Cyclone or GNG mid drive kit?

The v3 is great, admittedly though I've never used the v2.3.
I use a CA3-DPS on my current bike with LightningRods middrive. Both my lyen and Phaserunner controllers have a v3 connector. Everything plugs into the CA and the CA has one cable to controller. Super simple and very tidy wiring. The DPS is for a middrive with speed pickup on the wheel. The DP is for Hub motors that use their halls for speed pickup.

My old bike was a gng mid drive and used a CA3 with the external shunt to the controller (that controller didn't have the direct plug). It worked just as well but trickier wiring and more wires to hide away. It was an integral part of the controllability of that bike at 2kw.

The v3 has a lot more parameters for tuning throttle signal, detailed limits and up to 3 different modes of operation. I rode for 6 months with just a wattmeter and it was ok but until I had the CA I didn't know all I was missing. The only way I'd do a build now without a CA is if I had an adapto setup. With the limits, throttle mapping, speedometer/current/voltage/tachometer feedback and ability to monitor state of charge - I would consider it as essential as the controller itself.
 
I have used Cyclone 1680w kit now few months and it's quite noisy with full throttle.
Original 44 mid sprocket is obsolute as not enough power for more speed compared to 32 (about 45km/h in flat without pedaling). 13tooth freewheel was good improvement and bike answers better to throttle on rails. Turbobikekit with 48/48/32 and 13toot freewheel might be best option for trail use

3000w cyclone is about 3cm wider than 1680w kit and might make some issues with legs in case of pedaling without motor, at least feels stupid :shock:

I have done brackets totally different way because of Kona magic link setup

Next step is move controller under bracket and motor under the frame like in ATF kit..
 

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Apart from the lower weight (about 1kg less?) and the width of the kit, is there any other advantage of the 1680w version over the 3000w. I keep trying to convince myself to get the 1680 instead, but apparently not waterproof, is noiser than the 3000w motor and is roughly the same price on turbobikekit.

Can you say anything about the waterproof/ weatherproofness of the 1680w motor?

Your Kona looks great :wink:
 
Very good frame 33du!

Can you share with us some other pictures about the frame.
I'am building a new one from zero, Maybe you can give me some suggestion!

Speaking about water resistance, I drove my bike for about 1 km inside a small river of max 30 cm of deeper water and ride multiple times under a heavy rain, zero problem!

I only put extra insulation over the cables that cames out to the engine using hot glue and locked inside a box all the connector between the controller, the engine and the throttle.
 
That's good to hear, I will want to ride in heavy rain, I live in england after all!
But it makes deciding even harder. I cannot choose between the cyclone 1680 and 3000w kits.
I have almost decided against GNG after realizing I am likely to be charged a lot of import tax unlike the cyclones which are available in the EU.
 
Hi le15otl
I am having the same dilemma at the moment. I have been trying to decide between the cyclone or gng as with shipping and import duties the lightning rods and aft kits are too expensive. The cheapest places i have found in the uk are eclipsebikes for the 1680w cyclone and pedalease for the gng 60v chain drive. Also just to let you know about another option, gng are releasing a 2500w version soon with 25mm belts and isis bb. I think i will keep waiting for that one but Its already been 6 weeks and im getting impatient. I hope this has been some help and not made your decision even harder.
Andy.
 
le15otl said:
That's good to hear, I will want to ride in heavy rain, I live in england after all!
But it makes deciding even harder. I cannot choose between the cyclone 1680 and 3000w kits.
I have almost decided against GNG after realizing I am likely to be charged a lot of import tax unlike the cyclones which are available in the EU.
Click to expand...

I bought my kit from http://www.turbobikekit.com/ a Greek Cyclone reseller worried about import tax and shipping time, but it came directly from Taiwan.
I also bought replacement part directly from http://www.cyclone-tw.com/ and I had no tax surcharging (I hope they payed it correctly!).

Both are very fast in shipping (by airplane obviously). The only problem may came with the battery, for that the local/EU seller is preferred (there is some low about transportation of explosive materials)

Which one?
any kit you are looking can give you a lot of fun, do not think too much, just buy and enjoy it!

If you want do some savings, think about building your own battery pack using Lipo or Lifepo battery (here's the real savings!)
Look at Hobbiking with a UK warehouse BUT read a lot (endelss-shere has many posts about that), battery can easily explode if used in wrong way.
 
Andy I didn't realise any GNG were available in the UK, thanks for the info. I did read about the coming 2500w kit, and does sound good but I think it may be on the expensive side, not sure though. I hope you come to a good decision too :)

Jonnydrive that's where I think would buy the cyclone from, but he said the 3kw will ship straight from Greece. I know what you mean that any kit will be good fun, still I am looking for the best investment.

About the lipo idea that is what I have done :) have some big 6s lipo's from hobbyking which I will use in series.

Thank you for all the replies jonny
 
Dont waste your money on the new GNG gen 1 kits. out of the box they dont work at all. You need to fiddle a lot with it to get working. The new freewheeling crankset is a piece of junk. only lasted a week then it came apart... bearing and the ratchet mechanism got shot. I managed to get it reliable enough as a leisure rider bike but I don't trust it as my daily commuter. Things replaced from the stock unit is, Freewheeling chain ring to the old gng version, gng controller to an em3ev infineon controller (important part), controls like a 3 speed switch, thumb throttle and cruise control button. You gonna need a programmable controller to tame the motor down as it's unridable at stock settings at 48v. I find 20amps battery and 50 amps phase is the sweet spot for this kit (1:2.5) ratio. if you don't do this, things will start breaking down....first in the list will be the small freewheel on the other side of the jackshaft. I read reports, they fail at only 1.5kw.... this kit is not meant for high power applications as you will start breaking things early in it's life without serous modifications, might as well get a LR version to avoid all that headache . if you need to have a high power mid drive, go with a big block LR or the small block LR those are designed for high power. As for the Cyclone kit.... I would not run it at 3kw. take their advertisement with a pinch of salt... I can see this working fine at 1.5kw since it got better components on the final reduction. The gears in the planetary gear box are plastic.... you dont want to run too much power on those. Now there is a newer kit out there from bafang called the BBS-HD. it's a 1kw nominal and around 1.5kw peak. I test ridden a bike with on of these recently and I am blown away on how quiet and smoother it is on my GNG gen 1. there is also no noticeable lag with the motor since the reduction is through gears, not chains or belt. it feels more powerful than my gng at the same wattage. It's not meant for super high power as the gears are also plastic. I am replacing my 2015 gen gen 1 middrive with one of those BBS-HD units pretty soon. it's $800 from lunacycles, 2X more than the gng and cyclone, but by the time I was done with my GNG, cost me additional $150 on top of the $450 price tag initially.... but if you really want it now and only got $450-$500 get the Cyclone 3kw kit instead. so yep save your money and get a better kit is my final advice.
 
Here is a video of my bike with the GNG gen 1 with chain primary..... it is noisy as heck.....=( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZbOe0_NgOo
 
Thanks lanitce, I actually thought the freewheeling crankset was one of the good parts of the gng kit.
I am 95% sure about getting the cyclone 3kw now. It may not be as smooth as the BBS-HD and LR kits but I would rather spend less on the motor and be able to buy some massive batteries with the remaining money. The motor itself is 4.5kg so I would hope the it could cope with 3kw, but if not 1.5kw continuous is still plenty!
 
Hi lantice.
I think i will wait for gng's new 2500w kit as it comes with 25mm belts and adjustable plates similar to the lr kit and it also comes with the isis bb and dual bearing freewheel so should be much better than their older kits. I do like the idea and neatness of the bafang bbs02 and the bbs-hd but i would be concerned about bending the crank on drops and jumps offroad and dont think its possible to upgrade it to an isis crank. If it is somehow possible i would definitely consider it. Also i like cyclone kits as they offer to upgrade to an isis crank for about $50 extra but i would be worried about overheating the 1680w kit and ive only heard of 2 people using the 3kw kit so it seems a bit of an unknown.
Thanks for you advice.
Andy
 
The square tapered BB axle that gng uses is notorious for bending on big drops and aggressive riding. I personally never had any problems with mine, but i'm only like 5'4" - 120lbs and wasn't riding much real off-road (just trails)
 
Hi le15otl.
The isis bb seem much stronger and more resilient to bending than the cheaper square taper crank bb. (This is just my opinion and there may be some high quality square taper ones available somewhere.) I've seen and read about many bent square taper crank/bb when used offroad but only a couple of broken isis ones.
If you are using your bike for commuting on road or light offroad you might be fine with the square taper, but if you intend on doing bigger drops and jumps I'd recommend you go with the isis.
Hope that helps.
Andy.
 
le15otl said:
Andy why is an Isis bb so much better than normal, can you explain that please. I know it locks in better but not sure how's it's tougher?
Click to expand...

Some say they bend under extreme stress of jumping. But they can get sloppy from wear to the taper too, then your chainwheel wiggles and you can drop the chain. I've never had a problem but I'm a wuss. If you do hard drops, or stand on the pedals all the time causing wear, then tapered square spindle may bend or wear. A well made ISIS spindle is less likely to, but there have been some quality issues with them too. Make sure you get a good one.
 
When you refer to cyclone 3kW do you mean the newer one on their website: 1800-3000W kit with the 148mm BB or the older wider 1920-3000W kit with the 190mm BB. Just thought it'd be worth mentioning because a 190mm BB will be more of a hassle. I have the older cyclone with the steel gears, it's reliable but noisy...
 
I was going to get the newer one, but now I saw there is a used 1920-3000w for sale on ES for a fraction of the price so I think I'll get that.
How annoying will the 190mm BB be do you think?
 
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