50 amp BBS-HD at Luna

Warren said:
I could be tempted if this was a cargo bike or touring bike. Sorry. I just don't get fatbikes. Maybe if I lived in the desert.
Click to expand...
Ditto
 
After riding a fat bike for almost a year now my experience with a fat tire bike has been real positive. I think a fat tire bike that is not electric and is a cheapy is a waste of money. Either go super light with no electric (but big money) or go with fat tire and electric. The beauty of fat tire is tubeless and run at super low tire pressures and also a pedal assist elctric. This combo with an electric motor has to be experienced to appreciate. I have only one bike now and its my fat tire electric. All my gas bikes and cross country and downhill are gone. Sand, snow, dirt, street it's a do all machine for me ever since I got the front suspension installed. For the fast crowd this a joke I am sure, but I am very happy at 20mph and under, and at these speeds with tubless and electric drive - the fatty is for me.
 
I'm really interested in what Luna's cooking up.

Regarding the BBSHD, I think the key to more power is more voltage, not more current. I wonder how long it will last at 50A though. This guy has me really interested in the BBSHD now.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83450

robertpaulson said:
eric also mentions that luna are about to release their own drive! any details?
Click to expand...
 
I contacted Eric at Luna cycles and asked specifically whether they were going to sell this controller seperately.

The answer was crystal clear - No way - so you can just forget about this - sorry to say.

I emphasized that a lot of BBS-HD owners would buy it immediately and even suggested that they would sell it in a sort of package where the internal wear parts could be included. Coming from the MX world - it would be fully understandable for me if the power increase would require slightly more maintenance - jut as MX bikes and I would imagine that there would be a market for BBS-HD wear parts aside of the controller itself. I explained this to Eric - but it made no difference. They are not gonna be selling this controller separately - end of story.

Very sad as this seems like the perfect upgrade for the BBS-HD - which would make it perfect with regards to power and the slim look of the drive unit is not compromised.

If Luna were to sell these controllers I would not hesitate to buy - as I´m certain that its a bullitproof product which have been tested thoroughly.

But its not gonna happen... They will only sell it included on a complete bike.
 
I think the way to move forward is to develop our own controller.

I cannot be that hard...

I can make a 3D model of a casing semilar to the original controller cover on the BBS-HD, with the exact same mating face against the motor. After that we send the STEP (3D) file to a number of controller manufactures and ask them to investigate whether they can deliver the desired controller small enough to fit into the cover / casing.

Once they come up with a suggestion for a small kit / controller internals and a price, we can purchase this kit.

The cover / casing can be manufactured by any small CNC company - they just need the STEP (3D) file an a material specification - which could be aluminium. The STEP file can easily be shared in this community as these files does not take that much space. That enables people to go down to their local CNC workshop to get it manufactored. The surface can be anodized or powder coated.

Once we have the cover / casing controller internals in hand it can be "casted" into the casing with Silocone or another more suitable material making it waterproof.

I´ll start by contacting some suppliers of controllers to make an initiate investigation of the possibilities.

Michael Back.
 
You can also modify your controller yourself. This seems easy enough doesn't it? =)

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83778
 
I thought Luna was outsourcing the controller mods to another guy from a moto background?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I don't see why it would offer any huge advantage to have a new case for the controller. Of course, it can help a bit, but you're bolting it onto the side of a motor, that is operating well above it's rated power and that motor will get hot if used hard.

12 good mosfets can reliably make 40A or a little more. The standard fets in the HD, are nothing special. Swap them out for fets with about half the resistance, add an extra shunt, and I'm guessing plus 50% should be fairly reliable, so long as it isn't pushed really hard, for a long time, with a big battery pack

The mod isn't that difficult to do, but getting it right, first time, without wrecking it, isn't so easy.
 
looking forward to this!

https://en-gb.facebook.com/lunacycle/photos/pcb.1649237288700333/1649237268700335/?type=3

hopefully bafang quiet and with a torque sensor option!
 
With an unenclosed second chain, I doubt it will be as quiet as a Bafang of any sort. It looks more like a Cyclone with a properly engineered mount that's been painted red!

Now that Luna has shown that it is possible to make an aftermarket integrated controller for the BBSHD, we can expect the marketplace to fill the pent-up demand. In other words, if Luna won't sell hopped up drives or controllers direct to the public and instead sells them only as part of a complete bike, then someone else will. If Luna sourced them in the US, expect China to reverse-engineer them and if they got them in China, expect a flood of knock-offs in a few months. Given how small a window of exclusivity there is these days, it won't be that long before Luna will have to sell them as drive kits and replacement parts as well. Even if only to keep market share.......
 
Good things come to those who wait .... we have had a 50 amp controller for 6 months and still did not release it.... its complex on how you sale something like that to public...but i can say the bbshd at 50 amps is very reliable.

We are going to race an Audi r8 this weekend against our 300 pound test rider on 50 amp BBSHD.....

Live video feed ;)
 
Anyone have a spare wrecked BBS-HD controller ?

I am in contact with a German specialist that will assist with making a new controller that can handle 50 Amp - semilar to what Luna has done. Need to send him the original controller in order for him to get an impression of how much space is available.

I´d of course be willing to pay for the shipping coats for sending the controller to me.

Once this specialist has the wrecked controller, he will be able to proceed and make a new custom circuit board that can be retro-fitted in the original controller housing. This will limit the costs of upgrading the original BBS-HD controller to the custom version.

Please give me a private message if you have a wrecked controller that you are willing to donate for this project.

Thanks - Michael.
 
You don't need to make a new controller PCB, and I can assure you, nobody else has made any custom PCB for the BBSHD controller. Dream on if you think a new controller case is going to make heaps of difference to the reliability of the controller.

Just fit upgraded mosfets and add an extra shunt, as I detailed above. The standard BBSHD controllers has 12 low end fets and runs 30A. If you fit mosfets with about half the resistance (or less), you should be fine to increase the current level by about 50% over standard.
 
If the stock BBSHD controller had thermal roll back, I would be all-in for ramming a lot of amps into it to see where the sprockets and chains break. 50% over the stock 30A would be 45A, and...as long as the rider keeps the bike in the proper gear (plus swaps-in a smaller tooth-count of chainring), I can endorse this plan.

Higher volts usually require a more expensive battery, and possibly a physically larger battery, which can be hard to fit (in a full suspension frame). If we swap-in better FETs (so the controller runs cooler), and 45A is its real limit (under most conditions), then I'd say run it at 40A as a safety margin. If chains and sprockets wear out fast (and sometimes even break) at power levels over 2000W, then divide 2000W by 40A and we end up with 50V. 14S battery packs from em3ev and Luna are readily available at affordable prices, and in a variety of sizes and shapes. 60V or 72V? you're gonna need a small selection of frames that will fit that, and a very limited selection of battery packs.

If you are experienced and you already know what you want, ignore everything I'm writing. If you're new and you want to know what is a safe and "long lasting" configuration, get the upgraded controller and use it at 52V / 40A for a fairly trouble-free system.

External controller?

2000W at 60V is 34A.

At 72V? 2000W is 28A
 
Dear Gents - thank you very much for the input - much appreciated.

The reason I´m even getting into this - is that I mainly use my mountain bike for singletrack - with a throttle only cabling solution. A small power increase would make this setup perfect. I have my battery in my backpack so frame space is ot an issue for me.

I understand the idea about upgrading the original controller with better mosfets - but I consider it too much work, stripping the controller. As indicated in this thread - it requires skills and effort that I´m afraid that I dont have.

What got me started, is the fact that Luna managed to increase the power output from the BBS-HD with an external controller - without wrecking the sprockets, chain and the internal parts of the Bafang. I could use a little extra boost and I´m fully aware that higher power requires higher maintenance of the drive unit itself and the bicycle wear parts. I am used to that from the MX world. Luna managed to fit an upgraded controller in a small casing / housing very semilar to the original controller. I like this idea as I would like to keep the clean look of my bike - without any extra box / cabling on the frame.

If Luna would just offer this integraded controller that allows 50 Amp on the BBS-HD for sale - I would of course just go for that. But for some strange reason they have decided that they will only offer this solution on their complete bikes. And this is what got me started.

When Luna can - everyone else can do this.

I am in contact with a German specialist that works with this type of controllers and the question now is whether to fit a new and upgraded version of the controller in the existing BBSHD casing - or to make a new casing as Luna has done - to obtain better cooling capabilities.

That´s why I asked if anyone have a wrecked controller - to proceed with this project and investigate whether a new cntroller can be fitted into the existing housing.

So please gents - if you have a wrecked controller - it would be apreciated if you could donate it to this project. The outcome would be a retro fit solution where the new controller could be purchased from our German specialist - to fit in the existing housing.

Thanks in advance.

All the best.

Michael Back.
 
Luna still sell controllers for $99.00 on their website. So, why not just buy one.....? If $100 is too much money for such an essential component, it does not bode well for any plans you may have.
 
@Michael Back
If one could squeeze a Grin Phaserunner in there, one would have all the possibilities in the world...
I guess all the components would fit with a new pcb.
Suddenly you would have a sinewave controller running up tp 90v@50A, with CA3 dashboard :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
 
:?: Did anybody actually ever bought the Luna 50A-BBSHD Ludacriss EBike for the veeery low price of 3500 USD :?:

I haven't heard a single feedback on the Ludacriss e-Bike ever since Luna started selling it (the whole bike :roll: ), aside from Karl Gesslin who might be biased in his evaluation (was he given the BBSHD controller free as a courtesy for beta testing ???)... https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/09/22/lunacycle-releases-their-50amp-bbshd-that-ive-been-testing-for-6-months-but-you-gotta-buy-the-whole-bike/

There is no Youtube video on showing the real performance of the BBSHD 50A Ludacriss controller...

I would like to hear feedbacks from you folks out there who have had the chance to try it. It seems no one has spoken out loud yet...
How many peanut buttered gear ? How many burnt motor coil ? How many blown controller/fets ? Is it holding up, or should I just believe just this one and only article on the subject ?

There's also EbikesForReal who did the shunt mod ( https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83778 ),running it at 45A. Is it still holding up ? Burn motor ? Peanut buttered gear yet ? Blown controller ?

I'd like to enter the 40-60A BBHSD Controller world... And I would like to hear other people's feedback. Better to calibrate at 40, 45- 50, 60 Amps ?
 
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