6" pneumatic tyre and MBS mounts -ALIEN...

[beetbocks]

once have proven the drive train- i think this little fat boy will be the deck- 34" long..11" wide- concave and nose and tail...

 

[LEVer]

I can't argue with how it feels to you, but I don't understand how requesting more amps would make the motor spin faster? I agree that when you put more load on 1 wheel, that motor will need more amps, but it's voltage that defines speed, not amps (edit: at least not in that way).

For my understanding, do you mean putting pressure on the outer wheel when turning? Turning radius would be shorter if the outer wheels spin faster, but that seems like an unnatural thing to do when turning. Is this what people do when surfing?

Ok, then maybe not speed but torque. Either way, there will be a difference between the two wheels on the same axle. Gnarboards and Bajaboards talk about it.

If you have the dual REAR drive, you put pressure/weight on the inner REAR wheel. This puts load on that wheel's motor and thus ask for more amps from the ESC and battery. Consequently, with the outer REAR wheel, less load is detected and amps is reduced. Thus, you have what they call "electronic-differential." You combine this with the turning REAR trucks, then you will really turn...even slide if you have narrow trucks.

http://gnarboards.com/FAQ.html

Here's him talking about electronic-differential phenomenon:

http://visforvoltage.org/forum/10352-4wd-electric-skateboard-questions

You have to remember I'm talking about dual-drive REAR trucks, where the inner wheel needs to be faster than the outer wheel. On dual-drive FRONT trucks, it will not work with parallel wiring because, of course, in front trucks the outer wheel needs to be faster than the inner wheel, much like in cars.

In surfing, you put have to have more weight in the back because:

1. You need to have the nose above the wave.
2. The fin is under your back foot, which combined together acts like a rudder, allowing you to maneuver the board easily.
3. It lets you not get ahead of the wave too much and bottom out.

 

[beetbocks]

well...its together and it runs pretty smooth ( i had an excited first run in the dark last night)..the 50mm motor seem more than powerful enough...i can ride up any kerb..im just getting used the to the wide turning circle..you really have put the effort in to turn..its super stable though at speed.. I really like the top mounted motors ( and there super stable and solid,braking is really good)..they look pretty cool!! It looks less wide now with the motors fitted..
Ill give it proper test run this weekend,weather permitting..and look for improvements..
Maybe 4x 42mm will be nice!!! lol..
Video to follow,naturally

 

[Murfix]

You have to remember I'm talking about dual-drive REAR trucks, where the inner wheel needs to be faster than the outer wheel. On dual-drive FRONT trucks, it will not work with parallel wiring because, of course, in front trucks the outer wheel needs to be faster than the inner wheel, much like in cars.

I agree on how the electronic differential works, but IMO the outer wheel always spins faster than the inner wheel, front or rear. That is also why I think that the electronic differential works just as well on a front drive assembly.

 

[LEVer]

I agree on how the electronic differential works, but IMO the outer wheel always spins faster than the inner wheel, front or rear.

No, only the front truck. Rear truck moves the opposite direction.

That is also why I think that the electronic differential works just as well on a front drive assembly.

Not in parallel connection.

 

[michaeliam]

Fantastic looking board!

I also have an MBS board with ATS trucks. May I ask where you purchased your motor mounts from?

I trawled the Alien site and they do not seem to have MBS specific motor mounts. Or did you machine them yourself?

 

[beetbocks]

They are custom mounts that I've designed and machined myself. . You do need to use the thinner wheel though ( which I also machined ) as they fit on the truck axles .

 

[LEVer]

I personally think the pneumatic tyre is the best ride of all my boards on a day to day basis ..just so super smooth..and i really want to make it available to everyone..but the costs of the wheels are so prohibitive..

Aside from comfort, there is one very important aspect of rubber tires...and that is TRACTION. With traction you lessen the cogging on startup and it provides better grip during braking and going through light puddles. The only negative I've found is the decrease travel range, but it can be somewhat mitigated by increasing the air pressure and smoother threads. I know you can use softer durometer poly wheels, but they can be susceptible to chunking and coning. Also, someone from Abec11 distributor told me the the 107mm flywheels weight 5 lbs. each. ....not sure if that is true.

 

[beetbocks]

I agree completely with everything you say...I don't quite understand why is the range less when the wheels are thinner and offer less rolling resistance.. Weird but true.
I did vastly improve the range on my 4" wheels by getting the wheels to run true ( using a balance weight) and by increasing pressure as you say and by caring for the bearings..etc .

 

[LEVer]

I agree completely with everything you say...I don't quite understand why is the range less when the wheels are thinner and offer less rolling resistance.. Weird but true.
I did vastly improve the range on my 4" wheels by getting the wheels to run true ( using a balance weight) and by increasing pressure as you say and by caring for the bearings..etc .

Good tips. You could also just as easily bring extra battery packs to increase range.

 

[Murfix]

I agree completely with everything you say...I don't quite understand why is the range less when the wheels are thinner and offer less rolling resistance.. Weird but true.
I did vastly improve the range on my 4" wheels by getting the wheels to run true ( using a balance weight) and by increasing pressure as you say and by caring for the bearings..etc .

Interesting. Did you have to use a balance weight to compensate for the inflation tube? If so, you did you mount it directly opposite from it and did this make the wheel turn true?

 

[drmacgyver]

I agree completely with everything you say...I don't quite understand why is the range less when the wheels are thinner and offer less rolling resistance.. Weird but true.
I did vastly improve the range on my 4" wheels by getting the wheels to run true ( using a balance weight) and by increasing pressure as you say and by caring for the bearings..etc .

Do they have more traction because they the rubber has more grip, or because the inflatable squishes under the weight of a person? If they're softer than a high durometer skate wheel, maybe the rolling resistance is higher regardless of a skate wheel having larger surface area? I'm not sure how quickly they deflate, but that's something to factor in too.
Did your 1st gen urban commuter with the skate trucks have the same range as this one? Maybe the wider mbs trucks are transferring the weight differently because the wheels are further out? Possibly the weight is more on the inside of the wheels as opposed to being more overhead.
I'm totally uneducated on the physics behind it, so my theorizing may have a few holes.

 

[beetbocks]

I agree completely with everything you say...I don't quite understand why is the range less when the wheels are thinner and offer less rolling resistance.. Weird but true.
I did vastly improve the range on my 4" wheels by getting the wheels to run true ( using a balance weight) and by increasing pressure as you say and by caring for the bearings..etc .

Interesting. Did you have to use a balance weight to compensate for the inflation tube? If so, you did you mount it directly opposite from it and did this make the wheel turn true?

Yep that's right the valve makes quite a different.without the weights ( sticky back car tyre weights) the wheel really wobble over 1/2rpm. .. With weights there's no speed wobble .

 

[beetbocks]

I agree completely with everything you say...I don't quite understand why is the range less when the wheels are thinner and offer less rolling resistance.. Weird but true.
I did vastly improve the range on my 4" wheels by getting the wheels to run true ( using a balance weight) and by increasing pressure as you say and by caring for the bearings..etc .

Do they have more traction because they the rubber has more grip, or because the inflatable squishes under the weight of a person? If they're softer than a high durometer skate wheel, maybe the rolling resistance is higher regardless of a skate wheel having larger surface area? I'm not sure how quickly they deflate, but that's something to factor in too.
Did your 1st gen urban commuter with the skate trucks have the same range as this one? Maybe the wider mbs trucks are transferring the weight differently because the wheels are further out? Possibly the weight is more on the inside of the wheels as opposed to being more overhead.
I'm totally uneducated on the physics behind it, so my theorizing may have a few holes.

The smaller urban deck is a thinner track width and higher angle truck , so it turned quicker but this is more stable .. It's simply the wider track creates a larger Turning radius ..

 

[beetbocks]

i have redesigned the alloy 3 piece wheels to be more simple and i can get them for about £25 each - they will fit standard skate bearings and fit a standard skate truck..

Skike now sell the 5" tyre pretty cheap. http://www.skike.com/shop.php?l=en&c=UK&page=5&cat=1&sub=0&go=5.
I have some on order so ill let you all know the quality of them.. I do find the 5" to be better all round tyre than the 6"..
Do you think these numbers add up? would you pay that for the alloys?
I must add ,out of all my build the 5" tyre commuter is by far the most versatile of them all.. the ride is just super sweet and smooth..

 

[drmacgyver]

Is 25 pounds just for 1 wheel hub or for 1 complete wheel?

 

[beetbocks]

For a complete wheel which consists 1 wheel rim half , 1 wheel rim with drive and a wheel hub centre .

 

[Andres]

Is 25 pounds just for 1 wheel hub or for 1 complete wheel?

For a complete wheel which consists 1 wheel rim half , 1 wheel rim with drive and a wheel hub centre .

My first answer to this forum.

I am reading about the 5" pneumatic tyres with great interest. In my opinion, thanks to them an electric skate board can become a realistic urban transportation. The 8" tyres+MBS trucks transform an E-board into a non-transportable electric monster. In addition, the streets are not like a california beach promenade, so the typical skate wheels are non practical. The 5" tyres (and maybe the 6" also) are the perfect solution in-between.

Beetbocks has understood this, and is trying to make this solution affordable and accesible. I think 25 bucks is a fair price for the rims+tyre combo.

Cheers

 

[Murfix]

I think 25 bucks is a fair price for the rims+tyre combo.Cheers

Except that it's 25£, about 42$. Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[beetbocks]

Yep that's right .. I meant to correct that myself .. You just cannot get precision machining done for peanuts .. That's the problem .
I have done the hard work of designing the parts ..
Whilst all these parts are fine for myself ( as my time is free) to produce in any numbers I have to pay the going rate and buy in min batches of 50 to make it worth them setting the machine up .. And I just don't believe I would sell them. ..so I would be stuck with wheels I don't want or need .. U see the problem. .
I could get some plastic rims mass produced in China but that still requires a big investment in molds/ tooling ..and they would be plastic not alloy .. So either way it's a risk I'm not prepared to take .. alien is just a hobby and doesn't pay the mortgage I'm afraid my full time job does ..

 

[Jan Christian]

Hey beetbocks! Today I spoke to the Norwegian supplier of Skike stuff (Skatemate) and he said that the kids skate V07-S that have 125 mm wheels is going out of production. So in the future it could be harder to get 125 mm tires. And this link I found says the same thing I think. http://www.skike.com.au/skike-spare-parts.html
Its a shame because 6 inch wheels are to big for my casterboard.

 

[beetbocks]

the jenex 125R wheel is doing the same...yes its true the 6" is just that little bit too big..

 

[Neon22]

...
Whilst all these parts are fine for myself ( as my time is free) to produce in any numbers I have to pay the going rate and buy in min batches of 50 to make it worth them setting the machine up .. And I just don't believe I would sell them. ..so I would be stuck with wheels I don't want or need .. U see the problem. .
I could get some plastic rims mass produced in China but that still requires a big investment in molds/ tooling ..and they would be plastic not alloy .. So either way it's a risk I'm not prepared to take .. alien is just a hobby and doesn't pay the mortgage I'm afraid my full time job does ..

I hate to suggest the obvious but if you had a kickstarter - or equivalent - then you could price for a certain quantity and limit it as well if you wanted to.
So you could control costs better...
If your project looked like it wasn't going to make it - you can cancel it and this doesn't prevent you from doing it again with a smaller run.
I'm also pretty sure the UK is now on the list of approved places to run a KS from, so you don't need a US bank account...

Getting the costs down and using pnuematic tyres seems critical to this being successful. A commuter board with long range and not so extreme high speed is probably the best compormise...

I'm sure you've considered it though.

 

[brent]

Waterjetting/lasercutting can be quite a bit cheaper than CNC in medium quantities if you do it in laminations that screw together.

The (built in?) pulley also isn't necessarily a super desirable feature IMO; my 3D printed ones (65% infill, acetone smoothed ABS) only costed my a couple dollars in terms of material, and I've ridden with them for dozens of miles with no sign of failure.

 

[beetbocks]

...
Whilst all these parts are fine for myself ( as my time is free) to produce in any numbers I have to pay the going rate and buy in min batches of 50 to make it worth them setting the machine up .. And I just don't believe I would sell them. ..so I would be stuck with wheels I don't want or need .. U see the problem. .
I could get some plastic rims mass produced in China but that still requires a big investment in molds/ tooling ..and they would be plastic not alloy .. So either way it's a risk I'm not prepared to take .. alien is just a hobby and doesn't pay the mortgage I'm afraid my full time job does ..

I hate to suggest the obvious but if you had a kickstarter - or equivalent - then you could price for a certain quantity and limit it as well if you wanted to.
So you could control costs better...
If your project looked like it wasn't going to make it - you can cancel it and this doesn't prevent you from doing it again with a smaller run.
I'm also pretty sure the UK is now on the list of approved places to run a KS from, so you don't need a US bank account...

Getting the costs down and using pnuematic tyres seems critical to this being successful. A commuter board with long range and not so extreme high speed is probably the best compormise...

I'm sure you've considered it though.

I just dont have the time to run Alien,have a full time job and spend time with my family...so there no way i could organise a KS a as well...a bit of a catch 22 situation..but im stuck really...