Another broken aluminum frame - Surface 604 Elements

[markz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k21JDVdGalY

What ya think?
Gluing aluminum

https://www.princessauto.com/en/searchresults?Nr=product.active%3A1&Ntt=aluminum%20brazing%20rods*&Nty=1&No=0&Nrpp=50&Rdm=719&searchType=simple&type=search

I have a blue Benzonite bottle and regular flame regulator.

Worth a try?
Just beef the mofo out of it.
Its not welding or melting target aluminum, but...

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https://www.princessauto.com/en/2-pc-1-8-x-18-in-self-fluxing-aluminum-brazing-rods/product/PA0008471088
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https://www.princessauto.com/en/7-pc-1-8-x-18-in-aluminum-brazing-rods/product/PA0008676884
7 pc 1/8 x 18 in. Aluminum Brazing Rods

 

[nicobie]

I've tried something similar and was not impressed. They kind of work but I doubt they would work on your broken frame. Personally I would not trust that frame anymore. Even if it was welded by a pro and the weld held, I'll bet it would break again right next to where it was welded.

It's time for another frame.

 

[goatman]

i tried those rods on an aluminum water tank, weld was porous, waste of money and effort

 

[markz]

Yeah, but :lol:

I will just have to not go fast and keep your words in the back of my mind.
So you think the rear chain stays on BOTH sides are compramised, I agree as I did ride it and I did feel it move over a couple days of riding, thought it might have been loose fw, loose hub I checked by pressing top of the tire to feel wiggle and nothing.

My online classiieds guy is not responding, back. Today I emailed 2 motorcycle shops and one more one list to email. Those guys will be $100-$200 easy which could go towards another used bicycle.
Custom motorcycle shop wants $120/hour, will get them to throw in a bracing piece, might even get them to beef up the fork dropouts.

Later I may buy a 120V welder, but I may give the 6061 alum a go on my old dc only Lincoln arc welder, its just the family freaks out, its 220V and tons of amps. I could hook it up to the dryer outlet next to the attached garage door. Wife is afraid of my big heavy dc only Lincoln welder with lots of amps.
She freaked out the other day thought I had used it. I did when I first got it, did my first ever weld on it. Then it collected dust ever since. With covid, no one leaves the house so its hard to weld anything.

This 604 might be a good work in progress bike. While I was fixing the motor with new phase wires to winding wires, and putting it all back together so I could see if I fried my controller (which I didnt) I was thinking I could buy a 120V welder that does aluminum, all the cheapies are dc welders. The one yt vid I saw at Weld.com had a rear triangle frame and he only used 80 or 90A, I could use it for a few things like beefy up bike seat, weld the rear rack. I'd also like to get rid of the angled tubes for the triangle to have better fitting batteries.

I bought some 1/8 3.2mm Aluminum Solder Rod today for $14.99, figured I'd buy it and give it a try,see what happens. I scored on some other items at the store, old rusted out $9.99 ammo cans and a few other things. Its a temporary fix. First braze the crack, tomorrow hunt down 6061 to beef it up and the other side. Then at least I can ride, slow and take it easy on the bumps and curbs.

I am pretty sure I bought this item, as its the same price, 2 pcs
https://www.princessauto.com/en/2-pc-1-8-x-18-in-self-fluxing-aluminum-brazing-rods/product/PA0008471088
I figure I will take my rotary, make a valley on the crack and take off the paint around it then heat up the frame with my Bernzomatic Propane blue bottle, pic below. Will literally do all I can fit snuggly.

Metal Superstore has plenty of 6061, selection pic below. Rod, flat.

I may put in normal 26" x 2.50 wheel in the back so I can brace that crack area and possibly have an area for my 36V square battery. Maybe even a 24" wheel.


120V input 75A output might not be enough - https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-inverter-arc-75-stick-welder-0589862p.html#srp

These will go on sale sooner or later for 50% off - This ones DC not AC again 120V input. https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/mastercraft-flux-core-125i-inverter-welder-0581926p.html?rrec=true#spc

https://weldingmagazine.com/how-to-weld-aluminum-with-a-stick-welder/

You need to have a DC stick welder. It works great for welding aluminum.

Might have to dust off my old red Lincoln arc welder and practice on 6061 before I do the bike.

Read the picture comments

I've tried something similar and was not impressed. They kind of work but I doubt they would work on your broken frame. Personally I would not trust that frame anymore. Even if it was welded by a pro and the weld held, I'll bet it would break again right next to where it was welded.

It's time for another frame.

 

[markz]

Well I was pinning my hopes on a bicycle builder but he only works with steel, says Aluminum needs heat treatment post-weld, otherwise welding weakens it even further. That is ok, he seemed like a nice cool dude from his website, hope he's making bicycles.

I went ahead and bought some new 1/4" 6061 thats 2 or 3" by 3' for $32
I probably should have picked up some cheaper thinner 1/8" off-cuts as its 40% off new, they have a ton of off cuts 6061, then double it up. I could grind the 1/4" down a 16'th to get 3/16 or an 1/8 to get 1/8. Flap disks are cheap at KMS tools.
Probably easier to braze thinner material, 1/4" is going to soak up the heat.

I would attach some pics but I got a fresh W10 install and my phone could be compramised, new phone sooner or later.

Plan is like above, 1/4" 6061 plate top and bottom, mitred edges for the melted brazing rod to build up in.
That area is so curved, I was thinking of smaller plates on the sides of the crack. Dare I drill a hole and create new cracks :lol:

I will have another serious eyeball of the area and ponder buying off cut 1/8". Its a 2 hour trip via peasant transport and I barely made it in the 1.5hrs for $3.50 fare, needed 3 extra train stops = 20 minutes.

I will take the paint off the bike where its being brazed and figure out what to use to clean the 6061 brazing area and might go on the hunt for some flux.

Plan, primarily heat the thick 1/4", but also heat up the frame and use the laser temp device.
I will slice off a chunk of 6061 and practice first on an old alum seatpost thats hopefully 6061 to 1/4" alum.

 

[MadRhino]

If you can’t weld alu and get through all the troubles stripping the frame and find an oven that is big enough, you could do the repair with carbon fiber and epoxy. Epoxy does stick very good to alu, and proper repairs had proved stronger than the original.

 

[LewTwo]

Years ago I got some of those 'aluminum brazing' rods ... or something similar. I wanted to make a motor bracket for a small Taig hobby lathe out of 1/4 aluminum plate via a "T" joint using a map gas torch. Took several tried but I finally got it to stick. The first several broke but I finally got one that stayed together and used it for several years.

There are lots of vendors providing something very similar these days. One that comes to mind is 'muggyweld'. Do not believe I would trust it to anything really structural that risks life or limb. Hard to tell if you have a bad joint until it fails and then it is too late. I think I might have more confidence in JBWeld and some kind of woven fiber (CF, Glass or Basalt) reinforcement.

 

[markz]

Doing some cleaning and I saw when I purchased the used Surface 604 Elements fat bike that had barely any scratches on it, the bike lasted 6 months, probable failure was the 160mm hub on a 180mm rear dropout or defective q.c.

 

[99t4]

...probable failure was the 160mm hub on a 180mm rear dropout...

Meaning that by force-clampng the aluminum rear triangle dropout opening closed 10mm per side overly stressed the front of the chainstay to failure?

 

[markz]

Yea thats my arm chair analysis
Actually I never squished in the side on the brake, I only squished in the other side, the side that broke.

...probable failure was the 160mm hub on a 180mm rear dropout...

Meaning that by force-clampng the aluminum rear triangle dropout opening closed 10mm per side overly stressed the front of the chainstay to failure?

 

[99t4]

So that would be 20mm on that one side. Makes sense. Maybe that's why they tell us not to bend the stay spacing on aluminum frames! :lol: