cpm 90 motors

[sigimem]

I just found these motors from a relatively new company http://www.cpmotors.eu . I did not find any entry in the forum yet.
Especially the watercooled motor with 4kw continous and 4kg (cpm 90 45 4000w) and the dual motor cpm 90 smart gear with internal 2 speed gearbox might be interesting.
All these motors seem to have an integrated controller. I did not get any price yet but they they want to send me an e mail

4Kw Watercooled http://www.cpmotors.eu/fileadmin/media/downloads/datasheets/CPM90-45-4000-W_EN__12n48V_15Nm__01.pdf
smart gear http://www.cpmotors.eu/fileadmin/media/downloads/Flyer/Infoflyer-CPM90-SmartGear_EN.pdf

Unfortunately my knowledge in motors and controllers is extremly limited so for me it sounds good but that does not mean it is.
Maybe you guys can have a look at the data sheets and tell me what you think of it.

Thanks sigimem

PS:
a smaller version of the Motor (there are 6 versions) is used for the conway e rider that is not on the market yet.

 

[Miles]

PS: a smaller version of the Motor (there are 6 versions) is used for the conway e rider that is not on the market yet.

http://www.cpmotors.eu/en/applications/case-studies/case-studies/#c890

Their forthcoming axial flux motor looks to be an interesting option for motorbikes, too....

 

[Miles]

Maybe you guys can have a look at the data sheets and tell me what you think of it.

Taking the figures from the data sheet:

Torque constant (Kt) is 0.075 Nm/A
Phase to phase resistance (Rm) is 0.023 ohms
0.075 / √0.023 = 0.495
Motor constant (Km) is 0.495

For comparison, the Turnigy C80 100-180 has a Km of 0.407

So, the CPM90 is intrinsically more powerful than the Turnigy.

Difficult to compare the specific Km because the weight given for the CPM includes the controller.

 

[Thud]

Miles,
where do you get the KT for the turnigy motor?

 

[Miles]

Miles, where do you get the KT for the turnigy motor?

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=36508

If you have the velocity constant (Kv), you also have the torque constant (Kt). They are reciprocals.

If you use Nm for torque and radians/sec for rotational velocity, then:
Kt = 1/Kv

To use rpm for rotational velocity:
Kt = 9.54929/Kv

 

[Thud]

thank you.

 

[grindz145]

Wow, that's pretty trick..

 

[E-racer]

SO KOOL! I wonder how much they would be for a production application.

 

[sigimem]

Do you think the build in Mosfet Controller is a good thing?

I got an answer on my e-mail asking te prices for the 4000 W watercoolde and the twin 2 speed motor. According to that they cannot deliever these motors now (and did not tell anything about the price) because they are developing an new evolution stage!?
They did tell me the prices for smaller ones a 2000 W version and a 3000 W wich are 480€ and 580€ up to 50 pieces.

So it doesn´t seem so interesting anymore. Maybe I´ll ask for the prices of the other two modells again.

 

[spkpn]

So it doesn´t seem so interesting anymore. Maybe I´ll ask for the prices of the other two modells again.

actually, I think that the prices for these motors including controllers (both automotive grade products) to be very interesting^^. Thez look like a high quality and very efficient drivetrain imho. However, If they offered a build in (Chain-driven) CVT instead of a 2 gears system I would be even more enthusiastic

 

[DolphLundgren]

Is that a CPM 90?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/110958222721?nma=true&si=N1PFjTnXde2PiKmu%2BZg5nBzkH8s%3D&rt=nc&_trksid=p4340.l2557&orig_cvip=true

 

[sigimem]

I does look different then their motors on their site so maybe it is a other series then the cpm 90.

 

[crossbreak]

It's the same motor. It's just a different housing. These low induction motors are available with both water and air cooling.

 

[spinningmagnets]

The motor that the German off-road FS / DH bike uses is the "CPM90-22-1000 A" motor.

Since these motors are available with liquid-cooling, I think they must be inrunners? (hot stator coils attached to the shell). Here is the best pic I could find of the internals:

edit: based on some other pics, it does look like an outrunner (thanks crossbreak). The shiney metal bits shown here must be the stator teeth, and the coils appear to be potted in a thermally conducting epoxy.

 

[crossbreak]

they are definitely outrunners with build in controller. Just look at the stator Already got one in hands, the company had a stand at mobilitec 2010. Tried to get a free sample, but they denied They are bit like the Turnigy 8085, but with quite short stators to keep the heat path to the heatsink short. These motors have very low induction. CPM solved the controller issues. These motors are used in the E-Spire for example. They cannot be bought separately. There is a lot going on here in good old germany

The three "wires" you can see in the pic are the phase wires/bars. The pic shows the motor with removed controller PCB. If I remember right, the controller uses only 6 FETs. The controller uses a "true" sinus wave form, the motors run really quiet. The FETs are facing the black motor backplate and sharing the heat sink. The heatsink is connected to the black backplate. There are 2 verions of the black packplate, one is liquid cooled, one is solid and made for finned motor housings (the air cooled versions). The backplate is connected to the vehicles frame, using it as an additional heatsink for all of the 1.5kw+ air cooled motors.

All models are basically the same, they just differ in stator length, wind and cooling. Winds available are ranging from about 75KV to about 145KV, all stated in the datasheets on their website.

 

[crossbreak]

The motor that the German off-road FS / DH bike uses is the "CPM90-22-1000 A" motor.

Which DH bike? there are a lot around here :?

 

[spinningmagnets]

Sorry, I should have put that in my first post. It is the "Conway E-Rider". It must be spinning fast, because it is using a triple reduction to the bottom bracket.

 

[sigimem]

Yes ist spins fast. I drove it on the Intermot 2012. It is also rather noisy and does not sound smooth when accelerating more like a mixer.
It could have more power but handles very nice due to 25kg or so. However I am still interested in these motors hope someone is willing to test them

 

[gwhy!1]

2 of companies that I am working for have both approached this company about their motors and the prices that they were quoted for the 3kw motors were around 1.5k euro's ( trade ) and also did not really seem to be interested in really selling them, we also found that a rep at a show passed on some info that we told him in confidence to a rival bike manufacture. This was around 6 months ago so things may have changed.

 

[crossbreak]

Yes ist spins fast. I drove it on the Intermot 2012. It is also rather noisy and does not sound smooth when accelerating more like a mixer.
It could have more power but handles very nice due to 25kg or so. However I am still interested in these motors hope someone is willing to test them

saw it there too on saturday. sadly the company guy wasn't there then, could not ride it

posted some pics in the motorcycle area about this bike: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=44568&p=685085&hilit=+Intermot#p685083

 

[renago]

I met with them at a Bike show in Milan , the guy was not that keen in pushing the motors more then much .
cost is aprox 2000 euro for a first run , that includes motor and software to program it .
it is based on a canbus platform .
he said the major business is in the heavy truck industry , in the bike or small motorbike market he doesn't see much market .
interesting motor , but :
-way too expensive .
- too high rpm , for our application .
-the sweet point is between 3000-6000 rpm .
the do not have any in stock , they are almost made to order .
delivery time 2-3 months , depending on batch production .

I thought not for me , at least now .


Renago

 

[crossbreak]

OEM price is much lower. But I agree, they run too fast/they have not enough poles. The Conway E-rider uses it, as well as some other bikes. They run load because of the high rpm.

If I would design a Middrive, it would run at about 2500-3000rpm. Both power/weight ratio and noise seem acceptable at this level. I would also use a similar Outrunner, but a bit bigger one with 24T/20poles and 0.35mm laminations, the new Rotomax 80-150cc are perfect. They could be even cheaper if they had only 0.35mm lams and not skirt bearing, which isn't needed at our speed level. It's so sad that they have a stator design that is made for venting Makes cooling hard if enclosed.