Direct-Drive conversion of the new GNG/cycmotor X1-pro 3000w

[Grantmac]

So what's the reduction ratio of that box?

 

[Tommm]

6:1, same as cyclone

 

[Chalo]

Only 60 kph ? I can do that with my 6t mac motor on 35-40 amps and 52 volt pack.
Although it does use up the battery pack fast when doing so.

My favorite power and speed calculator says 3000W at the wheel only yields about 41 mph/66 kph with a sit-up-straight riding position. That's closer to 4000W from the battery.

 

[Tommm]

Only 60 kph ? I can do that with my 6t mac motor on 35-40 amps and 52 volt pack.

I can do 60kph with just a bbs02 and some pedaling. The X-1 should be able to take most bikes above 70 kph with 52v/65a doing just a slight aero tuck, above 80 kph with 72v/65a

 

[silence]

The motor is claimed to produce torque over 4Nm?
If so,the CSK12 seems to have pretty hard times here, transferring the
torque up to ~25Nm - this is 2.7 times of it's nominal value, which is 9.3Nm.
OK, Stieber says Tmax=2xTn, but 18.6Nm is still not enough.

Or are my calculations wrong?

 

[crossbreak]

The motor is claimed to produce torque over 4Nm?
If so,the CSK12 seems to have pretty hard times here, transferring the
torque up to ~25Nm - this is 2.7 times of it's nominal value, which is 9.3Nm.
OK, Stieber says Tmax=2xTn, but 18.6Nm is still not enough.

Or are my calculations wrong?

No, you are right. there should be around 30 Nm at the clutch, they claim 180 Nm at the cranks.
This "CSK12" has an inner dia of 17mm. Thus it should be called CSK17, which is capable of 30Nm. Most likely a chinese fake or maybe a wrong marking during production. Anyway it seems to be up to the task, i think the build quality speaks for itself

 

[ScooterMan101]

Crossbreak,

On your pictures at bottom of page 2 of this thread, I see the Bottom Bracket , parts of it red in color ... Is it a I.S.I.S. design ?

if not what type of Bottom Bracket Tool did you use to take it off / apart ?

What mm size are the BB end caps ?

 

[ScooterMan101]

Even 3000 watts is going to use up a battery pack very fast so it will be interesting to get some reports on this once more people get this kit and run it at higher power levels.
I will be experimenting in the Future , the difference in power usage at a given high speed with a dropper post.
What the readings are with the post fully extended up for best peddling height and then with the post down like not peddling .
Unless someone does this before I get a chance to .

Only 60 kph ? I can do that with my 6t mac motor on 35-40 amps and 52 volt pack.
Although it does use up the battery pack fast when doing so.

My favorite power and speed calculator says 3000W at the wheel only yields about 41 mph/66 kph with a sit-up-straight riding position. That's closer to 4000W from the battery.

 

[crossbreak]

I used the normal shimano multispline tool to fasten the BB. yes it has an ISIS spline, not sure if it meets all specs. for some reason the bolt of another isis crank doesnt fit. I'll post dimensions and investigate on this tonight.

please stop the power handling speculations. there is no point in this. try to wait till we get real world data.

 

[larsb]

I read this thread, however much i like the left drive concept i think that lubricated chain and disc brake side by side is not good even with a disc shield.. Even the dry lubes fling off a little and some end up on the brake.

at least 3d print a small chain guard or forget this concept if you like good brakes :wink:

 

[SlowCo]

The beauty of the LHD set up is that you can have regenerative braking at the rear :wink:

 

[larsb]

If motor is not swing mounted then the needed tensioner and slack will be pulled before the regen. Not really the primary brake you dream about, eh?

 

[crossbreak]

at least 3d print a small chain guard or forget this concept if you like good brakes :wink:

thx for the hint it's already on my list. Need to cut the new mount plates/side plate and the 12T front sprocket now, i plan to get them done by the end of next week.

in the meantime i should have some time to design such a "chain guard" and print it. Unfortunately this will then only fit the Magura MT5e brake :?

 

[larsb]

Yah, it's a good brake anyway, would've been worse if you drew up a tektro guard

 

[Andrewol]

Hi Crossbreak. Can you read my PM? They hasn't been sent from Outbox for unknown reasons.

 

[andrebandre]

I read this thread, however much i like the left drive concept i think that lubricated chain and disc brake side by side is not good even with a disc shield.. Even the dry lubes fling off a little and some end up on the brake.

at least 3d print a small chain guard or forget this concept if you like good brakes :wink:

Molten speed wax

 

[Dumsterdave]

I'm a bit confused. Is the gng and cyc the same motor? The gng looks like a cyclone, while the cyc looks a bit smaller

 

[crossbreak]

this is the cyc X1 which would have been quite obvious to you if you had read the thread title.

the lazer parts (sideplates, sprocket hub and front sprocket) have arrived, i will install them on the weekend and post pics. Unfortunately the chain tensioner doesnt fit as is, the bolt that fastens it on the sideplates of the drive is slightly too short :? I hope i can come up with a quick workaround and a final solution. I think i have to add a sheet to align this tensioner properly.

 

[Dumsterdave]

this is the cyc X1 which would have been quite obvious to you if you had read the thread title.

The thread title says gng/cycmotor. So it has both in the title.

 

[crossbreak]

GNG and cyclone are more or less the same company. when i made the thread it was not clear wheather this is a cyclone or a GNG.
there is no such thing as a GNG or a cyclone motor. Both GNG and cyclone sell a lot of different motors. In the end one could say that this is another new brand, cycmotor. just dont care about the brand, lets call this child the X1 Pro, like they do.

forgot to add a pic of the sideplates and sprocket hub, here it is

 

[Andrewol]

Can we use something like this?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/80CC-STOCK-ENGINE-KIT-REAR-SPROCKET-HUB-ADAPTER-PART-FIXES-SPROCKET-RUNOUT/182007095246?_trkparms=aid%3D333200%26algo%3DCOMP.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20171012094517%26meid%3D5638f139951e44d0a8f0e53742e78ff6%26pid%3D100008%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D323645607714%26itm%3D182007095246&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
or
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Adapter-Sprocket-27Tooth/322887432676?hash=item4b2d9739e4:g:CMQAAOSw3s1aDebk

 

[crossbreak]

Can we use something like this?

not sure, if it fits your frame/chainline i'd say yes. Also you have to meet your desired reduction ratio though.

Here are some older pics, trying to get the final assembly done, maybe i can make new pic from the pedal side at the weekend or so. ATM i am off since i am sick the pic of the sprocket shall tell you how it is mounted closer to the motor/gearbox to straighten the chain line, i tunneled the sprocket 15mm in dia so the adapter sits on the 12mm shaft and the 15mm shoulder, the sprockets sits on the larger 15mm part of the shaft 8)

Unfortunately the chain tensioner doesnt fit as is, the bolt that fastens it on the sideplates of the drive is slightly too short :? I hope i can come up with a quick workaround and a final solution. I think i have to add a sheet to align this tensioner properly.

caught this by putting another 5mm thick sheet to left sideplate so the chain tensioner stands out further 5mm and lines up with the chain, as can be seen in the pic
maybe i can shorten the chain another 2 links but that depends on suspension design which is the boring thing that comes now. I wont post pics of this, you'lll see that in the more final pics later anyway

and yes, it spins. if i spin it by hand it keeps turning 4-5times, which isnt much worse than a MAC or Bafang geared hub, this gives me some confidence that this drive freewheels ok, even with the chain moving, which is almost silent...at least the pedal drive freewheel is loader than the left hand motor chain

and yes, the left pedal is clear to the motor shaft and motor chains tensioner. looks close but it does, at least CAD did not fool me there (clearance <3mm )

 

[SlowCo]

Looks good :thumb:
Will the chain not touch the bottom bracket when the rear suspension is completely compressed? If it does, then you might need to lengthen the chain and let the tensioner push down the chain more. Or move the tensioner more rearwards closer to the bottom bracket maybe.

 

[Grantmac]

Could you not mount the motor above the BB behind the seat tube? I've been looking for a frame to do exactly that.

 

[crossbreak]

Could you not mount the motor above the BB behind the seat tube? I've been looking for a frame to do exactly that.

Hm... :? it indeed looks like in the last picture. I will try! it will most liekely interfere with the right hand chain wheel i guess. A slightly shorter motor would fit though.
Edit: Have a look at the pics below. It would fit if the motor was ~10mm shorter. As is, thoe motor would not clear the pedal chain line

Looks good :thumb:
Will the chain not touch the bottom bracket when the rear suspension is completely compressed? If it does, then you might need to lengthen the chain and let the tensioner push down the chain more. Or move the tensioner more rearwards closer to the bottom bracket maybe.

Thanks! Yeah this is what i meant with supsension stuff. The damper needs a full service and i have to check all clearances. The fork would need a service, too but I am too lazy ATM. I have to get really angry at this fork to overcome my inner couch potato