BMS system assembled - motor does not spin

[A..dam]

Finally completed my DIY set-up.
Raised the front wheel from the floor so it could spin freely.
Connected battery. Display is live, speed sensor works if I spin the front wheel manually.
The red LED of the HWBS is lit.
The throttle does not work, i.e. motor does not spin.
Do I need to enter any parameters into the Display/Computer S-LCD5, get the different Display/Computer or change the controller to make throttle work without pedaling?
I want to be able to use the set-up for BOTH assist and throttle only use.

All parts are from BMS.
Motor Q 75 36 V
Controller Torque Simulation Square Wave S06P
Display/Computer S-LCD5
Half-Twist Throttle # 611
PAS Ten Poles #579
Hidden Wire Brake Sensor #459
Speed Sensor #550
#s are from BMS website

How to resolve the issue?
Thanks, A

 

[d8veh]

The red led on the HWBS shouldn't be lit. You've probably got it on the wrong end of the cable, so it's working backwards. Check if the light goes out when you pull the brake, then the motor will work. If iy doesn't go out, you have a stiff cable or something, so just disconnect it until you get everything working smoothly.

 

[A..dam]

So, I disconnected the HWBS, motor works.
BUT... I want to use this safety feature!!!

Did some troubleshooting: Connected spare HWBS, without any brake cable inside, no power, red light lit again.
Connected manual switch brake levers (I got them as well from BMS), they work when the braking is simulated (i.e.
levers are depressed). Pressing those or leaving it closed has no effect on HWBS behaviour.
I am including a picture, the brake connector is on top.
It consist of a dongle: 2 wires Yellow+Black for manual switch brake levers, and 3 wires Yellow+Black+red for HWBS.
Since I want to retain original brake levers I want to go with HWBS instead of manual switch brake levers.
E-mailed my question to BMS - no answer from those buggers.
Anybody knows what to do?
Thanks, A..dam

 

[d8veh]

The HWBS is directional. There's a hole in one end to receive the cable and a spiggot on the other end to go into a cable receiver. In the position you have installed it, it can only go one way round, but that is the wrong way. You have to follow the cable outer to its other end and mount the HWBS there so that it's the other way round.

Say you have an inner and outer cable that runs from the lever to the brake, and that you've fitted the HWBS at the lever end between the lever and the cable outer. You have to reinstall it at the brake end between the brake and the outer.

You should also check that the wires match on either side of the connector and note the unusual colours on the HWBS: Red is 5v, blue is signal, yellow is ground. In their wiring diagram for the S06P, they say blue ground and yellow signal, but I think that's wrong. The only way to be sure is to open the controller to see where the yellow and blue wires go.

 

[A..dam]

I believe I have installed HWBS correctly, with the pointy end towards brake, LED is at the bottom. see photo
In any case, the spare HWBS without cable stops motor too.
That dongle is the only correct possibility for hook-up, but the controller's wires are different colors than on the diagram.
ALSO, wires from sensors very often do not match colors of connectors from controller.
For example, the manual switch levers brakes I got from BMS, have red and black while controller's side is black and yellow.

 

[d8veh]

It should be easy to find the solution to your problem. If the red LED goes out when you operate the brake, then the HWBS is on the wrong end of the cable. Note that you can get them supplied for either way round, so your one could still be installed on the wrong end of the cable.

If the LED doesn't go out when you operate the brake, then the connection sequence is incorrect. Assuming that the red wires match (please check) then you need to reverse the blue and yellow wires on one of the connectors.

 

[A..dam]

I have connected spare King Meter HWBS from Blue My Sky and used spare steel cable to manipulate the small magnet which is housed inside the sensor. I tried all orientations/combination of movements and the red is LED always on and the motor is shut down. I do not think that the orientation of the sensor is important, important is the movement of the magnet inside.
I am including a picture of a controller with the connections which are not currently in use; all other sensors, LCD, throttle, speed work fine. (did not tested yet PAS)
The controller outputs the following voltages to the sensor: black 0V, yellow 5V, red 4.25V. Note that on the HWBS side blue wire is substituted for the black one.
Send the following message to BMS. Hope that they care about their reputation and respond promptly.
“I need to use HWBS so send me either (FREE SHIPPING) new sensors or a new controller:
1. You can send new S06P
OR
2. Send LSW-675 and I will pay you a difference between it and what I paid for a combination of S06P and LCD-5”

 

[d8veh]

As I said, you've connected incorrectly. The yellow on the sensor is ground, so it should be connected to the black. The blue sensor wire is the signal wire, which goes to the yellow on the controller side.

 

[A..dam]

HOW to check? "Assuming that the red wires match (please check)"
Looks like that BMS incorrectly attached wires to the connector...
Any chance of frying up the controller by trying to figure out correct wire order?

 

[d8veh]

Trust me. I've fitted lots of these sensors. Red is 5v, blue is signal (switched 5v) and yellow is ground. That's even shown in the picture in the BMSB listing. You have your wires crossed, which is why it doesn't work.

BMSB didn't do anything wrong. That sensor matches their controllers perfectly. You've chosen a different controller, which doesn't match the sensor wiring.

 

[A..dam]

In the meantime I have contacted King-Meter.
They quickly responded with sensor connector specs which are same as you have recently mentioned.
"Red is 5v, blue is signal (switched 5v) and yellow is ground."
But "BMSB didn't do anything wrong" is plainly ridiculous.
I have ordered the whole system INCLUDING S06P controller and HBWS from them.
THEY incorrectly wired the connector plug so it does not match HWBS.
MOREOVER, when I contacted them 3 times asking for explanation, they did not respond at all.
That is HORRIBLE customer service.

P.S. This weekend I will re-solder connection and test the set-up. Keep the fingers crossed.

 

[d8veh]

P.S. This weekend I will re-solder connection and test the set-up. Keep the fingers crossed.

You don't need to solder anything. You can swap the pins over in the connector. On the male connector (female pins), you remove the pins by pushing down on the barbed part and pulling the wire.

 

[A..dam]

Thank you, d8veh...
I got some time yesterday, connected everything according to the HWBS requirements (although I wonder about 4.25V for the signal wire) [red +5V, yellow 0V, blue 4.25V] and NO SUCCESS.
Motor, operated via throttle, still does not work when HWBS is plugged in. Used spare HWBS for testing, same result.
But, unlike last time the red LED is not on at any time (I used existing handlebar brake, and/or a spare sensor& brake cable to manipulate the sensor(s) in all possible configurations/positions)
So there are few possibilities:
1. Controller S06P is not compatible with HWBS
2. Wrong original wiring fried HWBS sensors
3. The LCD-5 is in the default factory mode (I am just starting trying to figure out parameters, like P1 for Q75 201 rpm) and maybe there is a setting for HWBS there.
Interestingly, still no word from BMS Battery folks. Buyer beware...

 

[d8veh]

Thank you, d8veh...
I got some time yesterday, connected everything according to the HWBS requirements (although I wonder about 4.25V for the signal wire) [red +5V, yellow 0V, blue 4.25V] and NO SUCCESS.
Motor, operated via throttle, still does not work when HWBS is plugged in. Used spare HWBS for testing, same result.
But, unlike last time the red LED is not on at any time (I used existing handlebar brake, and/or a spare sensor& brake cable to manipulate the sensor(s) in all possible configurations/positions)
So there are few possibilities:
1. Controller S06P is not compatible with HWBS
2. Wrong original wiring fried HWBS sensors
3. The LCD-5 is in the default factory mode (I am just starting trying to figure out parameters, like P1 for Q75 201 rpm) and maybe there is a setting for HWBS there.
Interestingly, still no word from BMS Battery folks. Buyer beware...

1 The S06P is compatible. I've used a couple with HWBSs from BMSB
2 The wiring is 5v. It won't damage a HWBS
3. There's no settings for brake sensors.

The brake sensor is a simple switch. The controller holds the signal wire at 5v. When you connect it to ground, it gets pulled down to 0v, which gives the two conditions: 5v or 0v (high or low). The CPU checks the condition of that wire. If it sees 5v, it gives power. If it sees 0v, it cuts the power.

You can test the controller. With the connector disconnected the power should be on. If you short the yellow and black wire, it should cut power.

The red wire is only used to power the HWBS. I don't think you can test the HWBS in a not installed condition because it gets some sort or initialisation. I've had them stick on before, in which case, you have to switch off the controller, make sure the brake is off and then switch the controller back on.

The fact that your HWBS'a LED was on and now is off implies that it's working.

I would try one more time. Install the HWBS properly, ensure that you have the correct red to red blue to yellow and yellow to black connection, and see if it works. I've never known one not work except when installed upside-down or with the incorrect connection sequence.

 

[A..dam]

Thank d8veh again.
As you see I have a dongle for the brakes.
The simple brake lever eletromechanical switch (2 connectors) works as you have described.
It shorts +5 to 0V. It still works
As for HWBS.
I did testing multiple times with HWBS mounted on bike AND with spare HWBS I have operated manually by moving extra steel cable in the housing.
Motor is off AND the LED is not lit at all (you have mentioned that it should lit when brake function is engaged)
I think this points to the "signal wire" as a culprit.
I have tested connectors and HWBS gets +5V on its red, 0V on yellow wire. That is OK
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the blue wire on my HWBS gets +4.25V.
Measuring what YOUR sensor gets on blue wire would solve the mystery.
I think that one of the wires from that extra connector you see on the left (2 wires, blue and black) is the proper wire to be connected to my HWBS.
Cheers, A..dam

 

[d8veh]

I already said it. With the HWBS not connected, you should get 5v between red and black, and 5v between yellow and black, where yellow is the signal wire. The 5v on the signal comes through a high value resistor, so you would probably see a bit lower on your meter depending on how much current it takes. When you connect the HWBS, it should stay the same until you operate the brake, which shorts the signal wire to ground, so pulls it down to zero volts.

 

[ulrichw]

Fwiw, I had exactly the same issue - HWBS light continue lit when connected to S06p controller.

I swapped the blue and yellow pins on thee connector, and the led now correctly turns on and off, and interrupts the motor when the brake is activated.

I believe the blue/black connector is related to the cruise control. I left it disconnected.

I need to tidy up my cabling and will test ride later today.

 

[A..dam]

@urlichw
I would appreciate if you can list connections between your controller and sensor
using a color coded wires in the following format
HWBS Controller
Red =
Yellow =
Blue =

BTW what is your system configuration?

My (yours?) original factory configuration was (and LED was lit at all times)
HWBS Controller
Red = red +4.25V
Yellow = yellow + 5V
Blue = black 0V

I have changed it now to (and LED is not lit at all times)

HWBS Controller
Red = yellow + 5V
Yellow = black 0V
Blue = red +4.25V

 

[ulrichw]

Hi A..dam

I simply swapped the yellow and blue pins on the connector attached to the HWBS, so I believe I ended up with the red/blue connectors reversed from what you have.

The connections are:

HWBS      Controller
--------------------
Red       Red
Blue      Yellow
Yellow    Black

I'll try to take a picture later today (I have the version of the controller that's integrated into the bottle battery mount, so it's a little hard to see the connector).

 

[A..dam]

Thanks everyone!
I just tried the connections and IT WORKS. (I swapped yellow and black wires on the controllers' side)
Apparently +4.25V is enough to power HWBS.

Next on my agenda is to figure out P & C parameters for my Q75 201 rpm with S06P and LCD-5 and PAS.
My goal is to have dual use of the bike: a. throttle only and b. PAS only
For starters, C1, C2 are perplexing...

If you, Ulrich, have similar system let me know, here (but at different thread), or sent message to: tatapiernik(at)gmail
Cheers, A..dam

 

[ulrichw]

I intend to post a separate thread on my build - it is indeed similar. (Q100/328rpm front wheel, 10Ah 36V bottle battery, LCD 3 display - my intention is to use it only in PAS mode). My shakeout ride went great - rode 30 miles (48km) in 1:19 - note that I was providing a significant amount of power myself.