Recumbent moped.

[Pilip]

Hello.
I am making such a moped for long trips. All components are available, but the matter has slowed down so far.
The battery will be large (there is in the garage, but not yet assembled).
It will consist of three cases with independent control electronics, each with 60Ah, 72V, that is, a total of 180Ah, 72V.
It is planned to run on a single charge 300+ km.

 

[Warren]

I will be watching this build.

 

[BalorNG]

You should have mentioned that it is not just about range, but about being able to tackle mountaineous terrain and maintaning not exactly 'moped' speeds, more like a light motorcycle.
On flats and at moped (~50 kmh/30 mph) speeds, you could have managed with a fraction of that capacity.

To be frank, starting from certain battery size/range, a series hybrid transmission starts getting highly tempting, if only there were compact and most importantly - silent generators that can be engaged and disengaged on demand...

 

[Pilip]

You should have mentioned that it is not just about range, but about being able to tackle mountaineous terrain and maintaning not exactly 'moped' speeds, more like a light motorcycle.
On flats and at moped (~50 kmh/30 mph) speeds, you could have managed with a fraction of that capacity.

To be frank, starting from certain battery size/range, a series hybrid transmission starts getting highly tempting, if only there were compact and most importantly - silent generators that can be engaged and disengaged on demand...

Hello, the speeds will really be moped, and this is 60-80 km / h.
The terrain is mountainous, but I will drive on public roads, and there the slopes are not too steep.
But as a warning, I still decided to give the motor for rewinding according to the scheme that is already on the current moped with the same characteristics, only an ordinary moped, not a recumbent one.
The motor is rewound with rectangular wire and has better performance than the factory one.

 

[BalorNG]

Hello, the speeds will really be moped, and this is 60-80 km / h.

That's not a moped. Mopeds are limited to ~50kmh internationally. You can tell anything you want to police, but you did choose the right board to post in - which is e-moto/e-scooter, latter of which your bike is

I'm being pedantic for a reason - with 50kmh max speed in mind your bike has massively oversized battery even stated long ranges.

I'm not entirely sure how effective your recumbent position aero-wise will be given that massive battery box, but technically you should have considerably less than 1 kw at 50 kmh, giving your 200+ km of range on one 'battery block'... and ~2.5kw at 80 km, which sounds about right.

Of course, more battery is not less, but more weight and bulk is not helpful at all - including when it comes to handling and loads on the frame...

 

[Pilip]

That's not a moped. Mopeds are limited to ~50kmh internationally. You can tell anything you want to police, but you did choose the right board to post in - which is e-moto/e-scooter, latter of which your bike is

I'm being pedantic for a reason - with 50kmh max speed in mind your bike has massively oversized battery even stated long ranges.

I'm not entirely sure how effective your recumbent position aero-wise will be given that massive battery box, but technically you should have considerably less than 1 kw at 50 kmh, giving your 200+ km of range on one 'battery block'... and ~2.5kw at 80 km, which sounds about right.

Of course, more battery is not less, but more weight and bulk is not helpful at all - including when it comes to handling and loads on the frame...

Hello, I have already established a relationship with the police, they don’t touch me and I don’t touch them either .

In all respects, the power of my moped (up to 4 kW) is exactly a moped, yes, the speed limit is 50 km / h, but I don’t drive right in front of a police post at a speed of 90 km / h, and posts are rare.
They stopped several times, but everything was managed by granting the right to drive a car, in the rules so far it provides the right to drive a moped, this is called category "M".

On an ordinary moped with a large battery (10kWh) and the same motor, the battery capacity consumption in my mountainous area is 42-45Wh/km.

If the consumption on a recumbent moped is 35 watt hours / km, then it will be very good for me.
10kWh batteries on a regular moped gives me the opportunity to travel 270 km, but on 13 kWh batteries + lying down, I hope it will easily provide 300-350 km without charging the battery.
These are my modest desires .

In this video, I'm riding my usual moped:

 

[BalorNG]

With heavy weight, mountaineous terrain and better aero you should aslo be able to use regen braking to great effect. You will not get *great* aero with position like this and a huge battery box increasing your frontal area by like 2x, but with adequate (controlable) regen you'll be able to greatly decrease 'wh spent climbing'...

 

[Pilip]

Hi,I want to make a battery box NOT in the form of one and a large,and split into three pieces,they will be 110mm thick each,in order for it to have an aerodynamic shape,I put plastic on the front,for this made protrusions in the box (material aluminum heat-treated).

 

[BalorNG]

Hi,I want to make a battery box NOT in the form of one and a large,and split into three pieces,they will be 110mm thick each, in order for it to have an aerodynamic shape,I put plastic on the front,for this made protrusions in the box (material aluminum heat-treated).

Now that looks much better!
Should drastically decrease your drag - 3x less frontal area, 3x less drag coefficient of battery box or whereabouts, so likely 10x less for the drag of battery box

 

[Pilip]

A guy from the next town has already rewound the second motor, which is designed for the lying moped.
The factory winding had a configuration of 4 coils, 30 cores and accordingly 11KV.
Now a very unusual winding is 36N32P(4 stars).
But it corresponds to three turns of the factory winding, i.e. its КV is higher.
Since I will have a sine controller Kelly on the recumbent moped, and it limits the maximum rpm by about 20%, I need to reach a speed of 80 km/h or more, and therefore the winding must meet these characteristics.

On the motor left to solder new Hall sensors, there are 6 pieces, three main and three spare.
At the same time checked the reliability of the insulation of the windings, at 2613V supply resistance 847Mohm, it's good, because such a thick wire is very difficult to wind without damaging the insulation.

 

[Pilip]

Hello.
I’m thinking of assembling the battery this winter and spring and starting a recumbent moped.
LG batteries have been sitting in the garage since 2020.
The housing for the batteries is made of heat-treated aluminum with a wall thickness of 3mm; I have so far made one that I am going to install under the seat and learn how to ride while lying down a little.
And only then will I attach the remaining two cases on the sides behind the butt.
The total thickness of the housings will be 110 mm, so they will not stick out much from the sides of the moped.

In the meantime, I’m having fun on a regular moped, its battery is also not small (10 kWh), the maximum distance I could travel on it without recharging was 240 km, but there was still about 50 kilometers of charge left.

 

[Pilip]

I bought and installed brakes on a recumbent moped.

The steering wheel, which was welded from an aluminum pipe with a wall thickness of 3mm, probably won’t suit me, so I also bought heat-treated aluminum pipes with a wall thickness of 5mm.
The guy who welded the steering wheel, also a motorcyclist, said that the steering wheel is a very important element and can play an important role if it falls, so I thought about it and decided to redo it a little later.

 

[Pilip]

More than two years ago I made a video:

 

[Pilip]

Наконец собрался и поставил корпус аккумулятора на место.
Как я писал выше, это будут корпуса LG 60Ah, 20S 1P.
Корпус из термообработанного алюминия толщиной 3мм, через пару дней начну подключать аккумуляторные блоки, соединение будет на заклепках, с предыдущим аккумулятором я это уже делал, опыт в этом есть.

Пачки аккумуляторов хранятся у меня в гараже с 2019 года, их очень много, из расчета полный аккумулятор 180Ач 72В.
Но пока установлю только третью часть, чтобы научиться кататься на этом чудесном диване лёжа.
Измерил внутреннее сопротивление ячеек, вроде в норме.

Я буду использовать BMS средней мощности в паре с активным балансиром и током балансировки 1А.

 

[Pilip]

I worked a little more with the battery, made holes in the contact plates, prepared special aluminum brackets to cover the contacts of the battery cells.
The cells were tightly wrapped in packaging film (8 layers), I did this earlier when collecting batteries from LG cells. The packaging film not only protects the bags from friction, but also has a static effect that literally glues the cells together, as shown in the photo. two cells that are held to each other at an almost vertical level.
I placed the battery assembled with rivets in an aluminum cabinet, everything is fine, there is still space on top for the plastic insulating plugs for the power wires.
The battery will be treated with 1mm fiberglass sheets. before I put it in the aluminum cabinet.

 

[Pilip]

Today I did a lot of fruitful work; anyone who assembled and installed the battery knows how difficult and responsible it is.
I need a couple more days to possibly start learning how to ride this beast.

 

[Pilip]

I still went out today on this beast.
I have a KLS 7240C controller, I configured it with 80% phase current (320A) and 50% battery current (160A), this is not small. I have the motor rewound to a different configuration with a thick and square wire, which was the factory winding, but in general it responds 3T.
When you open the accelerator handle, you feel a lot of power and the speed picks up quickly.
Purely subjective, the maximum speed is from 80-90 km/h, the speedometer has not yet been installed, and a lot is temporarily twisted on plastic ties, then I will do everything more civilly.
I drove the Recumbent for the first time, it doesn’t steer very well, even when you sit upright, it steers poorly, maybe because the center of gravity is shifted to the front wheel, oddly enough, when you lie down and push your legs forward, it’s easier to maintain balance. Today I traveled somewhere - then an hour and a half.
My city is mountainous and the roads are very winding and not at all designed for Recumbent, but I literally forced myself and drove through the most inconvenient areas in the city to learn how to drive.
Tomorrow I will continue, today I put the battery on charge, the battery is good, it has been in the garage since 2019 and there is practically no self-discharge; the internal resistance of all the cells that I put in the battery ranged from 0.91-0.96 mOhm.

 

[jkrienert]

I have a work in progress that also has an aluminum battery box similar to yours. I am challenged by mitigating or preventing moisture ingress. Do you have any advice on that? Drain holes with check valves? Completely sealed? Thanks and kudos on your build!

 

[Warren]

I drove the Recumbent for the first time, it doesn’t steer very well, even when you sit upright, it steers poorly, maybe because the center of gravity is shifted to the front wheel, oddly enough, when you lie down and push your legs forward, it’s easier to maintain balance. Today I traveled somewhere - then an hour and a half.

Is this the first recumbent you have ridden? If so, relax. Yes, putting your back into the seat will be more stable. And you will learn to use body weight shifting through your feet on the pegs, like you do on an upright, except your legs are now horizontal. One secret is to not grip the bars tightly. Try riding with just a thumb and finger on each grip. And remember, riding a bike is all about counter-steering. Try pushing or pulling gently on one grip or another. You will see you have full control of where the bike goes. It is just the opposite of steering a car.

 

[Pilip]

I have a work in progress that also has an aluminum battery box similar to yours. I am challenged by mitigating or preventing moisture ingress. Do you have any advice on that? Drain holes with check valves? Completely sealed? Thanks and kudos on your build!

In these photos you can see that at the bottom there are two holes for attaching the battery with two M6 spokes, in the aluminum box there are two holes for this in the bottom.
The second photo shows that the rivets and the corner fastening the box are coated with silicone. The box lid is still screwed on without a rubber gasket, I may do this in the future, although the lid fits very tightly to the surface of the box, it is very difficult for water to get there in the form of rain.

 

[Pilip]

Is this the first recumbent you have ridden? If so, relax. Yes, putting your back into the seat will be more stable. And you will learn to use body weight shifting through your feet on the pegs, like you do on an upright, except your legs are now horizontal. One secret is to not grip the bars tightly. Try riding with just a thumb and finger on each grip. And remember, riding a bike is all about counter-steering. Try pushing or pulling gently on one grip or another. You will see you have full control of where the bike goes. It is just the opposite of steering a car.

Thank you very much for the advice, of course I need to relax a little.
I have a feeling that the steering is too damped, that I respond to a turn left or right with a delay in order to maintain balance, of course I understand that the main weight of my body is on the front wheel, but I pumped it up a lot (4 bars) so to reduce the contact patch with the road surface.
Tomorrow I'm going to ride 80-90 km of distance, I'll make a report in the evening.

 

[Warren]

of course I understand that the main weight of my body is on the front wheel,

Have you put both ends on a scale with you sitting against the seatback? Put one wheel on a scale, and the other on an equal thickness wood block. Sit on the bike with your hand against a wall for balance, feet on the pegs. Have someone read the scale.

 

[Papa]

Pilip,

What does the battery + battery housing weigh? And how much do you weigh?

 

[Pilip]

Have you put both ends on a scale with you sitting against the seatback? Put one wheel on a scale, and the other on an equal thickness wood block. Sit on the bike with your hand against a wall for balance, feet on the pegs. Have someone read the scale.

Yes, of course, I'll do it just for fun.
But one thing is clear now - the load on the front wheel is large, the good quality tire (Michelin) has very good grip on the asphalt and under a decent weight the wheel is difficult to turn.
Yesterday I tried to change the direction of the tire, there are direction arrows in both directions and it’s not easy to figure out which direction is correct, but it didn’t work.
The only way out of the situation is to change the tire to another manufacturer and see what happens.
At high speed the situation improves a little; I even got the impression that if the steering wheel were wider, the steering would be more correct. And so... the feeling is that the wheel has a life of its own, purely speculatively it looks like the fork is very loose or the wheel axle is unscrewed , although in fact everything will stand very rigidly and powerfully, a fork from a pit bike, an axle 15 mm thick, a steering tube on thrust bearings.

 

[Pilip]

Pilip,

What does the battery + battery housing weigh? And how much do you weigh?

The mass of each cell (60Ah) is 900 + grams, together with the aluminum case, I think, no more than 23 kg.My own weight is 86kg.
The seating position is very comfortable, I rode on a recumbent for two days and yesterday evening I rode on my upright electric bike... it felt like I was riding an elephant.