"Destination Discovery" Extended Range MXUS 3000W Build

[icecube57]

Lyen Care Package.

 

[icecube57]

 

[icecube57]

 

[icecube57]

The components for the Ebike Deal Bike came in today. I took pictures of all of them.

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=3A5E1554EDF0F1AF!2499&authkey=!AC-l31zZ7Oizet8&ithint=folder%2cjpg

The website just revamped their frame section with the components and their costs so you now have an overview of the components on their site and individualized photos from me.

http://ebikedeal.com/ebike-frame/

 

[icecube57]

This project has suspended indefinitely...

 

[Lenk42602]

why?

 

[icecube57]

Problems Im having. Im going in another direction same motor and everything just a different frame.

 

[jkbrigman]

Problems Im having. Im going in another direction same motor and everything just a different frame.

Dyin to know where you take this build! You hit the "sweet spot": a long-distance bike!

 

[icecube57]

It should still have a pretty decent range but not as much as i originally planned.

 

[ohzee]

That's too bad.

I figured this build would help Max sell a few extra bikes at the least and I looked forward to the end result.

 

[Rodney64]

Why not just finish it, at least give us a decent reason why. Quite piss poor actually the way u ended it.

 

[icecube57]

The build will be shifted to a Giant Talon Frame. I plan to run a Falcon EV bag and an Additive frame bag on top. Should be able to run 24s 32ah.. Possibly more. I just encountered some issues with the frame that would steer me away from finishing the build with the original frame. I really wanted to use the frame and evaluated conventional and unconventional options to solve my issues. I just had some motor/ wheel size/ compatibility issues with the frame. I ran into an issue with my 26inch wheel to where it didn't fit the frame correctly causing bad geometry. Should run reasonably well with 24 or or less wheels and creative spacing or dishing. As with any hub motor the wheel is going to set to the left a little bit. It was just to much that me and my lbs didn't feel comfortable with. Max Kogan was very accommodating in answering my questions and concerns and offered several solutions. I just commend him on that. He has put together several bikes and has a good recipe for a successful build. This is a do it yourself hobby and you have to adapt when things throw you a curve ball. I took the easy way out and just walked myself... The dream is still alive and I have things line up to continue the build on just not with the ebike deal frame. I will comment more on the frame later. I gave you a few pros and cons and design issues I encountered.

 

[jkbrigman]

Definitely keep going, ice! You've got a really good running start at this build with some great components.

 

[icecube57]

This may get revived on the old platform. There was some serious alignment issues using the Mxus motor and a 26 inch wheel. Dropping down to a 24 inch wheel and a creative use of spacer washer and shims should get things back on track. The battery box that comes with the frame probably wont get used. Ive looked at several options on how to protect the batteries. For the 100v 16AH option a 30mm ammo box will be used. For a 100v 32AH option a 50cal can will be used. for 100v 48AH I really just need to make a thin box out of a very strong material like aluminum and then I can fit the batteries in the frame.

 

[Samd]

So much range! You'll need a good seat so your butt doesn't pass out!

I've just built an Electra cruiser for a customer with a MXUS V2 front and rear, and I like it. Only 3.5kw total over the motors but so smooth and never warm with so much stator action. It ignores hills.
You've inspired me, I'm thinking of a similar build to yours in amphour terms now, for myself for long haul runs. Was only going to go for maybe 700 watt hours before, but Multistars in the two saddle bags would carry similar electron counts.
Will be following this with interest.

 

[icecube57]

Well as you know there was a hiccup with the frame or rather a discovery. Ive been in contact with Max Kogan. My problem is his problem because if its an issue with one frame its an issue with all frames and hes been working hard to correct a design issue that affected motor alignment. It also affected disc brake alignment. This problem He has a fix that should be in my hands shortly. I believe the 150mm drop out combined with the Mxus 142mm drop out width made for bad alignment. Especially if you want to run a 7 speed freewheel. The Crystalyte 4060 has 135mm drop out and will have more left to right movement to allow you to shim it in the correct direction to align with the center line of the frame. This may not seem like much but in a 150mm drop out thats alot of room to shim it one way or another. With this info and some photos to show what has been done I have made several more purchases. I found and purchased the ammo cans that will fit the 100v 16AH and 100v 32AH packs. I also contacted a metal fabrication shop that can either make my box wider or make a totally different box similar to my ammo box that fit in my frame. Its going to cost money but the idea of this build was to have the long range so a new battery container is a must cause the stock one just wont do. I will explain my issues with the stock battery box in the next. Atleast the problems that cause an issue while running lipo.

 

[icecube57]

For normal builds the stock battery boxes will be ok for most people but for a person like me that is trying to shove the most in a frame he can the regular version of the box and the large version of the box weren't big enough for my needs.

The box was designed for use with headway cells. You can use it for other stuff but you have to be creative on how you pack the batteries. The box is constructed from several sheets of metal. For me the box went together but only with a little persuasion. The box kinda has to be loosely put together so all the screws find their holes then you have to go around to box and slowly tighten all the screws. When you do this the process will put the box in alignment. He did think to include a double sided tape along the seams where the box is joined but it doesn't do much in bonding the sides or closing the air gaps. If you want a weather poof box I advise to run you own bead of silicone around the seams of the box as you put it together.

Another pet peeve is the screws that bring it all together have some of the shaft sticking through the box so you cant just put bare lipo packs in there. You have to line the box with some material to cover the screws. They arent point or anything they just protrude around the edges of the box 1-2mm and I know that shortly overtime this could puncture a lipo cell. You can get some materials such as carpet padding and line the sides of the box. This gives the pack padding and spaces it away from the screws while protecting it from shock and vibration. This fills up dead space. It shifts the pack to the center of the box away from the screws. This can be easily achieved with some contact cement spray and lining the container with the carpet padding.

Another problem I see is if you run lipo... once the box is made and pack is in side and sealed you cant easily get access to the contents of the box. This box is clearly made for a pack that has its own bms. Meaning The only thing the box should have on it is a charge an discharge port but its not meant to be a serviceable pack. That is why Im so set on creating removable battery box. I don trust BMSs. I like to monitor my packs on every charge cycle so I can judge their performance on a cycle by cycle basis.

Another thing since the box is mean to stay on the bike the side straps that hold the box in are M8 bolts to where you need an Allen wrench to remove the straps and remove the box. Since I plan to make mines removable Im going to replace this bolts with winged head bolts so its a little bit more user friendly. I will post pictures shortly.

 

[icecube57]

This is Max's solution for my issue. A custom disc brake adapter to space out the caliper to mate with the disc brake rotor. This and the motor and extra trinkets are in the mail. I have everything at the bike shop. Waiting on the motor to see how this drops in and works out for me.

 

[ohzee]

I was curious to see that batery box up close. Looks good , but yea looks like it will require some mods for easy access.
Was wondering how much it was also. Just found it on his site.

BATTERY CASE $65.00 4.25 INCHES WIDE $90.00 5.25 INCHES WIDE

Looking good.

 

[icecube57]

Im personally using the ammo cans for 16AH and my 32AH 100v pack. Im going to get a custom box thats similar to an ammo can for my 100b 48AH box.

 

[icecube57]

Soo this is an update on everything. Im truly done with the Ebike Deal Frame. I paid the LBS an insane amount of labor to try and assemble the frame not to mention extra parts that I was told would work but never quite worked the way they should. I had already bought a Giant Revel Frame and it was sitting at the shop for my second project. I told them to focus on the Ebike Deal Frame. After all the headaches I finally said frock it and told them to assemble the 29er. They swapped out the fork for an air suspension. They swapped out brake calipers mounted my MXUS motor. Literally it was less than 2 hours I had a working rolling chassis all the gears work disc brakes front and rear work. Its the only thing that has really brought a smile to my face. I figure that while we were on a roll that we would take the 4060 and install it on an old Tidal Force Frame that I had reacquired. They got that one assembled in even less time. It goes to show if you have a good foundation everything will fall in to place.

So now I have the Giant Revel 29er Frame with MXUS 3000w 4T motor 26 inch wheels front and back. Its sitting on Schwalbe Big Apple 2.35 tires. Slime Extra thick inner tubes I have a 7 Speed Super Wide Shimano 11-34 freewheel (Rare).Front and Rear Disc Brakes.RST Air Suspension Front Fork. I have a Falcon EV bag in the frame holding 100v 16AH. I have an additive frame bag hold 100v 16AH . I have a Topeak bag on the rear rack hold 100v 16AH. So I can now officially say I have 100v 48AH battery on my frame if I want to. I have an Ebikes.CA torque arm on one side of the rear. I have a migueralliart torque arm bolted up to the rear disc brake caliper mount. Im running a cycle analyst V3. The CA is running the show from everything to throttle ramping to thermal rollback to 3 speed switch. I have the cycle lumenator up front. I have the 8 led light in the rear. Im running an 18fet Lyen controller at default setting. I plan to tweak it a bit more them a little bit once I start testing.

 

[icecube57]

Some pictures of the bike.

 

[markz]

Nice bike icecube57, good to see your mxus spokes all pointing towards the disc.

So now I have the Giant Revel 29er Frame with MXUS 3000w 4T motor 26 inch wheels front and back.

Why did you go 29er frame with 26 tire's?

 

[aaronski]

Welcome back ice. I returned myself, and recall you from 2011.

Those batteries are amazing for the price and it's. A great build. Sorry the custom frame didn't work out. Just built up a surly 29er, works like a dream. I'm going for light build though I am tempted by this beast!

 

[icecube57]

Nice bike icecube57, good to see your mxus spokes all pointing towards the disc.

So now I have the Giant Revel 29er Frame with MXUS 3000w 4T motor 26 inch wheels front and back.

Why did you go 29er frame with 26 tire's?

The wheels on the Mxus was 26 and all the gear such as tires and tubes and wheelsets i had were for 26. The only good candidate bike in the catalong was a 29er. I happened to have an air suspension front fork that was a 29er. To keep the geometry correct as long as i replaced the fork with a 29er i could use 26 inch wheels front and rear without affecting the handling.