp sensor set to enabled in the settings.
 
Hello casainho ! Finally, after almost two years of tsdz2 and a year of your wonderful firmware release...I'm goin to install the temperature sensor! :mrgreen:

HERE my question: I would rather install the sensor on the motor itself ( magnets, induct), so probably the measurement it's even more precise...so I would put it in the spot I circled in the picture! What do you ( also you guys) think? would it make any difference from the usual spot everybody uses? I guess it will also easier to stick :D
or maybe there is a specific reason of that usual spot that I don't know...

THANK YOU!!!

casainho said:
Pictures of my latest build (Decatlhon Rockrider 540S M size frame) using TSDZ2, a new bicycle shared for my girlfriend and son (yes, he has already almost his height).

I will update the wiki with some of this new pictures and information.

Fixing TSDZ2 to the bicycle full suspension frame and also adding a support for the chain ring gears since original support must be removed to install TSDZ2:










Adding the temperature sensor, for the first time I used double side thermal tape that I bought on Ebay -- this way I make sure sensor has a very good contact with the motor case, and hence a good reading.
That motor controller has the 6 pins and so I had to access to PCB and solder wires to the temperature sensor.






My bicycle compared to this new one:


He is so happy!!


Click to expand...
 

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