DH dual motor = LR mid drive + Grin all-axle front hub

Hang in there John. It will be worth it when it's all done. I had those crappy chainring bolts on my aft also. Its a pain.
 
That sucks dude!
Did you customize the chainring right away?

You should probably try installing everything stock before you start trying to customize stuff.
I know stock is not your ideal, but if you've modified before you ever had anything together then you might have emayaan'd yourself...

It's the bBlock you have right? Have you used any spacers at the BB?

Everyone has the slight wiggle in the stock chainring - the freewheel is the cause. With a 219 tensioner, I don't have any problems with the wiggle.
 
I put the stock stuff given to me on. No spacers or changes.

Dont let anyone how big they are or not tell you can't share information about something that they make money on. This forum is useless if it must be censored to the benefit of vendors.

If I am going to buy a hot rod I want to read real things people have said and experienced.

[youtube]R6_H8O7HMgc[/youtube]
 
I am not sure how much a spacer would do since it about how much of the interface is actually connected internally that is the first issue to both safety and the strength. I believe the isis crank is stronger than the square only if the provided area in the crank is actually used. Half on is not acceptable.

Mostly on clears the motor shaft screw or whatever you call it and I might be able to live with it. I is actually ridable without the guard.... As long as there is no inward force in the pedal stroke somehow.

so

I then reinstalled the guard without the plastic parts that go over the screws that hold the guard from pushing into the chain. Like this I could play with the spacing further. The crank arm can be used but now motor chain starts to touch in parts.

There is less than a mm of space in this area either side and any loosening or slight bending of crank or the large sprocket shifting in out a bit could see a hit or catch.... This is where I can't predict until actually doing mods and then riding it as it is meant to be.

I believe 1 to 2 mm ground back of the crank in key points and a mm or less on key parts on the inside of the guard where the chain would catch could be a solution. Of course I need to grind back the plastic spacers that go over the screws too.

[youtube]O-R84PytEDI[/youtube]
 
This is the only kit I know that does not come with a controller as a matched pair. The problem if a kit doesn't come with a controller setup for the motor is that one simple problem like you have and you are at the whim of an external person who may not respond or even care at all as all he sold you was a controller.. not a $2000 USD kit.. if you had bought it as a whole package like most other kits then the person selling the whole kit has the responsibility to make sure everything works as a whole system ! That includes wiring.. hall sensor alignment, overheating and that also relates to warranty issues etc.. it's risky as one person can blame the other i.e motor caused the controller fault and controller caused the motor fault... they intricately work together so they should be sold together to avoid this .... but expect of course the cost to be higher as that person stocks the controller, has to set it up and takes the risk of the controller failing and these things all cost time and money.
Also doesn't this kit come with written instructions that lists all the tools you MAY need and if you need to use bottom bracket spacers ? I am pretty sure all the other high quality kits like the EGO, AFT and Ecospeed come with written instructions? If it doesn't then you can see why the initial price is lower.. when you add all these little details... that become crucial to making a whole kit work.
For someone who is a mechanical genius and has every tool in the world and BB spacers lying around maybe they don't need this stuff... as they say "buyer beware" the forums can be censored to suit forum by favourites...
 
Another option is to get bottom bracket with longer spindle. Not sure if they make those in isis. I know you can do with square taper.
 
Yes, I went much wider with my jis (square), and even trimmed and reground to suit. The new sealed cartridge was like 30$, and I'm happy.

From what I see on my shore2, it uses a big hollow bb (the hive thirteen) http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-Thirteen-Crankset-the-hive-with-Bottom-Bracket-/111440162018?hash=item19f259ece2:g:wR8AAOSwq7JT85rL
Holy smokes, I should that, the frame, and the unused rear 12mm hub?
Anyway, whatever that style bb/crank is, it uses spacers on each side to position the crank, it would seem moving one spacer to the other side might be enough.

Isis is different yet, and depending on what length you have now (73/113?), here's a 73/128 that would give a wider tread. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Truvativ-Giga-Pipe-Team-DH-68-68E-73x128mm-ISIS-BB-/371484649007?hash=item567e35e62f:g:XiwAAOSwAL9Uh2K3 Maybe that would work?
 
I have taken the route of filing the bushes / spacers a mm or 2 mm not sure but just kept doing it until the motor chain was a hair away from the inside of the guard. I now have it on as close as literally possible. If any more needs to be done if there is motor chain issue I will dremel off from the inside the actual line the pins take.

The rest is being done to my crank. I have taken a mm of most of the top part after the bend just need to take off another mm at the points which strike hex bolts heads in key places. There is a hair in here too.

Question will be while riding with rider weight on the crank will it hold or flex inwards where I will have to keep filing until it stops.

When you use a spacer on the bb top of the crank is it specifically isis? or just a hollow bit of pipe?

I am pretty sure Mike will be into making spacers after my issue, although that is not what caused the problem. I think it may be that his motors are not the same exact width as he had from before.

On another note Greentime have ignored me for a week with my question of how to create an ignition switch on his controller. I will never buy from Leo again. I do have a charger on the way from him which will leave me a way to leave the nastiest comment possible. :cry:
 
sell. . . i should sell. Missed that word in above post- moot and offtopic anyway :oops:

anyway, the hollow 'hive' uses bits of metal and plastic rings to space the cups for diff bb shells I'm guessing. The crank always has the same footprint on the bb ends, the cups just have less or more threads engaged in the shell based on shell width, which would allow shifting the tread just a little.

I haven't seen isis spacers, and a whole new wider bb is fairly cheap (40-60 + ship depending on location), so I'd just get one with a wider tread should that be a necessary route. Sounds to me like you'll get it with moving in the guard in and removing some of the crank. Don't think that will weaken the crank.

Do you have a link to the controller? I'm curious about the ignition switch, one would think it'd be easy enough.
 
nutspecial said:
Do you have a link to the controller? I'm curious about the ignition switch, one would think it'd be easy enough.
Click to expand...
plug in the bats and power is on. Usually you have to create the switch to turn it on... So I was looking for a bridge somewhere to disconnect two points but the one I tried did nothing....
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.907181486017587&type=1

EDIT
Have talked Aliexpress Staff about the matter and they have emailed him now for a response. Unfortunately I really am too impatient to wait for him for what could be a simple solution of soldering a wire to one point.

I won't lay down on this point as I think I will give up my working bike to shift lyen over to the intense. Will then have a whole heap of connectors to resolder but see no other way and this weekend for me has to be ride time.

I will pursue Leo Liu till I get the controller working or demand something done (not sure what) like a refund if he is too lazy to reply.

My complaint to aliexpress is that yes I have passed the protection period but have a product that can not be turned off, with no manual offered and with pictures on his website that don't show the product he sent me.
 
Space gets tight with the BB. I run mine without guards and even shaved a little off the crank; there is no flex, but be honest, if you're running the BB with a chain primary, pedaling isn't your highest priority.

I feel your pain, really I do but hang in there... once you get this ironed out it will all be worth it.
 
Thanks Stonezone,

I used to ride with shin / knee guards and they saved me some pain a few times, but they were dam annoying to keep repositioning and the fox ones I had little bits on them that would catch on things on the bike so ditched them.... I have thought about no guard but it already looks to be working now with it filed down. The chain rub will probably sort itself out as files the guard down slowly :lol:

I will follow lots of advice from you and others about sprockets after I have trialled the ones I have bought...

There won't be much riding until my charger arrives.... I really don't want to break out the 20s series to charge my 4s2ps unless cells look unbalanced.

On another note I am stoked that the battery box where it is does not bother the inside of my legs, I was worried about that before putting on the pedals.
The width of the bb took care of that.

Forgot to include my last video on this thread - I had posted it on LR thread ....

[youtube]fQOeBg_yeiI[/youtube]
 
Set backs continue
[youtube]Git1_-ppQTQ[/youtube]
Did another on road test after tidying up wiring and the pedals jammed, found a grub screw from the kit jammed in the 219 chain and sprocket. Took it all off and then



I tried 20t single speed up my mountain trail, but its too much for the drive train. Keeps clacking from down near the rear wheel.

This morning I have now shifted over the sprocket to what I think is the absolutely straightest possible. (thought it was before but maybe a mm better) will go for a quick test ride now before work and running out of battery juice...

EDIT

Got back from my ride WOW, the chain line has definately improved but not stopped the clack. The throttle is ridiculously twitchy to try to control at half twist which is around 1.5kw-2.5kw mark. Trying to maintain it around 1.5kw saw no clacking from the back. I felt like I was going about 20kmh up this mountain... I did the first half of it which usually sees my hub motor reaching 90 degrees celcius mark if I am riding at similar speeds.

The motor did not go over 32 degrees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! about 12 degrees over ambient!!!!!!!!!! Love the motor! however the controller was definately heated up I would say somewhere between too hot to hold and ambient. So here is another thanks to Leo Liu from greentime with the 24 fet I had planned screwing up my project.

This lyen is programmable but I don't have the wires or programme now that my mate Newb has let town...

I reckon 40 amps is all this bike would probably ever need at this voltage. It should see a much easier throttle position too. I think I will push the lyen as hard as my rear sprocket can handle, if it fails so be it....

I reckon a custom tensioner for the rear sprocket might solve my clack if I can more chain wrap around the bottom forward quarter of the sprocket...

roller coaster build with my emotions from :cry: to :mrgreen:

Coming down the mountain on the M6 of course required no epower at all and is absolutely fantastic to ride.
 
thanks for a all the vids just waiting for parts from LR then I will start my build. How about a vid of you passing by the camera on the bike a couple of times so we can see the bike in action.
 
Torque and lack of heat is insane.

There's enough torque on this to kill the drive train in a full twist from standstill and flip me on my back, haven't done it but it is obvious from experience.

I have put on a very average torque brace on this thing, because it has to go low behind all the chains it has to be quite thin, and I did the stupid thing of cutting the perfect length before doing the holes and then the one of the holes is too close to the end so not really enough meat but it is on the side that doesn't matter when concerned with which way the motor wants to twist... Will make another one if this looks like an issue.

Have spent the whole morning trying to work out ideal CA settings and finally got the settings working right under

WOT, What have you found the smoothest gain settings for amp power limiting? I want to ride this wide open throttle as I find that much more comfortable to control the bike in very rough terrain. Half twist is like if you make a small twist backward on the bike from hitting a bump or whatever I can see 5kw dumped suddenly into the system making hard terrain almost impossible.

I've got it at 500 for now but will tweak for the next ride.

Still plenty of stuff to work to get done...
 
r3volved said:
As far as the climbing you were most worried about...told ya so :p
Click to expand...

Yeah I really didn't expect heat to be totally a non issue, to the point I should exchange the ca temperature readings for a probe in the controller!

There is no doubt this motor is a million times better than a hub on the terrain, the question is all the chains and shafts. I can't get the main reduction shaft
to stop wobbling. It was like that from the first tests with no riding or grub screw damage. If I tighten the chains it gets better but they arent meant to be that tight....

Anyway I hope it holds up to a real test ride this weekend.

The true test of everything will be the continual riding steep, which the controller will probably be the weakest link.

If I had know that this thing needed so little power I might have just stayed with 12s because it feels like I climb almost everything around 2kw.

:p

19/11 First time I tested off road I had constant clacking on uphill sections. I then shifted the sprocket to the best line I could get and I got only a couple slips (I kept the power around 2kw max. )

I then removed a link as the chain was obviously loose, and pulled apart my battery into halves charged as 12s & 8s with different charge profiles set.

This morning I went for my first what I thought long ride but as always I do my testing area first because it is extreme and almost completely down hill return to home...

The clacking sound has returned! dam , so it was a short spin not even an AH...


My chain skips only when I go up a hill or put a lot of pressure on the pedals.
The Cause of the problem:
This is a common occurrence when one component of a drive train has just been replaced or a drive train has been used so much that the chain skips over the top edge of the cog teeth.
Every time you ride you make your chain longer due to the force of pedaling. A new chain will measure exactly one chain rivet or pin for every half inch. A chain that has thousands of miles ridden on it will have pins that almost match up on every half inch mark, but by the time you get to twelve inches the twenty-fourth pin will be around twelve and one eighth inches. As a chain stretches it wears the leading edge off of the cogs and chain ring teeth. Mixing a new chain with old cogs is a problem because the new chain usually doesn't mesh with the worn gears and skipping results. (worn gears will look like shark fins or will hook slightly on the worn edge) Frequently lubricating your chain helps to keep the loose metal from worn teeth acting like sandpaper and speeding up the wear process.
Usually skipping presents itself in your favorite gear, as this is the gear that wears out the first. Other problems associated with a worn drive train are bushings coming out of the chain, bent cog or chain ring teeth, and individual teeth breaking off of cogs or chain rings. All of these problems can cause a chain to skip while under pressure.
Solutions:
The first step is to rule out that you may have a tight link. (See part one)
Once you are sure that you don't have a tight link, inspect the chain for missing bushings (the washer between the side plates) and look for missing teeth on the cogs and chain rings. Sometimes you can replace a few links in a chain to solve the missing bushing problem, but you more than likely will need a new drive train soon. For broken teeth you will probably need to replace the cogs and the chain as new cogs will skip with the old chain.
If no teeth or bushings appear defective take out a ruler and measure your chain setting up the chain pins on the half inch marks. If at twelve inches the pin is past the twelve and one eighth mark, your chain may have stretched long enough that you will need to replace the cogs and chain together and quite possibly the chain rings. Another thing to check is chain on the large chaining (at the pedals) to see how tightly the chain hugs the ring. If you can easily lift the chain off of the big chain ring, your chain has stretched and it may be time for a new drive train.
Click to expand...
from https://athenscyclepath.com/wconnchainskips2.php

EDIT hour later

got to go work now but have swapped chains to

Wippermann 7E8

Based around the 7R8 which is renowned for its durability and strength. The 7E8 is the perfect upgrade for any narrow hub gear E-bike. Also works with 7,6 and 5 speed derailleur systems.

Reinforced design and high-grade coating for maximum wear resistance.
Ideal for high-torque E-bikes, heavy touring bikes and fixies.
1/2" x 3/32", pin length: 8.8mm
Weight 430g/110 links
112 links incl spring clip
Click to expand...

Will test after work if it makes any difference. This thing only just clears my torque brace. And didn't really come to mind because I knew it doesn't work with narrow chain rings, that I have bought for the front....

EDIT

Been a big day

This is a couple of shots of some work I've been doing.

12274412_10153633894274845_4141713629377954643_n.jpg

12249915_10153633894244845_5113109667918709748_n.jpg
 
Cool John! Sounds like your getting the chain skipping figured out. So how is it handle the hills? How is speed?
 
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