Bonanza "Bulldozer" Dual PhaseRunner AWD

Here is a link to the 11" Tool Cases:

http://www.harborfreight.com/11-1-2...ch-x-4-1-2-half-inch-aluminum-case-36870.html

Each can accomodate 8 Headway 16AH Cells in the available plastic mounting blocks, etc. There is some room for BMS gear and connectors while not being too large.

I'm thinking that a nylon cover for these cases would be a good way to make them more waterproof and keep the dust/mud away from the case. The cover can be rinsed off more easily than cleaning the tool case itself. Plus it would look more like a bike pannier...
 
Alan look under (Evoforce bike build 1) In the same E-bike photos and video thread. See the cases that were used there. Very similar to what you are looking at. The case that I put my battery in is 15" long outside dimension.View attachment 1P1010132_renamed_23066.jpg. Good luck on your build! How do you make a link to a subject? I have my bms and stuff in one side and the controller and stuff in the other side with the battery in the middle case. The two outside cases I have a strap attached at the back that only allows the outer cases to open part way if that is what I want. the reason for this is two fold. One, is so when you are riding it, the controller can stay cooler. Two, is for when you are charging your battery, you can give the BMS some cooling with it's case open. What I would do differently would be to swap the BMS to the left hand side of the case and the controller to the right side case. Reason being, alot of nice well meaning people think something is going to fall out of my case when riding because it is open to the street side when I ride to keep the controller cool. On the right side of the bike it would have been less noticable to drivers. I bought my cases at Fry Electronics.
 
Thanks for the photos Evoforce. Very similar look to the cases I'm looking at, though the ones I'm looking at are much smaller.

Make links by putting the http string inside the url quotations. Use the url button in the editor. Similar to images.

I am also thinking about putting the BMS boards into the battery boxes. Probably not the controller. So I would have to open them for cooling only when charging. Not on the bike, in general, and not in motion.

I ordered production quantities of Headways so I'll have more than 16 to work with. I'll have to collect another one of those cases or empty one of the ones that I already have. Probably should get a couple more.

Have to decide where to mount the controller. It should be very close to the batteries and motor. I also need to decide where to mount the batteries, though these boxes do lend themselves to the rear rack, on each side down low, like low mounted panniers. Or forward somewhere alongside the triangle or on the downtube but that looks a bit weird. They are not going to be very heavy (about 9 lbs ea) so putting them on the rear low probably would be okay. One thing about that is the battery and motor cables may be very short indeed.

Maybe I should put the controller behind/under the seat and move tools/etc to a small triangle bag at the front of the triangle. Or at the front of the rack near the seatpost. Keep those wires really short. Paint it black if it is not already. We'll have to play it by ear when we have more of the parts.

I received notice that a 31 pound box was setup for shipping with UPS today, so my motor kit may be in the brown truck now... Ground ship, so a week to get here, and I'll probably be on travel when it arrives. So no fun till late in the month. This month's calendar is crazier than usual...
 
If you look at (Evoforce bike build 2) it sounds similar to what you want to do. I found these cooler cases at Walmart. The batteries are mounted low at the rear axle.Thanks for the url tip, I'll have to try it !
 
Can't really contribute much, but I had to register and comment as this thread alone has been very compelling and informative. I had been thinking about an ebike for a little while, and this build has finally given me enough information to get my head around most of the issues, as well as resembling something I could use for bombing around the peaceful island of Martha's Vineyard. Thank you for that! Now I just need an old Trek to hack.

One question though: why are most people (seemingly) against putting the battery(ies) on a front mounted rack? It would seem to create an even weight distribution with a heavy rear motor, and still allow for cargo on a rear rack (re: groceries) that are on a bike a smaller percentage of the total time ridden. Just seems like having everything over the rear wheel, including most of the riders weight, is a good recipe for short wheel life.

PS: what does this mean 16/12s. I get all the other jargon, but can't seem to figure that one out...
 
Welcome to the forum snajczuk and thanks for the positive feedback. I try to make a thread that has value for others, and the responses from the forum have been quite helpful.

When talking about battery packs the "S" and "P" shorthand is for series and parallel cells. So your 12V car battery is 6S, or 6S1P since it has six cells in series. Generally the "S" part is first and the "P" part is last, but some mix that up. I think it originally comes from the RC folks.

Balancing the weight by putting it on the front is something I've seen occasionally, but some have said that handling is poor. I don't think the front of a bicycle is well set up to handle much weight. But it will work and is certainly worth trying. Central mounting in the triangle is quite popular, and a few put it on the handlebars or around the head bearing.

I still have a few issues to work through, but things are starting to line up. I need to decide how I'm going to handle battery management including low voltage cutout and charging/balancing. Those things I know something about, so I haven't been asking much about them, but have been doing a lot of reading here on the forum and elsewhere. I have a couple of balancing RC type chargers so I can use them to start but they will not be fast enough for serious use.

Today I was thinking about battery configuration. I picked up a couple of those 11" harbor freight cases (linked above) which are just about right for 8 of the 16AH Headway cells.

I am torn between configuring my two battery packs as 24 volts (8S) or two independent 12 volt (4S) subsystems in each pack/case. I'm leaning toward 12V blocks but it does increase the number of connectors and battery management boards.

So if I go with 12 volt then the battery boxes (two each) will each have 8 cells set up as two separate sets of 4S1P. There will be two 4S battery management boards in each box, and two 50 Amp Anderson connectors. The wiring on the bike would series them up for 24V on each side giving the total 48V. I could also get 36V by skipping one set of 12V which might be good for learning and the inevitable "let me try it".

Charging is another challenge. I could use four RC chargers, but I want charging at work and home, and 8 RC chargers is getting quite $$$. I've been thinking about using a 14.8V charging bulk supply and charging the half-packs in parallel from that. The BMS can be designed to handle that.

But it would be easier to buy something so in the end we'll have to trade off what can be purchased with what I might build.

Evoforce - those coolers look very stealth. Nice.
 
Thanks Alan, and I think the soft sided coolers cost me a whole $5 each. The angled metal supporting the batteries at the axle was some scrap I had around. And to snajczuk...If you put on a really good front suspension fork like a marzocchi for example, and divided up your battery location or used lighter type batteries, and lastly had pulled back style handlebars (apehangers) to keep body weight off front forks, I'd say go for it. And then there are others who carry quite a load on their front end but maybe just not at the fast speed you may want to go.
 
Been looking at CellLog8's. Several threads mention them. Looks like a good way to do low voltage cutout (LVC) to start with, and to learn what the cells are doing. Here's a review:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=12815

HobbyCity has them as well as ProgressiveRC.

http://www.progressiverc.com/index....category_id=12&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

Here are the connectors at Digikey:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=455-2217-ND

Unfortunately they don't seem to come with the needed cabling. Some use cables from ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270470253072&ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1123

I'm not sure if those ring lugs are the right size for Headway cells. The extra bullet wires can be cut off, they are not needed for the CellLog.

Two CellLogs will be required, one for each 8S battery case. To combine the outputs and drive the ebrake input will require two opto isolators but it is pretty simple.
 
UPS says the wheel kit will arrive Monday while I am away. Oh well.

The second batch of Headway cells should arrive this week, so I will have enough of those to start on.

The Meanwell power supplies are very popular for charging. Search ebay for Meanwell 350 to get the 350 watt variety that seems to be very popular and low priced. There is a Meanwell modding thread here on ES:

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?uid=17277&f=14&t=4125&start=0

They have a 12 volt 29 amp unit in this line that is the lowest cost of any at that power level, and they also have units at 15, 24, 27, 36 and 48 volts. These are supplies, not chargers, so something is needed to control and balance to safely charge the lithium batteries.

The RC charger I have to start with is a Cellpro 10S. It is capable of about 250 watts output at 8S and requires about 320 watts of 12 volt power input. So this would consume pretty much all the power that a Meanwell 12V 29A 350W supply would put out. It should be able to charge an 8S Headway 16AH pack in 2 hours or so. At least in 2 hours the pack should be close to full, the last part of the charge can take a long time to complete.

The other way to possibly charge the Headways is to use a 12 volt automotive charger together with a control and balancing circuit. The voltage output from a 12V automotive charger is just about right, but balancing and cutoff need to be added to the system.
 
Alan B said:
The first 8 pack is made up. Fits nicely in the harbor freight case (linked earlier).
Click to expand...
Bravo. And I notice you're compiling quite a few useful links (breadcrumbs?) for like-minded seekers... Good on ya.

But I wonder, should this thread be renamed, or another started: building a commuter build.... :lol:

Congrats!
 
Alan B said:
I thought I'd start a build thread when I got the motor in. And link them together.

But I'm open to suggestions. Better rename or start another thread?
Click to expand...
No, just teasing you... Do it when it feels right! Just happy for you, and enjoy progress... :D
 
The wife told me she doesn't mind me building the ebike but she doesn't want me commuting to work on it (now she tells me). I told her then I'll have to buy an electric motorcycle. She thinks that is safer than the bicycle. Maybe that'll be my next project. First I need to finish a few other projects, however.

What do you all think?? Commuting safer on e-bike or e-motorcycle??
 
Depends. Would you be riding in traffic with the bicycle the whole way, or taking roads or paths that allow you to stay away from all the big killer boxes on wheels? ;) With a motorcycle you won't have any choice about that, and will have to ride in traffic the whole way (unless you have an alternate path using side roads that doesn't include bike paths/etc.).

The MC might be safer while in traffic if it is capable of MC-level acceleration and speeds, which the bicycle probably would not be allowed to have (although you could build it to do that :)), but it's still a lot smaller than the cars and trucks you'd be sharing the road with, and not very much less likely to get squished in situations where a driver is not paying attention. :(
 
Alan B said:
What do you all think?? Commuting safer on e-bike or e-motorcycle??
Click to expand...
is it the biking part or the e-biking part she's concerned about? just let her watch some of my vids to put her mind at rest, lol...

heck, go for the e-motorcycle then! i wouldn't feel safe at my speeds on less than a stout mountain bike frame, and most of the components weren't built for the speed and abuse... i think there is something to be said for something designed for it's purpose, rather than retro-fitted... but motorcycles are faster, and safer? who knows.
 
There are women who don't want men to ride motorcycles either but I had an instance where I got a motorcycle and after not too long she got her own too! Maybe it will work that way for your ebike, before long she will have her own too! Women are generally not into what is perceived risk taking. Everyday when she climbes into her car she is risking her life. It's just not perceived that way. When she sees how much fun you have, and maybe you can help by planning good routes, she may loosen her position. It is natural to say "No" out of fear based on the unknown. Come up with a mountain of positives for her.
 
She used to ride as a passenger on my Honda CX500 but she is not inclined to ride herself. I bought her a bicycle a couple of times over the years but they died of neglect. Who knows, we'll just have to see. I'd like to do an electric folder and on camping trips she might use that. My current project here is too large a frame for her to ride but the folders are so adjustable it should fit her too. A nice folder with a stealthy gear drive hub would be a lot of fun. But one bike project at a time.

For some really exciting e-bike videos see GCinDC's thread here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14842

It is amazing to see how he glides through traffic.
 
course if they don't allow an electric bike, does it matter if it is turned off?????
Alan B
Click to expand...

With your 9C No one will know it is electric unless you ride like cg in DC :roll: If you ride like he does of course you will be noticed. If you pedal, even faux pedal, and don't go more than 20MPH in the park no one will think you are electric.

Making an ebike first will be good practice for making am E motorcycle, just mistakes will be cheaper I would assume. Maybe if you take her out to the park your wife will enjoy the Ebike as well? I find that those who try it (Ebike) love it.
 
Don't let other people make your decisions about methods of transportation for you.

Ebike makes more sense than emoto in a boat-load of ways that I don't need to tell a smart guy like yourself.

Explain to your wife that's how its going to be, and that her misconceptions don't effect the reality of things.
 
IMHO, if you plan to act like a motor vehicle, ie move with traffic, in travel lanes and at higher traffic speeds, then emoto makes sense to me. Sturdier components and probably a good deal more comfortable. Possibly safer at any given speed above maybe 30mph, but the temptation to go faster /may/ negate that. If you want to be a bike with relatively low-speed assist and you can travel bikeways, the choice seems equally obvious to me. If you want to be somewhere in between (which many of us are) then I haven't helped you much.

The thing that scares me about many ebikers who want to travel in/with traffic is the resistance to brake lights and turn signals. You'll hear the constant refrain of "everybody is too busy texting" or "if you want to trust your life to some blinky lights..." or "you should never trust anybody" but I figure if the guy who's behind me (the only guy who really matters) gets just a little warning that I might be slowing down, turning or changing lanes, he /might/ respond appropriately. If you don't give him that warning and you can't magically change his trajectory or increase the distance between you and him then you really are a trusting fool.

I am firmly in the low speed assist category. My average speed is 13.8mph. I ride in the breakdown lane with blinking front and rear lights and wear a reflective yellow vest and a helmet - jd
 
You give me an interesting idea. I had one of those variable blink rate rear brake lights on my motorcycle. I wonder if it would make sense to set up the rear blinky light to get more frantic when the brakes are on? However I don't think cars running into the rear of ebikes are the main threat.

More likely turning left into your path, pulling in front of you from driveway or side street, opening doors into your path are the greater issue.

Keeping the speed down should be a big help. Travelling at speeds expected of a bicycle.

The commute route I like to take is windy hilly through a park. Cars have difficulty getting by.
 
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