Adaptto Mini-E/Max-E Owner's Thread

[Cowardlyduck]

I met up with fellow ES users Lash and 9lives today for a short ride around some of my local tracks while the weather held up.
We had 2 Flux Alpha's (one Lash and one 9lives), my Stealth Fighter and 9lives Phasor, all running Adaptto controllers, mine being the only Mini-E the others Max-E's.
Towards the top of one of the hills, 9lives Phasor started smoking with his son riding it.
Thankfully we had a few GoPro's recording what happened next:
[youtube]gn-MSFksN2k[/youtube]
As you can see, we managed to avoid a fully blown fire, and were able to complete the ride.
I'm glad I always carry a bunch of Co2 with me on every ride. The main reason is to avoid having to change a tube if there's just a slow leak, but it's always been in the back of my mind that they could be useful for a situation exactly like this.

I'm still not exactly sure why it happened, but I think it was a battery hooked up to the BMS that wasn't hooked up to the main discharge harness, so the packs were equalising through the balance leads and BMS. That explains why nothing happened on our ride until a large draw from going up a big hill un-equalised the packs to the point that the balance leads couldn't keep up at transferring the current required to keep the cells at the same voltage.
9lives, please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Cheers

 

[Mammalian04]

Wow! Good thing there weren't 100 bolts to undo to get that cover off. Good thinking too!

 

[Offroader]

cowardlyduck, I guess more proof where you say BMS cause more trouble than they are worth.

 

[brumbrum]

I met up with fellow ES users Lash and 9lives today for a short ride around some of my local tracks while the weather held up.
We had 2 Flux Alpha's (one Lash and one 9lives), my Stealth Fighter and 9lives Phasor, all running Adaptto controllers, mine being the only Mini-E the others Max-E's.
Towards the top of one of the hills, 9lives Phasor started smoking with his son riding it.
Thankfully we had a few GoPro's recording what happened next:
[youtube]gn-MSFksN2k[/youtube]
As you can see, we managed to avoid a fully blown fire, and were able to complete the ride.
I'm glad I always carry a bunch of Co2 with me on every ride. The main reason is to avoid having to change a tube if there's just a slow leak, but it's always been in the back of my mind that they could be useful for a situation exactly like this.

I'm still not exactly sure why it happened, but I think it was a battery hooked up to the BMS that wasn't hooked up to the main discharge harness, so the packs were equalising through the balance leads and BMS. That explains why nothing happened on our ride until a large draw from going up a big hill un-equalised the packs to the point that the balance leads couldn't keep up at transferring the current required to keep the cells at the same voltage.
9lives, please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Cheers

What so you mean by "a battery hooked up to the bms that was not hooked up to the main discharge harness"? So there were cell or cells paralleled by the balance wires but not by the the main pos and neg leads. So the main wires/connectors have come loose and just left the balanced wires still parralled together. That is unfortunate and could happen to most of us who use lots of connectors/connections ..... Gulp!

Were they lipo packs?

 

[Allex]

When I see what was inside of that Phasor, no wonder people have smoke or worst, fires in the houses. I mean, look at all the wiring rubbing each other. And then on top of that we still have people who use lipos under their nuts :|
Be more careful!

 

[DasDouble]

Where did you get this co2´s from? How much are they and where can I buy them? :lol:
I have a 1.184Wh LiPo Pack here, just right to my bed.. Now Im worryed once again :? :lol:

 

[brumbrum]

Where did you get this co2´s from? How much are they and where can I buy them? :lol:
I have a 1.184Wh LiPo Pack here, just right to my bed.. Now Im worryed once again :? :lol:

Co2 cannisters are used to quickly inflate bike tyres.... http://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-16g-co2-inflator-cartridges-pack-of-6/ Use once and then throw away.

 

[velias]

Has anyone had problems with excessive vibrations at certain speeds?
I've had my brand new Mini-E working great for its first 4 days. It was super smooth and quiet compared to my old Kelly KEB controller.
But yesterday it started vibrating when it starts and then again when it is in a 9mph-15mph speed band and then it smooths out above that.
It doesn't seem to vibrate much when the wheel is in the air with no load. Everything shakes and is loud until i get above 15 mph or so.

I'm running a crystalyte 5304 with 52v 14S5P samsung 25r pack and a magura throttle. My pack has its own BMS so I never bothered with the the Adaptto BMS.

The halls on the diagnostics screen cycle 1-6 fine. I measured with a meter the phases in the controller as detailed in the pdf on troubleshooting blown fets at ebikes.ca and everrything looks ok. I've reset the controller and successfully done the autodetect a bunch of times... Still excessive vibrations.

I wonder what is wrong, when it started doing it it was cool in the morning and i just use it for a simple flat commute, not pushing it or overheating it that I know of, though I don't have the motor temp sensor hooked up.
This is disappointing getting 4 days of usage out of it and then this happens.
I should have just bought a replacement Kelly controller.
If its the controller then I guess I should be contacting Russia. Just like I was afraid of when I bought it, no U.S. dealers to solve problems or ship to.

 

[9lives]

I met up with fellow ES users Lash and 9lives today for a short ride around some of my local tracks while the weather held up.
We had 2 Flux Alpha's (one Lash and one 9lives), my Stealth Fighter and 9lives Phasor, all running Adaptto controllers, mine being the only Mini-E the others Max-E's.
Towards the top of one of the hills, 9lives Phasor started smoking with his son riding it.
Thankfully we had a few GoPro's recording what happened next
As you can see, we managed to avoid a fully blown fire, and were able to complete the ride.
I'm glad I always carry a bunch of Co2 with me on every ride. The main reason is to avoid having to change a tube if there's just a slow leak, but it's always been in the back of my mind that they could be useful for a situation exactly like this.

I'm still not exactly sure why it happened, but I think it was a battery hooked up to the BMS that wasn't hooked up to the main discharge harness, so the packs were equalising through the balance leads and BMS. That explains why nothing happened on our ride until a large draw from going up a big hill un-equalised the packs to the point that the balance leads couldn't keep up at transferring the current required to keep the cells at the same voltage.
9lives, please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Cheers

This is a good example of the risks of lipos and that fuses and cutoffs only go so far. In this instance a single cell let go (blew out corner of Cell) and the ensuing voltage differential appears to have fried a bms lead and in the process took out other balance leads. Nothing to do with the bms as the failure occurred before bms. Damage amounts to a few bms join cables and a 5 cell pack written off. The bike was running 20s3p so by disconnecting failed pack and turning bms off my son was able to ride out? If I didn't have the tool to access frame the video may have had a more exciting finale.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Wow! Good thing there weren't 100 bolts to undo to get that cover off. Good thinking too!

Absolutely! I had been thinking about getting some thumb screws for my side cover...I think now I will.

cowardlyduck, I guess more proof where you say BMS cause more trouble than they are worth.

Yes and no. This could have happened to any paralleled group of cells if one let go or a wire came loose, so not the BMS's fault directly.
That being said though, having the BMS does mean you typically have to manage more wires total, so have more points of failure, so still a contributing factor IMO.

What so you mean by "a battery hooked up to the bms that was not hooked up to the main discharge harness"? So there were cell or cells paralleled by the balance wires but not by the the main pos and neg leads. So the main wires/connectors have come loose and just left the balanced wires still parralled together. That is unfortunate and could happen to most of us who use lots of connectors/connections ..... Gulp!

Were they lipo packs?

Yes LiPo packs.
As I mentioned I was not 100% sure on why it happened. See 9lives comment for the exact reason.

When I see what was inside of that Phasor, no wonder people have smoke or worst, fires in the houses. I mean, look at all the wiring rubbing each other. And then on top of that we still have people who use lipos under their nuts :|
Be more careful!

Plenty of people have similar setups (myself included) and have never had any issues. The wires won't be rubbing if they are padded or secured right, which is why 9lives did have padding in there I imagine. I'm not sure how hot the BMS unit can get though, so plastic padding may or may not be the best idea.

Where did you get this co2´s from? How much are they and where can I buy them? :lol:
I have a 1.184Wh LiPo Pack here, just right to my bed.. Now Im worryed once again :? :lol:

Yeah what Brumbrum said is correct. I carry Co2 mainly for re inflating my tires after a flat, or to help me get home if I have a slow leak, which is why I carry so many. I've had it happen a number of times where I've needed to repeatedly dump Co2 into a tire every few km in order to get home without having to replace a tube.

This is a good example of the risks of lipos and that fuses and cutoffs only go so far. In this instance a single cell let go (blew out corner of Cell) and the ensuing voltage differential appears to have fried a bms lead and in the process took out other balance leads. Nothing to do with the bms as the failure occurred before bms. Damage amounts to a few bms join cables and a 5 cell pack written off. The bike was running 20s3p so by disconnecting failed pack and turning bms off my son was able to ride out? If I didn't have the tool to access frame the video may have had a more exciting finale.

Thanks for clearing up what exactly happened 9lives. Similarly, I don't know how it would have panned out if I didn't have that Co2 on hand...it seemed very close to flames a few times just before the Co2 was dumped on.

So the cell that let go went to 0V, or the cable let go?
I assume (like almost everyone) you had a number of cells paralleled before the BMS, and it was that parallel section that saw the voltage differential?

Sounds to me like this could happen to any of us as we almost all parallel mutliple cells together to form a larger pack. This could even happen with an 18650 pack with no 'rubbing' wires if one cell in a group went to 0V and a BMS won't help at all.
AFAIK this just a risk we all take. The ONLY solution to which is a Tesla style pack with cell level fuses.

Cheers

 

[Lurkin]

The most important point has been missed. CD is in desperate need of more appropriate attire.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Sexy-Hot-Fireman-Firefighter-Stripper-Uniform-Mens-Fancy-Dress-Party-Costume-/111888402843?var=&hash=item1a0d11899b:m:mGykVvfTqo2fWM73KUGioWg

:lol:

Well done guys, very MacGyver. 8)

 

[Cowardlyduck]

The most important point has been missed. CD is in desperate need of more appropriate attire.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Sexy-Hot-Fireman-Firefighter-Stripper-Uniform-Mens-Fancy-Dress-Party-Costume-/111888402843?var=&hash=item1a0d11899b:m:mGykVvfTqo2fWM73KUGioWg

:lol:

Well done guys, very MacGyver. 8)

Bahahahaha :lol:
Hope I never have to do that again!
I guess the straps must also look pretty strange to someone who's never seen a GoPro chest mount before...but I wasn't wearing suspenders :lol:

Cheers

 

[Mammalian04]

Wow! Good thing there weren't 100 bolts to undo to get that cover off. Good thinking too!

Absolutely! I had been thinking about getting some thumb screws for my side cover...I think now I will.

I wonder if 1/4 turn fasteners would work like we use on race motorcycles. My screws are constantly backing out on my raptors. I lost 4 on my last ride because I didn't stop to check mid ride. A bunch are already stripped from retightening all the time.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I wonder if 1/4 turn fasteners would work like we use on race motorcycles. My screws are constantly backing out on my raptors. I lost 4 on my last ride because I didn't stop to check mid ride. A bunch are already stripped from retightening all the time.

I stopped having mine loosen after I started using Nylon washers under them.
Finding a thumb screw that didn't stick out by 10+mm was hard, but eventually I found these:
http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/7800951993.html?

Hopefully they do the job.

Cheers

 

[madin88]

Has anyone had problems with excessive vibrations at certain speeds?
I've had my brand new Mini-E working great for its first 4 days. It was super smooth and quiet compared to my old Kelly KEB controller.
But yesterday it started vibrating when it starts and then again when it is in a 9mph-15mph speed band and then it smooths out above that.
It doesn't seem to vibrate much when the wheel is in the air with no load. Everything shakes and is loud until i get above 15 mph or so.

I'm running a crystalyte 5304 with 52v 14S5P samsung 25r pack and a magura throttle. My pack has its own BMS so I never bothered with the the Adaptto BMS.

The halls on the diagnostics screen cycle 1-6 fine. I measured with a meter the phases in the controller as detailed in the pdf on troubleshooting blown fets at ebikes.ca and everrything looks ok. I've reset the controller and successfully done the autodetect a bunch of times... Still excessive vibrations.

I wonder what is wrong, when it started doing it it was cool in the morning and i just use it for a simple flat commute, not pushing it or overheating it that I know of, though I don't have the motor temp sensor hooked up.
This is disappointing getting 4 days of usage out of it and then this happens.
I should have just bought a replacement Kelly controller.
If its the controller then I guess I should be contacting Russia. Just like I was afraid of when I bought it, no U.S. dealers to solve problems or ship to.

Sounds like your problem is similar to the one i have (with the 2WD Mini-E Setup).
Do you have "active mode" set to ON (in regen settings)?
In my case it worked a few days flawless and suddenly the problem crop up. First there are fast vibrations during acceleration and after that (above 5kmh) there apperas a hard "oscillation" or "klock, klock,.. repeating every second.
Additionally i see much higher consumtion on the display (like 10-20A for cruising at 5-10kmh).

The first time, the vibrations disappeared after switching the controllers a few times On and Off, but the last time even many On / Off cycles did not help.
As i was affected with the issue with not saving the thr limits in the display, i anyway was forced to update the Firmware so i did a total reset and adjusted everything once more properly, but i'm afraid if i enable active mode again, the problem could reoccur.

 

[velias]

Sounds like your problem is similar to the one i have (with the 2WD Mini-E Setup).........

Good to know someone else has experienced this.

I will try turning off regen, I've already reset the controller to factory settings and that didn't help.
I will try upgrading the firmware too, I just got the controller last week, it does not have the latest firmware on it.
I was also thinking it could be a worn out throttle, I am using a Magura potentiometer style, i've used for 4 or 5 years. But it seems ok. I may have a spare chinese hall one to try.

This controller really does use more amp hours than my previous kelly controlle for the same commute/bike/motor I think because it is a Sine wave. I noticed when I changed it to pulse, it was more efficient.

I just dont understand why it would work fine and smooth for the first 4 days and then have this vibration problem.
I will contact adaptto about it tommorow and see what they suggest. maybe they will know exactly what the problem is.

 

[Merlin]

Hey folks,

Midi-E is running. beside some personal setup problems, me and she is happy with it :wink:
so theres a near new Kelly Controller KLS for sale *lol

on the weekend i was starting my MAX-E setup....

But i found something weird happen "starting" the MAXe

if i switch only the DISPLAY to the MIDe, it starts normal.
if i switch the display FROM MIDe to the MAXe, it starts in the same way :?

so i dont think its a display "Problem"

[youtube]OVnZm_A4_-Y[/youtube]

 

[brumbrum]

Merlin, if you are sharing one display between two controllers/different setups, there are three reasons I can think of why this may happen.
1. the firmware on the display is different to either the MIDE/MAXE controller
2. The wiring setup is different on the MIDE (meaning, the pins on the plugs from display to MIDE maybe in different configuration to the MAXE).
3. The pins between the display and controller are not making good contact.

Firstly check the firmware is the same on both controllers :wink:

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Here's the video of the ride myself, Lash, 9lives and his son did on the weekend.
All bikes had Max-E's except my Fighter which has the heat-sinked Mini-E.
[youtube]goGQPJwP__g[/youtube]
Still uploading now, but should be done in an hour.

I have to say, after having a brief ride on Lash's Flux Alpha I do miss the raw power that kind of setup can offer. I'm looking forward to running 18S LiPo on my Fighter once again, and seeing what kind of power I can squeeze out of my Mini-E at that voltage.
I flashed it with unlocked firmware just after this ride.
I was already pulling over 100A peak using the LS hack, but my 52V Lifep04 with 600+ cycles doesn't really like it and sags over 12V on WOT so I never really saw much over 5KW. and even then it was only for a spit second. With 18S LiPo I'm hoping for 7KW peaks...I just hope the instantaneous heat of the Mini-E's FETS don't hit critical at that level.

Cheers

 

[olivier2604]

Hi,

i have a 2WD configuration with 2 mini-E (Same firmware revision),
with Slaved MXUS Geared on rear, and Master NC 2605 direct-Drive on Front.

Everything works well, Master drive Slave, but there is a problem with Speed limitation on Slave.

When Setting-Up the Slave controller (Display on Slave), the ECO-NORM-BOOST Speed Limitation works well when using throttle,
but in 2WD (driving from Master), the Speed limitation in ECO-NORM-BOOST don't work on Rear slaved.
It always goes at max speed.
The Speed limitation works well on Master.

Someone have a idea ?

 

[Ultraman]

Another question about "Protect" mode. I've got a Mini-E old version, 20s, Leaf Motor, Vector frame, 1000kms so far on this setup. At the top of a hill I climb regularly at 40 amps the display showed "Protect" for the first time, no throttle response, cogging of motor to make it hard to pedal. I've checked all connections, unhooked and rehooked battery and BMS, but I still get Eco-BMS error-Eco-Charge-Protect within 20 seconds of powering up. Tried disabling BMS, no go. Battery checks out fine. There's no water issues to deal with (as others pointed out with Protect mode earlier in the thread).

I haven't taken apart the controller yet as I'm at work. Anyone have any ideas? Are there hall sensor or mosfett health ratings I need to pay attention to? I do not look forward to pedaling this thing home.

 

[madin88]

Hi,

Everything works well, Master drive Slave, but there is a problem with Speed limitation on Slave.

When Setting-Up the Slave controller (Display on Slave), the ECO-NORM-BOOST Speed Limitation works well when using throttle,
but in 2WD (driving from Master), the Speed limitation in ECO-NORM-BOOST don't work on Rear slaved.
It always goes at max speed.
The Speed limitation works well on Master.

Someone have a idea ?

I have the same problem, but no idea why it doesn't work.
already contacted adaptto and now i'm waiting for an answer.

 

[DasDouble]

I had the same problem with this "protect" thing. Throttle didn´t worked anymore. And when I still pushed it, the controller blocked the motor. I have made a previous post about that problem. All in all I have send it back to Adaptto. They repaired it in 1 day after receiving and are now shipping it back to me

EDIT: Oleg wrote they have changed the "power board".

 

[klyushkov]

Hey folks,

Midi-E is running. beside some personal setup problems, me and she is happy with it :wink:
so theres a near new Kelly Controller KLS for sale *lol

on the weekend i was starting my MAX-E setup....

But i found something weird happen "starting" the MAXe

if i switch only the DISPLAY to the MIDe, it starts normal.
if i switch the display FROM MIDe to the MAXe, it starts in the same way :?

so i dont think its a display "Problem"

Hi. Upgrade firmware, this problem only on stock firmware. With 9G4 no problem.

 

[Merlin]

the midi hasnt with "stock firmware" that Problem...
but yes, i did an Update and it works. Thx

happy first max-e ride yesterday.
made some auto tune runs and a manual setup of the motor (QSv3)
runs really smooth atm.
i have only one Circuit Breaker, but it looks he's ok with 200Amps?!


- Is it "normal" reaching 16KW with 20s?
- I can setup Battery current to 192. On Adapttos website it is only "Max Battery Current - 140A"
- throttle "forgets" sometimes my calibration after switching on/off. -reproducible-
- Regen WH 0000? ...so i have nothing earned from ebraking?!

i have to ride more to make a better compare and limit to 170A battery, but i have heaten my hub alot faster comparing to the sabvoton package...
its the locked firmware.