hemo
100 W
Starting with first cell group at 0v makes sense rather the then last group with all that stored energy behind it.
3rd ebike battery. This time, doing it right
- Thread starter Philaphlous
- Start date
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
I would strongly suggest using only plastic levers. Something like this:
https://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-auto-trim-and-molding-tool-set-67021.html
https://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece-auto-trim-and-molding-tool-set-67021.html
docw009
1 MW
FYI, those $2 USB modules that run on 6 to 56V are pretty cool, but if you short the USB leads, they pop instantly. I fried two of them in 15 minutes installing them in my battery trying to run leads to the existing USB socket in my case.
Philaphlous
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Well that was quick! I got the entire battery taken apart. I desolderd all the wick wire connections on the positive and negative sides of the cells and I'm going through testing the rest of the cells individually. My 60w discharger is behaving interesting. Most of the "old" cells are showing higher than the brand new cells I ordered a few months ago. There's one cell that is obviously measured incorrectly because I got 10wh from 4.2 to 3.2v. That'd be like a mariacle cell. Lol. So I think all cells will be good in the new pack.
I'm honestly surprised I didn't have a battery fire... Testing some of these Chinese cells at 4amps only give me around 0.500-3wH. Some are just a tad over 0.500wH which is nothing considering the Panasonic cells are all over 6wH with my tests... I had a 8p battery but with some of these cells it basically was more like a 5p or 6p...
I'm hoping to finish testing of all the cells tonight and tomorrow then I'll continuing soldering the cells! I think I'll have enough solder since the reused cells are basically already tinned.
So now I've got about 60 Chinese cells at my desk that I really need to get rid of... especially the 2 cells that I accidentally shorted with the main power cable...one has a decent size hole in the bottom... No leaking currently but it did leak. The electrolyte has corroded and rusted the cells next to it...they don't look good... I need to find a safe way to dispose of them...
I'm honestly surprised I didn't have a battery fire... Testing some of these Chinese cells at 4amps only give me around 0.500-3wH. Some are just a tad over 0.500wH which is nothing considering the Panasonic cells are all over 6wH with my tests... I had a 8p battery but with some of these cells it basically was more like a 5p or 6p...
I'm hoping to finish testing of all the cells tonight and tomorrow then I'll continuing soldering the cells! I think I'll have enough solder since the reused cells are basically already tinned.
So now I've got about 60 Chinese cells at my desk that I really need to get rid of... especially the 2 cells that I accidentally shorted with the main power cable...one has a decent size hole in the bottom... No leaking currently but it did leak. The electrolyte has corroded and rusted the cells next to it...they don't look good... I need to find a safe way to dispose of them...
MJSfoto1956
10 kW
Philaphlous said:
That's what they invented dynamite for.
Philaphlous
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Aalllrriiiggghhhttt!
Got all the cell testing done! All cells are great! Theres some that definitely have a higher capacity when drawing down to 3.2v but that's why I've got a bms... Plus I've tried to balance the pack as best I can.
I've already started soldering up the rest of the cells!
All the cells are tinned already but I need just a little bit more solder to connect each wick wire.
I should hopefully have all the cells soldered up by tomorrow then I'll start connecting the bms sense wires. I oreded some 22awg silicone wire per some suggestions on the forum and the wire is awesome compared to the crap wire that comes with the bms. I also had to mod the bms and cut off about half of the heat plate to make it fit in the box. It'll fit great once it's glued to the battery. I also drilled out the solder points on the bms to fit the 10awg wires... I think I'll have to beef up the connections on it too but we'll see...
I don't think I'll get most of my other equipment before I need to use the battery so I'll rig something up to charge it in the meantime. I can already tell this battery is 100x safer than the previous one. Shoot just the cells alone are 50x safer than the crap Chinese cells I had...
Got all the cell testing done! All cells are great! Theres some that definitely have a higher capacity when drawing down to 3.2v but that's why I've got a bms... Plus I've tried to balance the pack as best I can.
I've already started soldering up the rest of the cells!
All the cells are tinned already but I need just a little bit more solder to connect each wick wire.
I should hopefully have all the cells soldered up by tomorrow then I'll start connecting the bms sense wires. I oreded some 22awg silicone wire per some suggestions on the forum and the wire is awesome compared to the crap wire that comes with the bms. I also had to mod the bms and cut off about half of the heat plate to make it fit in the box. It'll fit great once it's glued to the battery. I also drilled out the solder points on the bms to fit the 10awg wires... I think I'll have to beef up the connections on it too but we'll see...
I don't think I'll get most of my other equipment before I need to use the battery so I'll rig something up to charge it in the meantime. I can already tell this battery is 100x safer than the previous one. Shoot just the cells alone are 50x safer than the crap Chinese cells I had...
999zip999
100 TW
I put the old cells in water then add some salt.put out back first. It will boil to zero.
999zip999
100 TW
What size is this battery ? Whats it being use with ?
Philaphlous
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I've thought about the dropping in water. Does it basically short the battery till 0 while keeping it mildly cool???
I've got a modded 28mm stator 1000w hub kit I modded the controller for 2000w. I'll be trekking 13.6mi on my daily commute 1 way once I've got the battery built and the weather is nice!
I've got a modded 28mm stator 1000w hub kit I modded the controller for 2000w. I'll be trekking 13.6mi on my daily commute 1 way once I've got the battery built and the weather is nice!
999zip999
100 TW
It needs salt.
Philaphlous
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I'm upto 48V on the 10Awg outlet pigtail wires!!!
I still have a few more cross link connections to do between each cell but for the most part. All my soldering is done! And I still have leftover wick wire!!! I thought I'd run out!
I tried to reinforce and strengthen each of the outlet wires so it should be able to handle crazy amounts of current! I'm planning on bypassing the bms entirely on the outlet connection and just the charge port will be connected with the bms for balance. I also have a small switch I need to wire up with my volt meter and 2 usb charge ports that I'm planning on connecting to the battery. That'll be my weekend project! Im also getting a new charger delivered on Monday so I'm excited to test that out!
I still have a few more cross link connections to do between each cell but for the most part. All my soldering is done! And I still have leftover wick wire!!! I thought I'd run out!
I tried to reinforce and strengthen each of the outlet wires so it should be able to handle crazy amounts of current! I'm planning on bypassing the bms entirely on the outlet connection and just the charge port will be connected with the bms for balance. I also have a small switch I need to wire up with my volt meter and 2 usb charge ports that I'm planning on connecting to the battery. That'll be my weekend project! Im also getting a new charger delivered on Monday so I'm excited to test that out!
Philaphlous
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So I think for now I'm going to bypass the bms. Yes I get the lvc but I don't ride my bike that far so I won't have that issue. I have a lvc on my ebike controller... So kinda a big issue... Looking at pictures of my bms...it looks like I've been using a 16s bms for years... The 13s bms definitely doesn't have the same transistors on the board and it looks like my board is definitely meant for 16s. You can clearly see it goes to the 16s. The jst connector I have only has 14 pins so it'll match the 13S bms..however I received the wrong board...sucks and I'm going to have to order a new bms. The strange thing though is it works just fine and discharges the cells properly to balance....am I looking at it correctly?
Not sure how I could miss this...but it works properly????
On 2nd thought I think I'm OK. My previous battery would balance and I did the same thing by bypassing the bms for the discharge port. I'll use it for my charge port however to prevent overcharging.
Since there's gaps in each of the cells I'm going to snake the balance wires through the pack and drill a tiny hole through the corner of the cell holder to wire the bms leads together... I think that'll work! Then that way I won't have to worry about bms wires hanging out all over the place or having to hot glue them all over the place
Not sure how I could miss this...but it works properly????
On 2nd thought I think I'm OK. My previous battery would balance and I did the same thing by bypassing the bms for the discharge port. I'll use it for my charge port however to prevent overcharging.
Since there's gaps in each of the cells I'm going to snake the balance wires through the pack and drill a tiny hole through the corner of the cell holder to wire the bms leads together... I think that'll work! Then that way I won't have to worry about bms wires hanging out all over the place or having to hot glue them all over the place
Philaphlous
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Got all but 1 of the wires all strung up for the balance leads.
Ive got the 14 pin jst connector spliced so I need to join and heat shrink all the wires once they're connected to each positive cell.
I think I need to use a different soldering tip and create a little melted plastic canal for each balance wire to go from the drilled hole to the positive side of the battery, that way they aren't sticking up from the spacers. My plan is to use a super thin sheet of hdpe to glue that down to the spacers so I protect all the connections.
I still have a lot of work to do! Hopefully I can get most of it done over the weekend!
Epic timing! My new 48V charger just got delivered! I'm really hoping its a good charger!
Ive got the 14 pin jst connector spliced so I need to join and heat shrink all the wires once they're connected to each positive cell.
I think I need to use a different soldering tip and create a little melted plastic canal for each balance wire to go from the drilled hole to the positive side of the battery, that way they aren't sticking up from the spacers. My plan is to use a super thin sheet of hdpe to glue that down to the spacers so I protect all the connections.
I still have a lot of work to do! Hopefully I can get most of it done over the weekend!
Epic timing! My new 48V charger just got delivered! I'm really hoping its a good charger!
Philaphlous
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It's working!!!!
Although I think I just realized I need to cross link all my cell connections in order for the cell balancing to work correctly...so that'll take a few days to button up... I also need to solder up the xt90. Rather than having it flush mounted to the battery I'll just have the 10awg pigtails coming out of the battery pack to the connector so it'll be flexible...
I also got my new liion 54.6v 48v charger! I'll get my wemo on it but it's supposed to be around 2amps. It creates a coil whine when not plugged in the battery but once I plug it into the battery that stops. The volt meter when unplugged says 55V so I'm really hoping it'll cutoff at 54.6 or at least the bms will cut it off. There's no pentimeter on it which stinks but that's what you get for $15. Im thinking of added some additional heatsinks to the charger and a new housing for it along with the volt and amp meter attached to the charger. It should be pretty awesome!
I didn't want to wait for the 5.5mm charger plug and I realized the ones I bought were 5.5x2.5 instead of 2.1...fail. The charge port is a 6 pin connector and so I've wired the plus and negative to be 3 and 3 to hold a decent current.
Overall the battery is great! I realized I might not be able to attach a volt meter to the battery since the voltage required to power it is under 30V and the switch I have won't fit in the battery box... I could order a step down converter and I might do that instead... I might just have it on the charger and that'll be my volt meter but I really want to have one for the battery. I'll figure it out. I still have some soldering to do...once I get that done I need to finish the phase wires on my bike then I can test out the new battery! This thing takes forever to charge!
Although I think I just realized I need to cross link all my cell connections in order for the cell balancing to work correctly...so that'll take a few days to button up... I also need to solder up the xt90. Rather than having it flush mounted to the battery I'll just have the 10awg pigtails coming out of the battery pack to the connector so it'll be flexible...
I also got my new liion 54.6v 48v charger! I'll get my wemo on it but it's supposed to be around 2amps. It creates a coil whine when not plugged in the battery but once I plug it into the battery that stops. The volt meter when unplugged says 55V so I'm really hoping it'll cutoff at 54.6 or at least the bms will cut it off. There's no pentimeter on it which stinks but that's what you get for $15. Im thinking of added some additional heatsinks to the charger and a new housing for it along with the volt and amp meter attached to the charger. It should be pretty awesome!
I didn't want to wait for the 5.5mm charger plug and I realized the ones I bought were 5.5x2.5 instead of 2.1...fail. The charge port is a 6 pin connector and so I've wired the plus and negative to be 3 and 3 to hold a decent current.
Overall the battery is great! I realized I might not be able to attach a volt meter to the battery since the voltage required to power it is under 30V and the switch I have won't fit in the battery box... I could order a step down converter and I might do that instead... I might just have it on the charger and that'll be my volt meter but I really want to have one for the battery. I'll figure it out. I still have some soldering to do...once I get that done I need to finish the phase wires on my bike then I can test out the new battery! This thing takes forever to charge!
Philaphlous
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Got the usb charger wired up along with the volt meter!! All is working! The volt meter is within 0.01V of my multimeter voltage reading so it's quite accurate!
I tried to charge an iPad for a few minutes and it said it was plugged in but it wasn't charging so I'm not sure what's going on... Ive checked the voltages on the usb and I know its getting supplied the 5.1V or whatever it needs to power it... I need a little usb charger meter thing to test the current...ive got a 2nd one just in case this one is bad. I'll probably stick to just having 1 usb charger instead of two...
I finished all the soldered connections to the pack and really the only thing I need to do is solder up the xt90, mount the usb charger and volt meter along with drilling a hole for them both, and mounting the other side panel...
I'm also planning on welding shut at least 1 of the sides to the thicker hdpe. I'll wrap it in a vinyl wrap once it's all done which I haven't decided what wrap I want to do...im thinking brushed aluminum or carbon fiber vinyl but I don't want it to look dorky....
I tried to charge an iPad for a few minutes and it said it was plugged in but it wasn't charging so I'm not sure what's going on... Ive checked the voltages on the usb and I know its getting supplied the 5.1V or whatever it needs to power it... I need a little usb charger meter thing to test the current...ive got a 2nd one just in case this one is bad. I'll probably stick to just having 1 usb charger instead of two...
I finished all the soldered connections to the pack and really the only thing I need to do is solder up the xt90, mount the usb charger and volt meter along with drilling a hole for them both, and mounting the other side panel...
I'm also planning on welding shut at least 1 of the sides to the thicker hdpe. I'll wrap it in a vinyl wrap once it's all done which I haven't decided what wrap I want to do...im thinking brushed aluminum or carbon fiber vinyl but I don't want it to look dorky....
Chalo
100 TW
iPads charge at 2.1A if I remember correctly, but your USB port might only support the default 500mA.
Philaphlous
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Chalo said:
Gosh I hope not...the crap Chinese description said 15W which I know isn't true..I was hoping at least 1.5A or 1A charge rate... I wonder if if has anything to do with the volt meter power connections soldered to the usb 5V pins but I doubt it...
Philaphlous
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Allright!!!
Im pretty sure the usb charger is at least 1.5A. It charged the iPad pretty quick and I'm sure there's some thermal throttling if it is even smart enough to do that. I burned my fingers when I touched it to get an idea of possibly how much current is going through it. I used my infrared thermal gun and I got a staggering 266F on the mosfet!!!! Crazy for just 5v and 1.5A or 2A.... So thankfully I've got a few leftover heatsinks from my gtx560 days and so I used gorilla super glue gel which says it'll operate upto 240F which with the heatsink I'm hoping it'll be way less. I also have a thermal pad which can go on the bottom side of the pcb to help transfer the heat to the hdpe sheet which will be better than nothing. Even though it gets really hot I'm not concerned about having it next to the cells since I'm sure it doesn't generate much heat that would be calculated in btu's.
The next addition is the ammeter arrived lastnight! I wasn't sure when it was going to arrive! So I quickly wired it up to the charger without any heatshrink which I'll just use liquid electrical tape and walla! Works great! And to my not surprise, the charger is only 1.5A which means I'll probably have to charge the battery overnight on a timer during my commutes... So another modification I'll be doing to the charger is adding a top to it since I removed the plastic. I'll use the perferated metal mesh that you see in trash cans just bent to make a rectangle. That'll be used to mount the ammeter and also a small 50mm fan that I plan on utilizing with a step down converter to power the ammeter and fan through the charger port. After charging for about 2 hours the hottest component in the charger without the case gets upto about 155F which I'm hoping with the fan and mesh top, will be way cooler to make the charger last a long time.
Both the ammeter and volt meter measures the same voltage which matches my multimeter which is great!
The 6 pin charge port is working perfectly along with the connector for the charger also. I'm glad I went with it to ensure a water tight charge port once I start using the battery.
Im pretty sure the usb charger is at least 1.5A. It charged the iPad pretty quick and I'm sure there's some thermal throttling if it is even smart enough to do that. I burned my fingers when I touched it to get an idea of possibly how much current is going through it. I used my infrared thermal gun and I got a staggering 266F on the mosfet!!!! Crazy for just 5v and 1.5A or 2A.... So thankfully I've got a few leftover heatsinks from my gtx560 days and so I used gorilla super glue gel which says it'll operate upto 240F which with the heatsink I'm hoping it'll be way less. I also have a thermal pad which can go on the bottom side of the pcb to help transfer the heat to the hdpe sheet which will be better than nothing. Even though it gets really hot I'm not concerned about having it next to the cells since I'm sure it doesn't generate much heat that would be calculated in btu's.
The next addition is the ammeter arrived lastnight! I wasn't sure when it was going to arrive! So I quickly wired it up to the charger without any heatshrink which I'll just use liquid electrical tape and walla! Works great! And to my not surprise, the charger is only 1.5A which means I'll probably have to charge the battery overnight on a timer during my commutes... So another modification I'll be doing to the charger is adding a top to it since I removed the plastic. I'll use the perferated metal mesh that you see in trash cans just bent to make a rectangle. That'll be used to mount the ammeter and also a small 50mm fan that I plan on utilizing with a step down converter to power the ammeter and fan through the charger port. After charging for about 2 hours the hottest component in the charger without the case gets upto about 155F which I'm hoping with the fan and mesh top, will be way cooler to make the charger last a long time.
Both the ammeter and volt meter measures the same voltage which matches my multimeter which is great!
The 6 pin charge port is working perfectly along with the connector for the charger also. I'm glad I went with it to ensure a water tight charge port once I start using the battery.
999zip999
100 TW
Is the battery balance before you hookup the bms ?
Philaphlous
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Well some bad news this am...
It could be worse, I didn't burn the house down but I did manage to destroy at least the volt meter and usb adapter...I think.. I broke off the heatsink and the capacitor fell off... Then I burned my hand on the volt meter after I discovered it wasn't working anymore...
Also...I need a new battery bag as this one is significantly bigger than my previous battery and it doesn't really fit
It could be worse, I didn't burn the house down but I did manage to destroy at least the volt meter and usb adapter...I think.. I broke off the heatsink and the capacitor fell off... Then I burned my hand on the volt meter after I discovered it wasn't working anymore...
Also...I need a new battery bag as this one is significantly bigger than my previous battery and it doesn't really fit
Philaphlous
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Well I hope I can salvage my not working broken off capacitor on the usb charger because I'm now planning on reusing it for powering my meter and fan for my charger... I'll work on soldering it tonight and see if I can get it working again. I still have another usb charger so well see if I want to end up attempting to have a charger on my battery... I feel like I could just solder some leads to a male xt90 and just utilize the standard battery output for a charger... I'd just have to encase it and properly heatsink it...
So I did the commute! 13.5mi and the battery held up really well! After that commute with no pedaling and about 22mph average I'm sitting at 49V which should be enough to get me home! Overall pretty excited for the battery and I'm now searching for a new frame bag...
I need to finish the box for the battery along with charging it back up for tomorrow! This thing is going to get some good use!
So I did the commute! 13.5mi and the battery held up really well! After that commute with no pedaling and about 22mph average I'm sitting at 49V which should be enough to get me home! Overall pretty excited for the battery and I'm now searching for a new frame bag...
I need to finish the box for the battery along with charging it back up for tomorrow! This thing is going to get some good use!
Philaphlous
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Well some good and not the greatest news...
1. Battery works great!! I did a full 28 miles at full speed and I still was resting at 47.8V after I finished my ride. When I go from a full charge and about 13.5miles I only drain the battery down to about 49.4V which leads me to believe I use right around half or a little less capacity for the speed.
2. I'm a bit disappointed by the speed...Maybe I'm used to it but after I get through the stop and go in the city I'm left with about 29-30mph top speed...Maybe it's from the tires needing pumped up or the cold heavy air causing more air resistance but it feels kinda slow. Maybe I just need to accept the fact that unless I go up to maybe 15-16S I won't get much over 25mph.... I could potentially add more cells if the price of the cells on eBay goes way down...so far they haven't but I'd have to build a bigger box too...if I had to do it again I think id keep the hdpe sides but for the main shape of the box I'd go with a steel frame that's enameled and bent to the correct shape...then use screws or bolts to secure the shape...which would make it very ridged but also very thin...
I think it's also difficult because my bike route is about 7 miles of relatively flat and straight trails..which I would definitely benefit from a higher volt battery.. Thing is though I'd have to get a new charger and see if my controller could handle the higher volts. I really need to get a power meter and rig it up and see how much sag is happening as im riding... Battery inside the box..inside the bag barely gets warm along with everything else staying nice and cool also. Surprisingly enough the motor gets slightly warm after my commute but the controller stays dead cold... I figured pumping about 1800w in short bursts through the controller would make it warm but it doesn't...I'll take it.
For now I'm gonna back down to my normal 2.5mi commute. Till maybe summer when I'll consider it again. With traffic/lights/pedestrians it really takes longer than I thought...so even if I go as fast as possible I still average around 19-20mph. Like I said earlier...I'd have to go up in volts to make it possible to reduce my commute times...
1. Battery works great!! I did a full 28 miles at full speed and I still was resting at 47.8V after I finished my ride. When I go from a full charge and about 13.5miles I only drain the battery down to about 49.4V which leads me to believe I use right around half or a little less capacity for the speed.
2. I'm a bit disappointed by the speed...Maybe I'm used to it but after I get through the stop and go in the city I'm left with about 29-30mph top speed...Maybe it's from the tires needing pumped up or the cold heavy air causing more air resistance but it feels kinda slow. Maybe I just need to accept the fact that unless I go up to maybe 15-16S I won't get much over 25mph.... I could potentially add more cells if the price of the cells on eBay goes way down...so far they haven't but I'd have to build a bigger box too...if I had to do it again I think id keep the hdpe sides but for the main shape of the box I'd go with a steel frame that's enameled and bent to the correct shape...then use screws or bolts to secure the shape...which would make it very ridged but also very thin...
I think it's also difficult because my bike route is about 7 miles of relatively flat and straight trails..which I would definitely benefit from a higher volt battery.. Thing is though I'd have to get a new charger and see if my controller could handle the higher volts. I really need to get a power meter and rig it up and see how much sag is happening as im riding... Battery inside the box..inside the bag barely gets warm along with everything else staying nice and cool also. Surprisingly enough the motor gets slightly warm after my commute but the controller stays dead cold... I figured pumping about 1800w in short bursts through the controller would make it warm but it doesn't...I'll take it.
For now I'm gonna back down to my normal 2.5mi commute. Till maybe summer when I'll consider it again. With traffic/lights/pedestrians it really takes longer than I thought...so even if I go as fast as possible I still average around 19-20mph. Like I said earlier...I'd have to go up in volts to make it possible to reduce my commute times...
pwd
10 kW
Congrats on getting the pack into action! Maybe I missed it but what kind of bike and motor/controller are you running?
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