bunk? 30Q/141 cycle test

[goatman]

got the battery from a vape shop, the battery came out of the box at 4.169v, i charged a couple times at 0.5amps/0.10 c/o and it settled at 4.181v.*** have to wonder why and how long it was sitting fully charged for on their shelf?***

the positive end was too small for my 10mm magnets so im using 1/4inch magnets

im not using plasti dip so i doubled up the magnet incase the box gets bumped

 

[goatman]

4.2v to 2.5v/0.6amp discharge capacity test

#1-3096mah, start temp 73f, end temp 79f

 

[goatman]

2amp charge 0.10c/o

 

[goatman]

setting discharge by temp

10amp to 3.609v=505mah/97f

7.5amp to 3.568v=512mah/102f

5amp to 3.3v= 1063mah/99f

2.5amp to 3.2v= 338mah/92f

charged back up, 2376mah

ill start test with these settings

had to change the 10amp cut off to 3.62v because of volt sag, im thinking i was sold a bunk battery from the vape shop, it never should have been 4.169v out of the box and after charging it should settle to 4.191v, not 4.181v but ill let it cycle for now.

heres what the 10amp curve should look like, and look at the temperature difference, at 3.6v my battery was 102f/38.8celcius

 

[goatman]

cycle test started

#1 d-2403, screw it, im taking this battery back to the store and see wtf

 

[goatman]

checking mah at 4.05v. 109mah

at 0.6 amp discharge to 3.198v the mah was 2702mah

 

[goatman]

so i took the battery back but on the way i stopped at another vape store and bought a 30Q. call it store #73
they pre-charge the batteries so i asked him to show the voltage, they had something like a xtar? 5 cell tester. 4.19v so i bought it

went to store #137 to try and get an exchange, no problem, he put it on his xtar. 4.19v. perfect :thumb:

heres the problem, batteries are labeled.

take stickers off, they look the same

the #73 store has what looks like the positive button dent in the negative end?

Dmm reading

dmm reading

tester reading

tester reading

the tester wont charge at 0.50 amps, neither battery will take a charge

10amp discharge

10amp discharge

#73 charge, volt dropped to 4.133

emailed my battery guy to see if he has any 30Q left, i know his cells are genuine and make sure my tester isnt screwed

battery guy is out of 30Q so i tested my 40T and result is here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=106550&p=1582138#p1582138

went to another vape shop got this one #72 paper label

it has a lighter shade of pink and the white insulator is different, its the one on the left

 

[goatman]

looks like i found a real 30Q

heres the charge, battery settled to 4.191v

10 amp discharge curve

battery temp peaked at 100f

ill start a new post for the cycle test but heres the differences you can see, #72 is good

i leveled the negative ends

heres the positive ends

also, the 10mm magnets pull off the positive button of the bunk 30Q and go to the negative outer ring, lots of metal? but the good 30Q, the 10mm magnets stay put on the positive button

pulled the wrappers off both bunk batteries they have the same code on them

gohz
nndc1
r3e1

the white rings are like a tape and stick on

 

[goatman]

to decipher code go to samsung 30q data sheet, page 16

https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_30Q.pdf

i took a picture of text

gohz
nndc1
r3e1

is it me or is the code not a samsung code?

 

[Hillhater]

What is your conclusion ?
The only thing i learned from this is that some Vape shops precharge the cells before sale .
A logical and obvious thing to do considering their typical customers.

 

[goatman]

What is your conclusion ?
The only thing i learned from this is that some Vape shops precharge the cells before sale .
A logical and obvious thing to do considering their typical customers.

whats with the code not matching and the 10amp curve

does anyone know what that code means?

seems like a fake cell doesnt it?

 

[Dak77]

It just seems odd that a rip off operation wouldn't follow the usual format of Samsung SDI labeling, but would bother to print under the wrapper at all.

 

[goatman]

thats what i mean, the lettering on the wrapper looks just like a normal 30Q but its not a samsung code on the can, the wrapper is wrong color and the white insulator is different, it doesnt discharge like a 30Q, its like they wrapped some other battery with a 30Q wrapper,
ill open the wrapper on what i think is a 30Q and see the code it has in the morning, its cycling right now.

i pulled the wrapper off a 25r i have, heres the code on the can ( code on wrapper, 5 2e73)

j5e7
47152
l7d8

pulled the wrapper off a 40T, its different (code on wrapper 2i61)

m0i6
465c1
d8
w16

 

[goatman]

the #72/30Q battery code on the can

L0J5
65281
n2f8 plus 3 more
w16
b04
co4

 

[eMark]

It just seems odd that a rip off operation wouldn't follow the usual format of Samsung SDI labeling, but would bother to print under the wrapper at all.

My fifty 30Q 141 cells purchased from IMR last November had the same coding info printed on the metal can in the same location under the wrap as your 30Q 141 cell. There were four different codes at the top of my 50 cells which i assume were four different production runs (e.g. your L0J5 code).

FWIW my 10S3P experimental 30Q 141 pack is doing great with over 150 charge/discharge cycles. Showing no signs of self-discharge, but then i use my 10S3P so often, and with TLC it doesn't have time to self-discharge

Prefer bottom balancing the p-groups before bulk charging to 4.1V/p-group with imbalance among the 10 p-groups no greater than 9-12mV at top (4.1V/p-group). Have come to the conclusion that bottom balancing (wait at least 60 min. after discharge) is better than balance charging or top BMS discharge balancing. I use 2 different instruments to compare individual p-group voltages: Inexpensive Innova 3320 multimeter and inexpensive mini LED DC Voltmeter. They are both more accurate than either of my two balance charger's p-group digital voltage readouts. Thus no advantage to balance charge through the entire 0.5C charge cycle to 4.1V/p-group.

Have devised two techniques whether using a bottom charge (or discharge) to balance which ever p-group i decide needs to be discharged or charged to bring them all inline. At first i was just using a discharge method, but now use only bottom charge technique using my balance charger set at 1S (with special Y balance lead) until all two 5S p-groups have nearly same voltage before bulk charging the two split 5S p-groups (using 5S Y joining balance lead) to 4.1V with my balance charger set on 5S straight "charge" (not balance charge) to 4.1V/p-group.

Have yet to see any advantage to top balance as i decided long ago not to use a BMS for this experimental pack. Any 18650 battery pack's p-groups are always more unbalanced after discharge (e.g. 3C-5C) than they ever are from charging (e.g. 0.5C-1.0C) ... thus the advantage to bottom charge balance over that of a BMS top discharge balancing. However, in order to bottom balance charge my 10S3P pack it has to be configured so it can be split into two 5S3P packs with a Y balance lead to connect to my old reliable Lipo/LiIo 6S Balance Charger with individual voltage readouts of the p-groups. So far the two 3P-groups of the split 5S always show the same p-group voltages (e.g. 1S, 2S,3S,4S, 5S) after discharge, during any bottom charge balancing and after bulk charging to 4.1V/p-group (within 9mV-12mV). Then remove Y balance leads and reconnect into a 10S3P pack and ready to go etriking again :thumb:

DISCLAIMER: I do not smoke and try to keep at least 6-10' away from those that do ... :wink:

 

[999zip999]

There just happens to be a lot of counterfeit out there. I got two 25rb that were junk. I do not vape but I smoke two when I get up and smoke two more by noon.

 

[eMark]

My fifty 30Q 141 cells purchased from IMR last November had the same coding info printed on the metal can in the same location under the wrap as your 30Q 141 cell.

Your probably thinking "how stupid to remove the wrap from all fifty of his Samsung 30Q 141 cells" (and rightly so).

to decipher code go to samsung 30q data sheet, page 16
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_30Q.pdf
i took a picture of text

"https://i.imgur.com/W3P2buh.jpg"

I used both the Vruzend V1.6 and V2.1 kits for assembling three different 30Q 141 packs. My Samsung 30Q 141 10S3P Vruzend pack is with the V2.1 kit. Both Vruzend kits are purposely designed so that 18650 cells would fit very tight in the end caps. Such that they could be damaged when at some later date one decides to remove some or all the cells from the end caps for testing, replacing, another use, etc. Sooo, I removed all 50 of the wraps and even then the cells were still very snug in the end caps (used extra barrel bolts). Now the cells will be easier to remove for any future testing and/or for another use. If i hadn't removed the wraps it's possible some of the cells would have been damaged when trying to remove them from the end caps. The reason I chose the Vruzend kits is for experimental DIY use for ease of connections, balance testing, future replacement, etc.

As you found out (or already knew) there is a protective vinyl-like washer on the positive cathode end to prevent a direct short as the entire can is negative (anode) including its top circumference. The Vruzend V1.6 & V2.1 end caps are designed so that its inner surface contacts just the center area of the positive cathode. Still included the vinyl washer in the positive end cap as extra protection.

No idea how to interrupt those codes. At one time I thought the IEA2 code was a more specific production run code. I had asked IMR not to send me all 50 cells from the same production run (if possible). I'm now thinking that both L0J4 44812 and IEA2 is primary production run code, but no idea of the significance of IEA2 and the other three similar location codes on my 50 cells. Possibly, indicating a different run date?

 

[eMark]

My fifty 30Q 141 cells purchased from IMR last November had the same coding info printed on the metal can in the same location under the wrap as your 30Q 141 cell.

Your probably thinking "how stupid to remove the wrap from all fifty of his Samsung 30Q 141 cells" (and rightly so).

to decipher code go to samsung 30q data sheet, page 16
https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/samsung_30Q.pdf
i took a picture of text

"https://i.imgur.com/W3P2buh.jpg"

I used both the Vruzend V1.6 and V2.1 kits for assembling three different 30Q 141 packs. My Samsung 30Q 141 10S3P pack is with the V2.1 kit. Both Vruzend kits are purposely designed so that 18650 cells would fit very tight in the end caps. Such that they could be damaged when at some later date one decides to remove some or all the cells from the end caps for testing, replacing, etc. Sooo, I removed all 50 of the wraps and even then the cells were still very snug in the end caps (used extra barrel bolts). Now the cells will be easier to remove for any future testing and/or for another use. If i hadn't removed the wraps it's possible some of the cells would have been damaged when trying to remove them from the end caps. The reason I chose the Vruzend kits is for experimental DIY use for ease of future replacement, testing, etc.

As you found out (or already knew) there is a protective vinyl-like washer on the positive end to prevent a direct short as the entire can is negative including its top circumference. The Vruzend V1.6 & V2.1 end caps are designed so that its inner surface contacts just the center area of the positive cathode. Still included the vinyl washer in the positive end cap as extra protection.

No idea how to interrupt those codes. At one time I thought the IEA2 code was a more specific production run code. I had asked IMR not to send me all 50 cells from the same production run (if possible). I'm now thinking that both L0J4 44812 and IEA2 is primary production run code, but no idea of the significance of IEA2 and the other three similar location codes on my 50 cells. Possibly, indicating a different run date?

 

[goatman]

l0j4
L is cylinder line 9
0 is final # of models name
J is 2019
4 is April

4481 or 4481?
4 is No #4 coater,
481 is batch #, your missing fifth digit? or 48 is batch # and last digit 1 is serial of assembly, i dont know

IEA2,
i is 18th day
e i dont know
a is A reel
2 is #2 winder

 

[eMark]

Apparently aimed at women e-cig vapers (pink box/pink label) ... https://i.imgur.com/FGB3Hn9.jpg
(real men don't e-cig vape) ... real reason why i removed the pink wraps on all my fifty 30Qs ... :wink:

IMR 30Q 141 labels now read (apparently added later) ...

WARNING! FIRE HAZARD.
NEVER CARRY IN POCKET (purse :wink: )
NOT FOR E-CIG OR VAPE

https://www.imrbatteries.com/samsung-30q-18650-3000mah-15a-battery/

China only counterfeits the most desirable Samsung cells (e.g. 25R, 30Q, 29E) and just as likely not the identical Ah rating.

 

[goatman]

ive noticed genuine 30Q 136/141 have a stamp on the negative end of the can and the fakes dont