Behavior question regarding 90Ah Winston cells

dutchlincoln

100 W
Joined
Sep 27, 2011
Messages
135
Hello,

Recently i put 16Pcs. of Winston Cells in my electric scooter.
Free float voltage just after charging is 57 volts, which drops almost immediately to 52-53 volts when i turn on my lights.
When i pull the throttle, voltage drops to 48 volts, which is normal according to specs. (3v/cell under load)
Now, about one week later, during acceleration, voltage drops to 46 volts....
This is in the morning, with a fully charged pack.
I have not measured, but i assume approximately 40-50 amps load pulled max, which is exactly within even recommended discharge, not even peak.
This is my first expirience with Winston cells, so maybe someone could chime in, and tell me if this is normal?
I'm a bit disappointed about such voltage drop...
These 90Ah cells were taken from a brandnew "battery" of 4 cells in series, that are also sold by Winston.
What the company they sell claim, is that they are fine balanced 90Ah cells in one package, and a good alternative for loose sold cells, as the package of 4 is a bit cheaper.
When i look at the specs however, the loose cells and the "package cells" differ from specs.
Loose cells are given optimal vs max charge-discharge of 45 vs 270Ah.
Package cells are given optimal vs max charge-discharge of 45 vs 90Ah.

To me, this assumes that they actually are different then loose cells, and have an higher internal resistance, which explains the above mentioned voltage sag?

If anyone can shine his light about this, i'd be very happy.
Thank you.
 
Is it cold where you are? Large format LiFePO4 does sag down to 48 V in a 16s arrangement, but I have seen 46 V on some cooler mornings.

Make sure each cell is charged to 3.65 V (i.e. balance them) and your pack will be as good as it can get.
 
Hello JonesCG,

It was cold this morning indeed, around freezing or just above.
I charge them to 58.8 volts indeed, which effectively is 3.65V/each.

So, you say its safe to say they are allright?

Thanks.
 
About freezing would explain their saggy behaviour. Sounds right. Cold weather sag is something we virtually never notice here...
 
Okay, but (chinese!) spec's state they can handle minus 45 Celcius operating temperature...
If "operating" means you can run a flashlight bulb on them, it's worth nothing also... :(

What would you state as an "empty" voltage?

Thanks!
 
It's LiFePO4, so voltage is a poor indicator of SOC. Coulomb counting is really the most reliable way to work out state of charge, but at a pinch, if your pack is sagging below 44 V on a mild day, it's probably done.

-40'C operation? :lol: Yeah, that's gotta be BS. Batteries are at their happiest between 25'C and 40'C, and anything outside this range is not as good. I'd say -15'C would be the coldest you would ever want to take a vehicle out in, and even then, park it somewhere warm!
 
Ok.

I have my Founding power ebs-bms arriving soon from now, so that would be a good indicator.
I just don't want to destroy cells by having them discharged too far...
Also, i'd like to go no further then 70%DOD in order to increase lifespan.

thanks for your great info, always appreciated.
 
yup that's cold sag right
try to test the batteries with a dummy load indoors and see what you get - depending on how many c's your hitting these cells with it shouldnt drop under 52.8
i had calbs which are very similar to windston
16 of them in series.... off charger is 57.6
as soon as you put a load on it it should drop to 3.3/per cell and stay there for a long time
so basically it should be 52.8 - under norma 1c load- now if you're pulling something crazy like 5c it will be lower....or when your batteries start running low this voltage will drop as well
but you're running 90ah cells that's 0.5c
 
Davec,

The spec's of the cell state that voltage drops to 3v/cell under load....
I had headways and A123's before these, and they stay quite well on voltage indeed.
Thats why i think these 4-pack batterys are a lower quality then the loose 90Ah cells.
When i pull the throttle, voltage drops a bit, in order to drop further after a few sec's, then rising again.
I think that the low-voltage point is the point where the most amps are drawn.
The main fuse however is 100 Amps, and my pack is extra protected by a 125Amp fuse (placed instead of a connection terminal between 2 cells), so it definately won't go above 1c, rather .5c indeed.
 
assuming you are using the 90ah
here is the specs : http://en.winston-battery.com/index.php/products/power-battery/item/wb-lyp90aha?category_id=176
under 0.5c load - 3.2 is normal
3.1 @ 1c
so it should still be between 49-51v
seems like low quality indeed
 
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