Best front hub motor for rc ESC

[hillzofvalp]

What type of front hub COULD work with an rc esc (Castle 160 hv ice)? I would like the option of running 24v to 36v. I prefer a hub that is smaller, and I want acceleration/power between 15 and 25 mph on a 700c road bike. (using m1 batteries)

I would also like to get the bare hub so I can have it built up on mavic open pros or another velocity rim to match what I already have. 36h is okay but I think 32h would be easier for me to match.

I know these are untouched grounds as far as rc escs + standard "ebike" motors go. But a motor is a motor.

 

[johnrobholmes]

For lightweight, the smaller bafang motors will be the best bet. The Puma style motor would work too, but the RC controllers do not like them so much as they lose sync fairly easily. Otherwise you may be able to find some smaller Ananda type hubs.

You won't be likely to find anyone willing to lace a 36h hub into a 32h rim. Although possible, it makes for a wonky wheel that is very difficult to adjust. Hub motors only come in 36h flavors.

 

[liveforphysics]

The hubmotors I've measured R and L values for have been a breeze to power compared to an RC motor. In some cases, 10 hubmotors all in parallel would still be less burden than a single high performance RC motor.

The controller should be fine running anything that it can maintain a sync with.

 

[hillzofvalp]

Thanks for the quick responses!

so which one is best, though? what would I feel as a rider, putting it in 53-12/13/14 gearing and full throttle? Like riding with no head wind/air resistance? could I get up to 25mph on flats while not panting too hard? (my bike will weigh around 34lbs modified I'm guessing. maybe 31. I weigh 200.)

I'll definitely run 36h.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Best is pretty subjective On 24v you will need a very fast wind to hit 20mph. On 36v a standard speed hub motor will get there. I vote for a Bafang style, since you will only need it for a few hills (per our emails).

 

[liveforphysics]

It's really only makes sense to run at the peak voltage the ESC can handle.

 

[hillzofvalp]

Just for clarification, I meant that I would rarely be going up steep hills, and I would rarely need assistance up a hill. It was my initial goal, but I soon discovered it would be a challenge when trying to reduce weight/clutter. I think you meant that I will be fine with the bafang because the bafang isn't good on hills, which doesn't matter to me much. correct?

Is the one you sell for 36V only? I looked on their site and saw multiple hubs that looked similar.. some said 24v/36v some said one or the other.

 

[johnrobholmes]

I just keep the 36v versions in stock.

The bafang isn't great on hills, but it is still better than nothing!

 

[hillzofvalp]

It's really only makes sense to run at the peak voltage the ESC can handle.

Why is that? this ESC can do around 50V. If I wanted 24v I should get a cheaper esc and burn it up? I thought getting a higher voltage would keep temps down.

 

[liveforphysics]

It's really only makes sense to run at the peak voltage the ESC can handle.

Why is that? this ESC can do around 50V. If I wanted 24v I should get a cheaper esc and burn it up? I thought getting a higher voltage would keep temps down.

When you have a 50v capable ESC, you pay for that added voltage handling ability in the inherently higher RdsOn of the FETs, and higher ESR of higher voltage rated caps.

Those prices you pay don't decrease if you choose to run 10v or 50v, but if you run 50v you at least get to take advantage of a higher motor operating speed range, and/or higher gearing, and/or a higher turn-count motor to reduce phase current (and reduce controller heating).

Also, a brushless motor has no idea or concern with what voltage number may be written on a given motor (until you exceed the mechanical RPM limit for the bearings or rotor and it explodes/fails). As a rule of thumb, running a "36v" brushless motor at 48v simply makes everything perform better.

 

[hillzofvalp]

My understanding was that there is the issue of hub motors generating heat when operated at off-label voltages, even lower voltages. I guess whoever communicated that to me was over-exaggerating. Thanks for the info though!

Is the puma going to be more efficient than the bafang? Is it imperative I replace one of the planetary gears with Lyen's metal ones?

 

[johnrobholmes]

As to running at higher voltage, that would be a good way to kill the gears in a hub motor. Since the CC controller isn't current limited, you will be relying on your own judgement and throttle limiting to keep everything happy. If you want to run 36v, a 50v controller is your best option. If you want to run 24v, I would still recommend a 50v controller since the 25v RC controllers would be likely to fail from voltage ripple.

Don't always listen to Luke, he likes to push limits and burn stuff up in the name of best performance :lol: Sometimes the goal of reliable transportation is lost on him.

 

[hillzofvalp]

Can't I just set the governor with the usb interface to bring down the amps?

So Could I get the same speeds at 24v as running at say 36V with a 25a ebike controller since the amperage goes much higher?

 

[liveforphysics]

If you want to run 24v, I would still recommend a 50v controller since the 25v RC controllers would be likely to fail from voltage ripple.

You've gotta run the controllers that can hold sync. None of the 25v stuff I've tried has been worth a damn for holding sync. This is why the HV160 is the logical choice for an RC controller.

However, it's honestly not much different in size than a 6-fet ebike controller (which has sensor input and is designed around this application), and may even weigh more.

 

[johnrobholmes]

it is possible that you could get greater speeds without the amp limit, but it depends on many factors.

Using governor mode won't regulate your speed properly. I'm not even sure that you would have any speed regulation if you were in Heli mode.


I agree on just using a little 6 FET controller. In the long run they just work better for an ebike.

 

[hillzofvalp]

could I still use the BEC for lights at high voltages? I'm assuming that the BEC voltage will just increase... which would damage receivers and the like. For powering LED headlights would this warning be relevant? Castle states:
"If you are using more than ten NiMH/NiCad cells, more than 3 LiPo cells, or your power consumption is excessive, you must disable the BEC and use a separate power source for the receiver. Disable the BEC by cutting or removing the red wire from the servo connector on the controller. Do not use the BEC to power other items on your plane such as lights."

 

[johnrobholmes]

There is no BEC on the HV series of controllers.

 

[hillzofvalp]

WHat is this for? is it adjustable?

"Current Limiting
ESC optionally detects an over-current and shuts down to protect it’s circuitry."

limiting ranges from 40-70A and disabled. Helpful?

There are also custom motor timing adjustments....

 

[johnrobholmes]

It is not adjustable below about 180 amps, but that is for the HV160 version. There is basically a high, medium, and low type setting, and it only monitors battery current.

 

[hillzofvalp]

Will playing with these settings be of use? Maybe increased efficiency at starts?

 

[hillzofvalp]

This [castle ice hv 160) esc is definitely smaller than 6fet ebike controllers. It also has built-in cut-off which I don't think that the others do. And I don't think I could log stuff with an ebike controller very easily, either.

It actually might be possible to get a little netbook/tablet/smartphone going on my bike for real-time diagnostics through castle-link. I think it may be possible to get this real time data from esc to the tablet while riding--- but that's a separate topic

 

[Drunkskunk]

This esc is definitely smaller than 6fet ebike controllers. It also has built-in cut-off which I don't think that the others do. And I don't think I could log stuff with an ebike controller very easily, either.

What ESC are you talking about?

You can't use most RC ESCs, they won't function for low RPM hub motors. They won't sync up, and will blow up with in seconds.

Only the HV160 is proven to work with hub motors reliably. And for your application, a 6 FET Ebike controller is a better option, and similar in size

 

[hillzofvalp]

(I was talking about the < 4x2" cc ice hv 1600)

could you link me to a good 6 fet controller? Can the 6 FET controllers work at 24v better or the same as the CC hv160 esc at 24v? Are RC ESCs less efficient?

 

[johnrobholmes]

The CC ESC will be more efficient all around, and it syncs fine with the Bafang. It doesn't like the Puma at under hard acceleration.


Little 6 fet- http://holmeshobbies.com/product.php?productid=417&cat=20&page=1

Nicer version - http://holmeshobbies.com/product.php?productid=418&cat=20&page=1

I have stopped using the HV 160 right now in favor of the 6 fet and 12 fet controllers. They tend to be more reliable over the long term when built and programmed right. Plus they keep the motor from smoking when matched to them.

In the new for sale section there are vendors who build them as well. Lyen has plenty of experience and great customer service from what I hear.

 

[Hillhater]

john,
have you ever tried the CC Mamba Max pro sensored ESC instead of the mini 6 FET unit.??
Or is the voltage limit (6S) too low for your use ?