New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[casainho]

Hello casainho ! Finally, after almost two years of tsdz2 and a year of your wonderful firmware release...I'm goin to install the temperature sensor!

HERE my question: I would rather install the sensor on the motor itself ( magnets, induct), so probably the measurement it's even more precise...so I would put it in the spot I circled in the picture! What do you ( also you guys) think? would it make any difference from the usual spot everybody uses? I guess it will also easier to stick
or maybe there is a specific reason of that usual spot that I don't know...

All this is experimental, you need to test and figure out how it works.

 

[JohnAnanda]

HERE my question: I would rather install the sensor on the motor itself ( magnets, induct), so probably the measurement it's even more precise...so I would put it in the spot I circled in the picture! What do you ( also you guys) think? would it make any difference from the usual spot everybody uses? I guess it will also easier to stick

This is where I placed it as well (but in the part facing the controller, the rest of the motor being wrapped with aluminium shims for cooling). It seemed to me that the motor laminations get hot first since they are directly against the windings.
It works well, but I haven't done any comparision test with the sensor attached to the aluminium flanges.

 

[electroriderIT]

Thankx man, Yes let's experiment .....I guess it docent make much difference so I will decide the position based on the way I will stick it on the motor!

Hello casainho ! Finally, after almost two years of tsdz2 and a year of your wonderful firmware release...I'm goin to install the temperature sensor!

HERE my question: I would rather install the sensor on the motor itself ( magnets, induct), so probably the measurement it's even more precise...so I would put it in the spot I circled in the picture! What do you ( also you guys) think? would it make any difference from the usual spot everybody uses? I guess it will also easier to stick
or maybe there is a specific reason of that usual spot that I don't know...

All this is experimental, you need to test and figure out how it works.

 

[electroriderIT]

Cool! how did you made it stick? Yes I agree that laminations are more directly related to the actual temperature of the delicate parts of the motor!!
By the way....what is the highest temperature not to over pass???

HERE my question: I would rather install the sensor on the motor itself ( magnets, induct), so probably the measurement it's even more precise...so I would put it in the spot I circled in the picture! What do you ( also you guys) think? would it make any difference from the usual spot everybody uses? I guess it will also easier to stick

This is where I placed it as well (but in the part facing the controller, the rest of the motor being wrapped with aluminium shims for cooling). It seemed to me that the motor laminations get hot first since they are directly against the windings.
It works well, but I haven't done any comparision test with the sensor attached to the aluminium flanges.

 

[ilu]

I put the sensor at the same spot as well. I don't have any specific thermal adhesive so I used a drop of regular super glue mixed with a drop of silver thermal compound.

 

[JohnAnanda]

Cool! how did you made it stick?

I used thermal compound https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32956752708.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27426c379bE71i
It conducts heat like thermal grease, except that it dries and sticks like glue after 24h.

what is the highest temperature not to over pass?

It's not precisely known, but people seem to agree it should not go over 90°C.
I've set mine to 70°C lower limit and 85°C upper limit (which I never reached).

 

[skestans]

Cool! how did you made it stick? Yes I agree that laminations are more directly related to the actual temperature of the delicate parts of the motor!!
By the way....what is the highest temperature not to over pass???

What display and software versions do you use with the temperature sensor?

 

[electroriderIT]

Latest Casainho release with 850c display

Cool! how did you made it stick? Yes I agree that laminations are more directly related to the actual temperature of the delicate parts of the motor!!
By the way....what is the highest temperature not to over pass???

What display and software versions do you use with the temperature sensor?

 

[Akita]

Problems with ST LINK.

ST LINK in the Device Manager Events
Device USB\VID_0483&PID_3748\5&ecb7860&0&4 was configured.

When I try to download the engine firmware in the STVP program, I get the following error message.
What's wrong?

Error : Cannot communicate with the device !
Check the SWIM cable connection and check all the needed pin connections on the SWIM connector.

If the application code uses Swim Disable and Reset pin as Output or has disabled SWIM Clock Divider:
Try Now to SWITCH OFF and ON the application Power Supply while NRST Reset pin is forced low.

Error : < PROGRAM MEMORY reading failed.
Error : < Operation aborted

 

[skestans]

Latest Casainho release with 850c display

Cool! how did you made it stick? Yes I agree that laminations are more directly related to the actual temperature of the delicate parts of the motor!!
By the way....what is the highest temperature not to over pass???

What display and software versions do you use with the temperature sensor?

Interesting, can you get the temp sensor enabled and assist working?

 

[Elinx]

......
Error : Cannot communicate with the device !
Check the SWIM cable connection and check all the needed pin connections on the SWIM connector.....

From which seller does your Tsdz2 come from?

 

[skestans]

......
Error : Cannot communicate with the device !
Check the SWIM cable connection and check all the needed pin connections on the SWIM connector.....

From which seller does your Tsdz2 come from?

Deleted my original post. I completely missed the point and my reply didn’t make any sense in the context please disregard.

 

[electroriderIT]

HELP!

Guys I finished installing the temp sensor, I'm used to soldering and stuff so no problem.
I opened the motor mainly to clean the excessive grease mess around the torque sensor that I believe was making the swings "stick" and the sensor working not good ( see my post here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1657027#p1657027 )....

So I cleaned everything, put all back toghether, power it up, enabled the temperature sensor...the temperature is perfectly and very precisely reported.
BUT THE MOTOR DOESN'T WORK WHEN I PEDAL!!!
it does work with walk assist, so it spins, everything else if fine...but it like that the sensor doesn't get my pedal force or something!

checked all the wires and they are fine.

HOW CAN I CHECK THE TORQUE SENSOR WITH THE MULTIMETER TO KNOW IF IT'S FAULTY?

i made a short and messy video if someone understands from it if the torque is reading force on the pedals...I cannot get it!

HELP ME GUYS!!!

ps: i also double checked unplugging the temperature sensor but the problem persists.





[youtube]https://youtu.be/Y1QO6Jrw2-c[/youtube]

Latest Casainho release with 850c display

Cool! how did you made it stick? Yes I agree that laminations are more directly related to the actual temperature of the delicate parts of the motor!!
By the way....what is the highest temperature not to over pass???

What display and software versions do you use with the temperature sensor?

Interesting, can you get the temp sensor enabled and assist working?

 

[Akita]

......
Error : Cannot communicate with the device !
Check the SWIM cable connection and check all the needed pin connections on the SWIM connector.....

From which seller does your Tsdz2 come from?

https://enerprof.de/en/motor-kits/motor-kits-36v/only-motor-kits/686/tongsheng-tsdz2-36v-250w-mid-motor-accessories-with-break-coaster?c=202

ST LINK ok according to W10 but
STVP cannot communicate with the device.
Is there any program other than STVP that I can test if ST LINK works.

 

[Elinx]

...
https://enerprof.de/en/motor-kits/motor-kits-36v/only-motor-kits/686/tongsheng-tsdz2-36v-250w-mid-motor-accessories-with-break-coaster?c=202

Nothing wrong with the ST-link, but......
You bought a Tsdz2 with the new 2020 motor controller that can't be flashed with ST-link.
I already had told this here. Maybe you haved missed that.
EnerProf Germany sells the Tsdz2 only with this new controller.
You have to wait patiently for a version that is intended for that new controller,
or replace that controller for and old version (not from EnerProf) and flash OSF.

 

[casainho]

HOW CAN I CHECK THE TORQUE SENSOR WITH THE MULTIMETER TO KNOW IF IT'S FAULTY?

You can check on the display the torque sensor value as also the cadence sensor value. If both are working, then torque sensor should be fine.

 

[electroriderIT]

thank you Casainho for helping me out with this…it’s frustrating….I got to understand the problem and solve it ….

In the “technical” menu I have those values…don’t know if they are correct or too low, but the motor doesn’t ingage


Hope you meant those ….

What do you think?
I also read that the 5 pin wires that comes from the motor must not be too close to the 3 phase wires…I will try to change their position…now are attached

HOW CAN I CHECK THE TORQUE SENSOR WITH THE MULTIMETER TO KNOW IF IT'S FAULTY?

You can check on the display the torque sensor value as also the cadence sensor value. If both are working, then torque sensor should be fine.

 

[casainho]

thank you Casainho for helping me out with this…it’s frustrating….I got to understand the problem and solve it ….

In the “technical” menu I have those values…don’t know if they are correct or too low, but the motor doesn’t ingage
78112D99-4E83-499D-90CA-A4D562C1346F.jpeg

Hope you meant those ….

What do you think?
I also read that the 5 pin wires that comes from the motor must not be too close to the 3 phase wires…I will try to change their position…now are attached

HOW CAN I CHECK THE TORQUE SENSOR WITH THE MULTIMETER TO KNOW IF IT'S FAULTY?

You can check on the display the torque sensor value as also the cadence sensor value. If both are working, then torque sensor should be fine.

Ok, cadence seems to be ok as also torque sensor, as long torque sensor ADC values increase when you press the pedals.

Maybe the issue is some wrong configuration??
Other way I can't understand why

 

[Akita]

...
https://enerprof.de/en/motor-kits/motor-kits-36v/only-motor-kits/686/tongsheng-tsdz2-36v-250w-mid-motor-accessories-with-break-coaster?c=202

Nothing wrong with the ST-link, but......
You bought a Tsdz2 with the new 2020 motor controller that can't be flashed with ST-link.
I already had told this here. Maybe you haved missed that.
EnerProf Germany sells the Tsdz2 only with this new controller.
You have to wait patiently for a version that is intended for that new controller,
or replace that controller for and old version (not from EnerProf) and flash OSF.

Thanks!
I missed that.
That's why I chose Tongsheng that it went flash.

Can I flash the old controller before I mount it on the engine?

 

[electroriderIT]

OK..Thank you...I made a video of the state of the art right now. I reassembled everything very carefully, routed the 5 wires not in contact with the 3 phase wires.

The problem that you see in the video is that if I power up the unit, wait, start pedaling ....the motor doesn't engage BUT if after start pedaling , I stop for a moment pushing on the pedals and then push them again (without letting the bike stop), the motor starts!!! and then everything seems to work good, even the sensibility of the torque itself. it's like the torque doesn't engage well .... I noticed also that if I "kick" the pedals, then the torque "unlocks" and it works....
[youtube]9ImPFxDXXXk[/youtube]
In the video you see that I start and nothing happens, then you can hear the motor just after I stop and restart pedaling without letting the bike stop...then when I stop completely (00:50 second of the video) and start pedaling..nothing happens until I release the force and put back on the pedals.....soooo strange!!!

The torque sensor from my close inspection, looks good so I don't know if it could be malfunctioning anyway and if there is a way to test it before buy a new one.....but the data from the "technical" menu are good?.....

thank you Casainho for helping me out with this…it’s frustrating….I got to understand the problem and solve it ….

In the “technical” menu I have those values…don’t know if they are correct or too low, but the motor doesn’t ingage
78112D99-4E83-499D-90CA-A4D562C1346F.jpeg

Hope you meant those ….

What do you think?
I also read that the 5 pin wires that comes from the motor must not be too close to the 3 phase wires…I will try to change their position…now are attached

HOW CAN I CHECK THE TORQUE SENSOR WITH THE MULTIMETER TO KNOW IF IT'S FAULTY?

You can check on the display the torque sensor value as also the cadence sensor value. If both are working, then torque sensor should be fine.

Ok, cadence seems to be ok as also torque sensor, as long torque sensor ADC values increase when you press the pedals.

Maybe the issue is some wrong configuration??
Other way I can't understand why

 

[Elinx]

.....
That's why I chose Tongsheng that it went flash.

In that case for now, the only option is to replace that new 2020 controller.
Only remark is that you can't be sure you order an old controller version.
With International sellers that chance is high, because there are no signals that they sell the new version too.

Flashing a controller before mounting should be possible, because you don't need batterypower.
You only need to connect swim/5V/gnd to the ST-link. (I have never tried this myself)
But you can't test it without connecting the cables and battery.

About the new controller ....
You maybe can find usefull information on the (ofcourse) German pedelec forum.
The stock controller FW should handle the motor better than the stock old version.

 

[hetm4n]

what is the pinout of the brake sensor in tsdz2 on this plug?

 

[skestans]

HELP!

Guys I finished installing the temp sensor, I'm used to soldering and stuff so no problem.
I opened the motor mainly to clean the excessive grease mess around the torque sensor that I believe was making the swings "stick" and the sensor working not good ( see my post here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1657027#p1657027 )....

So I cleaned everything, put all back toghether, power it up, enabled the temperature sensor...the temperature is perfectly and very precisely reported.
BUT THE MOTOR DOESN'T WORK WHEN I PEDAL!!!
it does work with walk assist, so it spins, everything else if fine...but it like that the sensor doesn't get my pedal force or something!

That's why I was asking. On the latest Casainho (1.1.0 + 1.1.1) and 850C, if I enable the temp sensor in settings, I get no walk assist and no pedal assist. Disable the temp sensor and everything works perfectly (but no temp sensing obviously, although I do get a reading in the technical screen for the throttle which if it is mV matches what a working temp sensor would output given the ambient temperature)

Try disabling the temp sensor and see if it doesn't fix your issue.

That looks more and more like a software issue to me.

 

[beemac]

HELP!

Guys I finished installing the temp sensor, I'm used to soldering and stuff so no problem.
I opened the motor mainly to clean the excessive grease mess around the torque sensor that I believe was making the swings "stick" and the sensor working not good ( see my post here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1657027#p1657027 )....

So I cleaned everything, put all back toghether, power it up, enabled the temperature sensor...the temperature is perfectly and very precisely reported.
BUT THE MOTOR DOESN'T WORK WHEN I PEDAL!!!
it does work with walk assist, so it spins, everything else if fine...but it like that the sensor doesn't get my pedal force or something!

That's why I was asking. On the latest Casainho (1.1.0 + 1.1.1) and 850C, if I enable the temp sensor in settings, I get no walk assist and no pedal assist. Disable the temp sensor and everything works perfectly (but no temp sensing obviously, although I do get a reading in the technical screen for the throttle which if it is mV matches what a working temp sensor would output given the ambient temperature)

Try disabling the temp sensor and see if it doesn't fix your issue.

That looks more and more like a software issue to me.

The issues aren't the same though...

@electroriderIT if walk assist works - i've had those symptoms and for me it was the PAS/cadence sensor. If that's not working even if the torque sensor is working you won't get any assist. Make sure the controller is well seated to ensure the pas sensor is in the right place.

@skestans you can try rolling back to 1.1.0 for the motor to eliminate software. I've certainly used 1.1.0+1.1.0 with 860c and a temp sensor and it works fine. The changes to 1.1.1 are minimal and aren't related to the temp sensor or related logic but you never know.

 

[electroriderIT]

UPDATE! Tried the bike for around 20 km and seems to work...so strange but it's like the sensor had to settle... I will try it again and see if still gives me the problem of "no assist" at start but only when the bike is already moving.

The temp sensor works very good...I reached around 65° with a 3km climb.

NOW...Probably a configuration and settings issue to solve for this behavior :

[youtube]y4ScIMUBOTk[/YouTube]

Probably, now that I serviced the motor, cleaned the torque sensor and springs from all dirt and grease, I have to lower the sensibility...but cannot make it not doing like in the video.... the motor start way to easily even without weight on pedals..

CAN YOU HELP ME?

thank you!!!
ps: i 've never calibrated the torque sensor..maybe I should do it....seems complicated though!

OK..Thank you...I made a video of the state of the art right now. I reassembled everything very carefully, routed the 5 wires not in contact with the 3 phase wires.

The problem that you see in the video is that if I power up the unit, wait, start pedaling ....the motor doesn't engage BUT if after start pedaling , I stop for a moment pushing on the pedals and then push them again (without letting the bike stop), the motor starts!!! and then everything seems to work good, even the sensibility of the torque itself. it's like the torque doesn't engage well .... I noticed also that if I "kick" the pedals, then the torque "unlocks" and it works....
[youtube]9ImPFxDXXXk[/youtube]
In the video you see that I start and nothing happens, then you can hear the motor just after I stop and restart pedaling without letting the bike stop...then when I stop completely (00:50 second of the video) and start pedaling..nothing happens until I release the force and put back on the pedals.....soooo strange!!!

The torque sensor from my close inspection, looks good so I don't know if it could be malfunctioning anyway and if there is a way to test it before buy a new one.....but the data from the "technical" menu are good?.....

thank you Casainho for helping me out with this…it’s frustrating….I got to understand the problem and solve it ….

In the “technical” menu I have those values…don’t know if they are correct or too low, but the motor doesn’t ingage
78112D99-4E83-499D-90CA-A4D562C1346F.jpeg

Hope you meant those ….

What do you think?
I also read that the 5 pin wires that comes from the motor must not be too close to the 3 phase wires…I will try to change their position…now are attached

You can check on the display the torque sensor value as also the cadence sensor value. If both are working, then torque sensor should be fine.

Ok, cadence seems to be ok as also torque sensor, as long torque sensor ADC values increase when you press the pedals.

Maybe the issue is some wrong configuration??
Other way I can't understand why