Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

[Olek.x]

We will be launching you say,who are we and where to order?

To7

 

[Olek.x]

We are working to set up distributors, warranty and service centers at the moment.

If you have a preferred distributor you would like to use please list them and i will reach out to them.

Kind regards

Alex

 

[1boris]

We are working to set up distributors, warranty and service centers at the moment.

If you have a preferred you would like to use please list them and i will reach out to them.

Kind regards

Alex

Hi,
To7 is good enough for me.But for serious distributors in Europe you could try

ebike-solutions.com

Ihr Fahrrad zum E-Bike nachrüsten: Wir haben den passenden Nachrüstsatz! Individuelle Lösungen ✓ kompetente Beratung ✓ Ersatzteile ✓ 10 Jahre Erfahru…

www.ebike-solutions.com

I would also try luna Cycle and Em3ev and UK assembled electric bikes and kits

 

[hemo]

All looks a bit of a cock up from where I am , the bird flew from the coupe before it was ready to be released. Now To7 are a little on the back foot before being completly ready for launch.

 

[wooshbikes]

thank you 1boris for mentioning us. I am genuinely interested in what to7 are doing and believe they have a great opportunity there with both their DM-01 and DM-02. I like verything they do in their quick comparison table. Shame about the little spat I have with Alex in the UK pedelecs forum.
Can't wait to see the new products reviewed.

 

[Elinx]

A small update for the ones that are still interested in ToSeven.

For what I have seen ToSeven is, besides here on EndlessSphere, mentioned at several places:
Pedelecforum.de - Besides the description of the torquesensor and a comparision between DM-02 and Tsdz2 nothing new
Pedelecs.co.uk - Besides a lot irritating and sometimes aggressive trolls too, there is also sometimes interesting info. (For example @Blacklite will test the DM-02)
Discord.com (you must register to view content) - Most messages are about DM-01 as a BBSHD replacement. Imho it looks that a lot people don't care about torquesensing and only want more power.
One person (JS) has done a microreview of the DM-01, because it did run only for 10 minutes.

"some delay in assist. start/stop cadence. When stopping cadence, it applies power for 1 sec. torque no kick at low gears. Better in high gears.
Lacks sensitivity??. Throttle takeoff wasnt overly smooth either.
Stock display basic as it gets, dont see any programming funcitonality. Just 0-5 levels and speedometer.
dunno, 10 mins isnt whole lot to make a good overview
Hope this defect not design flaw.Nothing special to my setup/mount. BBSHD mounted identically and i used 4-5 kilowatts for years. Still works
Here i used.. max 1000 watts,.. for 8-10 minutes? Less than 1 volt on battery"

The reason was a modified BB that wasn't suitable enough for mounting the DM-01 rocksteady.
The DM-01 (and DM-02 problably too) is only secured by the BB locknut and does miss a second clamp (as with Tsdz2 and M625).
Toseven has made on custom request a batch without torquesensor for a big customer. Because of the mentioned assist delay, there was a (unverified) rumour that this party could sold the DM-01 without torquesensor to another retailer.

 

[Matze_Senpai]

while i am interested in dm01 i am disappointed that its "only" rated for 30a. i already got a bbshd with the same power level, if it was 40a then i would def have more interest .

 

[Elinx]

while i am interested in dm01 i am disappointed that its "only" rated for 30a. i already got a bbshd with the same power level, ....

30A for DM-01 is on par with BBSHD, the main difference is the presence of a torque sensor for DM-01.
But it looks that BBSHD users are not interested in this feature and only want more power.
imho this is something ToSeven should look at if there are some possibilities to increase that current limit.
Otherwise they are only judged on the price difference and reliability with BBSHD

I am only interested in the DM-02 as a possible replacement for the Tsdz2, but I remain critical of the current price for the time being.
This is because nothing is known about the operation and quality, except for what has been written by ToSeven itself.

Earlier there was the Lingbei, designed by former Bafang engineers, which has disappointed with the torque sensor, sales and customization of the firmware. All things that would not be an issue with the To7 DM series.

 

[Bengy22]

while i am interested in dm01 i am disappointed that its "only" rated for 30a. i already got a bbshd with the same power level, if it was 40a then i would def have more interest .

30A for DM-01 is on par with BBSHD, the main difference is the presence of a torque sensor for DM-01.
But it looks that BBSHD users are not interested in this feature and only want more power.
imho this is something ToSeven should look at if there are some possibilities to increase that current limit.
Otherwise they are only judged on the price difference and reliability with BBSHD

I am only interested in the DM-02 as a possible replacement for the Tsdz2, but I remain critical of the current price for the time being.
This is because nothing is known about the operation and quality, except for what has been written by ToSeven itself.

As someone with a high power bbshd I agree, would have really been cool to see this motor also get a slight bump in power compared to the bbshd. It's got a internal temp sensor and thermal roll back, and the bbshd can handle 40a quite well you just need to pay attention to temps. Maybe even just 72v support would have been cool. But maybe in the future we can see a DM-0X, a bump in rated power to say 1500w or 2000w and a 72v controller with say 50a? One can dream haha but I would swap my bbshd for that.

I also agree most people with bbshd's will probably look past this motor though, hard to justify spending money buying a whole new unproven motor just for torque sensing. But I can see people interested in buying a bbshd considering it though, torque sensing has been something a lot of people have been asking for. Being slightly cheap than a bbshd will help its case, and give enough time we shall see how it compares to a bbshd in operation and quality. A bump in power could be vital to getting people to taking the bbshd off the radar for it though....

 

[Elinx]

As someone with a high power bbshd I agree, would have really been cool to see this motor also get a slight bump in power compared to the bbshd. ....

imho this is the case with the new ToSeven DM serie

DM-01 is interesting for BBSHD users and DM-02 is interesting for Tsdz2 users, but for different reasons.
The first group want more power and the second group want better mechanical and thermal reliabity.
Both groups are quite satisfied with what they have now and therefore expect more from To7.

I really hope that To7 takes a good look at the comments they get and does something with it, to help To7 be successful

 

[pxl666]

I really hope that To7 takes a good look at the comments they get and does something with it, to help To7 be successful

guy who seems/claims to be their representative gives the impression that these won't happen ... he seems to avoid any questions regarding that matter .
on the other hand - these motors are already on sale at pswpower and if they decided to sell them it seems to be considered finished product with no room for user-participants improvements . whole thing looks bad for me

 

[Olek.x]

guy who seems/claims to be their representative gives the impression that these won't happen ... he seems to avoid any questions regarding that matter .
on the other hand - these motors are already on sale at pswpower and if they decided to sell them it seems to be considered finished product with no room for user-participants improvements . whole thing looks bad for me

Questions regarding what?

 

[Elinx]

....he seems to avoid any questions regarding that matter .....

I think it is not so black and white as you presented. Imho you refer to questions made on pedelecs. But I can't take that threat with all these trolls and bad critisism representative for user participation.
Also there is clearly communicated that To7 had withdrawn the sales of PSWpower, so it isn't clear where these motors come from.
In the worst case scenario, the DM-01 is delivered without torquesensor, because that batch comes from a third party.

 

[Olek.x]

I think it is not so black and white as you presented. Imho you refer to questions made on pedelecs. But I can't take that threat with all these trolls and bad critisism representative for user participation.
Also there is clearly communicated that To7 had withdrawn the sales of PSWpower, so it isn't clear where these motors come from.
In the worst case scenario, the DM-01 is delivered without torquesensor, because that batch comes from a third party

They got motors from us and some of those got shipped to Germany. Those are the ones now on sale in Germany.

Currently we are setting up distribution in each region but it won't happen overnight. We are looking for the right partners to work with.

Until then we are setting up our own AliExpress store to meet the customer demand as we have a lot of interest and requests to buy our motors.

we will transition to local distribution where customers can access warranty, servicing and repairs.

 

[Elinx]

They got motors from us ....

Thank for clearing this up.

About the launch of the ToSeven DM serie you have seen there are a lot of questions about the technical solutions To7 has made in comparision with BBSHD and Tsdz2, to improve quality and user experience.
But besides some answers there isn't much detail publiced. Also not on the To7 webpages.
Can you please give some information when we can expect that?
Or must we wait for third party reviews from early adopters?

 

[pxl666]

Questions regarding what?

and you are ?...

 

[Elinx]

and you are ?...

Alex

 

[Olek.x]

Thank for clearing this up.

About the launch of the ToSeven DM serie you have seen there are a lot of questions about the technical solutions To7 has made in comparision with BBSHD and Tsdz2, to improve quality and user experience.
But besides some answers there isn't much detail publiced. Also not on the To7 webpages.
Can you please give some information when we can expect that?
Or must we wait for third party reviews from early adopters?

Im trying to answer questions when and where i feel i can. I recognise i haven't answered all and i hope to get round to them all in time

I think we give most of information the majority would need to make a purchase.

However i do recognise that on forum's like this users are often enthusiasts with good knowledge themselves who want a lot of technical details.

There are some im fine with discussing some id rather not and its not to hide information from end users its that we have not fully launched our products yet as you can see.

Part of it is we are launching 2 new motors with 2 variations each. It takes significant investment and its a competitive industry.

Review samples are being sent out to respected people in the industry who will do independent reviews, so those reviews will be available at the same time as our motors are launching


I will try be more clear on questioning

 

[Olek.x]

Above its implied the motors are a done deal and that's it.. and in their current form yes.. we are launching as they are described.

However that definitely doesn't mean we won't be open to launching more powerful versions or adding more features at a later date,

I think we need to be logical about this. These are our latest products and what we are comfortable to launch now.

To take the DM-01 now, slap a 40a controller on it and throw it out the door with no prior in-house testing would be a lot of fun but..... irresponsible.

Separately from a market point of view the 40a version is likely to be more niche. If we think its possible to launch the motor with a 40a controller without compromising reliability we will take a serious look at that.
However its not coming tomorrow. We understand the excitement over the possibilities, we are excited about it too, but proper development and testing needs to take place.

We do really appreciate the interest and suggestions you all have.. so don't hold back on those. Just give us some time to implement them in the correct way..

Thanks

 

[pxl666]

so don't buy but wait to implement what you want? you still produce tons of sentences that do not answer things people want to know .
are motors safe from overheat ?
what can be changed from display?
are they going to be compatible with other displays not this big thing pswpower sells them with?
will the smaller motor be compatible with 48v not only 36 ?
are they waterproof to the point of safely wash with power washer ?
to do a simple service like greasing will there be need to torn apart whole motor or just 5 screws and open cover with gears ?
now IMPORTANT. in EU there is a strong need to have built in street mode (25kmh/250w) along with easily switchable sport mode (unrestricted) is this possible?
what type of chainrings I can screw on factory spider? looks like 110bcd

will you answer these or they are secret?

 

[Elinx]

.....

will you answer these or they are secret?

I think he clearly answered that he himself can't not always answer the technical questions in depth, so it remains unanswered if he doesn't get backup of To7. Best is to wait for technical reviews.

FYI
Overheating is answered here with a picture.
Display choice is publiced there

 

[pxl666]

I think he clearly answered that he himself can't not always answer the technical questions in depth, so it remains unanswered if he doesn't get backup of To7. Best is to wait for technical reviews.

FYI
Overheating is answered here with a picture.
Display choice is publiced there

if he is a salesman his obligation is to ask engineers and come back with answers. if they seem to uncover any secret manufacturing process ? I doubt it . pswpower sells these motors with one display choice as of now so this is only reliable info as of now . photo of the motor casing looks different from their motor ...
it's so fishy ...

 

[Elinx]

if he is a salesman his obligation is to ask engineers and come back with answers. if they seem to uncover any secret manufacturing process ? ...

Alex isn't a salesman, but the EU contact for To7. But it seems he isn't as technical as we expect.
Imho he underestimated the technical questions he got on the different fora.
At least we all know now of the existance of ToSeven and their plans for the market.
Have patience and give it some time and all answers will come.

 

[raylo32]

DM01 is pretty much a BBSHD with torque sense? That sounds good to me. I'll watch this thread and see if this works out to be available and hopefully reliable.

 

[Elinx]

DM01 is pretty much a BBSHD with torque sense? .... to be available and hopefully reliable.

For now you can buy these ToSeven DM series motor only at PSWPower (direct or on AliExpress)