Donor for tall guys

[fechter]

Here's one made for a 7' guy:



Well, that would probably be overkill. I've noticed that with my ebikes, I can tolerate quite a bit shorter frame since I'm not pedaling so hard.

And I like the way you handled flat tire. We need fewer members like that and more like you.

 

[e-beach]

Some insights on inexpensive kits. No particular order.

My inexpensive motor is going on 17,000 mikes now. I will hit that near the end of the year. I did blow up the original controller when I shorted it out fooling around with the wiring. I have gone through 3 sets of e-brake levers due to crashes. I have never had one not cut the motor due to switch failure. However, the break cable adjustment barrel screws go bad quick due to the cheap metal that they are made of. Adjustments to the breaks will need to be done at the v-break cable anchor screw. The grips are hard and useless. The wheels do not come with a rim liner, so you will have to put one in the wheel. You will want better tires anyway. The rear wheeled motors aren't always dished well so will need a spoke wrench to adjust the rims. You may need to put a large washer between the motor and the dropout to center the motor. The racks are cheap. Mine didn't fit my 2nd bike frame. Battery bags are worthless. You should put your battery in the triangle for optimum balance. It will most likely come with a threaded freewheel. As stated above you may want to replace it. It will work without replacement. The thumb throttle eventually go bad. Start looking at thumb throttles on the internet and order a replacement one to have on the shelf as soon as you get the kit and know what connectors you need. Having an extra parts on the shelf save a lot of time if something goes wrong.

 

[rootshell]

Thank you for the comprehensive feedback. Finished tearing down everything so I could drop it off at the shop tomorrow for sandblasting/PC. Will clean the rest of the parts in the meantime since I'm looking at 1-2 week turnaround on the frame.

Need to start shopping for the battery as well.

 

[j bjork]

I would wait with the powdercoat until the bike is finished, at least to the point when it is finished for a test drive.
I mean, there will probably be some drilling and welding to the frame before it is done.

Mounts for battery, controller, lights, wiring..

 

[wturber]

I would wait with the powdercoat until the bike is finished, at least to the point when it is finished for a test drive.
I mean, there will probably be some drilling and welding to the frame before it is done.

Mounts for battery, controller, lights, wiring..

If he were building a touring bike, I'd tend to agree. But this is a short to mid distance commuter that probably doesn't have to carry a whole lot or a very large battery. The photo doesn't show a lot of detail on the rear dropouts, so it is hard to tell how well equipped this bike is for fenders and rack attachment points. But it doesn't look like there are any. So now would be the time to get those added if you think you'll need them. I put fenders on my commuter and I ride in relatively dry Scottsdale/Phoenix/Fountain Hills in AZ. That said, you can use clamps to create attachment points if there aren't any integral to the frame.

 

[RunForTheHills]

If he were building a touring bike, I'd tend to agree. But this is a short to mid distance commuter that probably doesn't have to carry a whole lot or a very large battery. The photo doesn't show a lot of detail on the rear dropouts, so it is hard to tell how well equipped this bike is for fenders and rack attachment points. But it doesn't look like there are any. So now would be the time to get those added if you think you'll need them. I put fenders on my commuter and I ride in relatively dry Scottsdale/Phoenix/Fountain Hills in AZ. That said, you can use clamps to create attachment points if there aren't any integral to the frame.

Yeah, that seems like a lot of extra expense for a project like this and most people on this forum don't modify their frames to build a simple commuter. If the OP did want to go that route, I can highly recommend Ed Litton in Richmond, CA. He restored a Colnago Super frame for me and modified and painted an old Fuji mixte I built up for my wife including adding attachments for the torque arms for the Sturmey Archer drum brakes. I kind of regret the IGH and drum brakes now as it makes it difficult to convert to an ebike.

 

[wturber]

The one thing I'd add is that I've found I don't like using a backpack in lieu of bike racks or baskets. For shorter commutes it probably matters less. But when I was doing 16 miles and even for my current 8 mile commute, I much prefer having stuff on a rack or in a basket than on my back. Beefing up my rear rack and adding my milk crate to it was a huge plus compared to wearing the backpack. 2-3 miles though - probably doesn't matter much.

 

[e-beach]

Grabbing your brief case (or backpack) and putting it in a box on the back of the bike is convenient. Too much weight and the bike gets squirrely. I used to have a fold out rear basket that attached to my rack that was perfect for shopping bags. It got crushed when I was hit by the car. I should get another one. They are really handy.

As for a battery, it basically goes like this:

All lithium batteries should be handled properly.

RC lipo has the highest energy density for the price. You can save money with it because you don't need a large battery to deliver the needed amps. They do not seem to last as long as other chemistry's and is volatile and can catch fire more easily then other chemistry's is not handled properly.

18650 style Lico and (and similar chemistry's) are the most popular type of e-bike battery due to size vs energy density. They are also reasonably configurable. This kind of battery is relatively safe although they too can catch fire as Dogman found out when his house burned down. This type will last longer then RC Lipo, but not as long as LiFePO4

LiFePO4 is a lesser used chemistry but it is very safe and doesn't seem to catch fire even when fully charged cells are punctured. The lower energy density is countered by larger cells. The big cells can be a problem for configuring for an e-bike. They last a long time. I am about 800 cycles on my Headway 15a cells and they still deliver 80% of original watt hours. They do however sag on the hills way more then when they were new.

If you want to try something new, go with LTO and let us know how it goes.

 

[rootshell]

I did not drop off the frame today to take the previous points into consideration. To be honest, I think a bike rack would be beneficial. There may be situations where I use the bike around campus outside of my short commute with materials to carry. I'm going to see if I can locate a rear basket style that saddles the wheel on the cheap. I have no problem though clamping to the frame, or drilling and tapping for the components, but wont be doing any welding personally. Trying not to farm out any more services either to keep within budget.

I don't think I'll reassemble it however, since I can get a good idea of what needs to be drilled and where without actually riding the bike. I doubt that will change much once the bike is complete. I mean, a bike rack is going to go where a bike rack goes, and there's plenty of room in the triangle to mount the battery and controller. There aren't any spots on the frame that look to accommodate a rear fender or basket. The only other areas on the frame that look to be set up to host a mount are the two sets of nubs for, what I imagine, are a water bottle holder above the Schwinn logo and opposite it on the inside of the frame. I'll probably grind them both down in the end anyways to accommodate the battery mounting flush to the frame and other components. Doubt they are conveniently positioned for anything other than their intended purpose.

Ideally, a rear twin basket would be perfect, such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Wald-Rear-Bicycle-Carrier-Basket/dp/B001EL7P34/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bike+rear+twin+basket&qid=1559153179&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-1

Even better would be this one, which has the added benefit of transporting smaller items without the threat of loss during transport:

https://www.amazon.com/Bushwhacker-Omaha-Bicycle-Grocery-Accessories/dp/B00B4ZKZK0/ref=asc_df_B00B4ZKZK0/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312144750238&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5952006780169437110&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1013950&hvtargid=pla-523944087001&psc=1

Could just line the wire basket however with fabric shopping bags (which I have tons of) and save $20.


In regards to the batteries, I am very familiar with Lipo's, and have had two flame up on me over the last 10 years. I treat them with nothing but respect and store them appropriately in my garage. I use LiFe packs on receivers in my models as they're better suited in regards to voltage and safety. I have NO interest in messing with LTO on this project. I'm familiar with them and it's far more involved than using the already available LiPo packs in regards to assembly, packaging, and the BMS setup.

 

[e-beach]

Then the last thing to do is to make sure the battery you buy will be able to handle the amp draw of your motor-controller.

 

[e-beach]

OK, I just looked at your pannier rack links. Panniers are great except they can, over time get munched if you lean your bike against something repeatedly, like say a wall.

E-bikes are heavy and normal kick stands don't always keep them upright. And, if your bike falls over then it takes time to go over everything to make sure nothing is broken.

So' if you want non-fold out panniers, then get a good center stand kick stand so you don't have to lean the bike to keep the panniers from deforming over time.

 

[rootshell]

Yeah, I have no faith in the kickstand currently installed. It barely holds the bike up as is. There are bike racks all over campus, so I won't need to rely on it often, but one of thoser double stands would probably be better.

Cheapest battery I found on ebay prepackaged was this one. There are a few of identical type, but this was the lowest priced:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-10Ah-HaiLong-E-Bike-Lithium-Battery-Charger-For-Electric-Bicycles-Scooter/263986427862?hash=item3d76d137d6:g:GhMAAOSw11BcCQYF

 

[thundercamel]

I can say for 48v motors and controllers, I do prefer 14s 52v batteries instead of 13s 48v batteries. The controllers usually have a conservative low voltage cutoff set around 41 volts, which only drains the cells down to 3.15v for 13s and 2.93v for 14s. Most lithium ion cells are good down to 2.75 volts, and some like the LG MJ1 down to 2.5 volts though no one would do that on a regular basis. In the end, 13s 48v batteries usually have you leaving capacity unused by the time the controller hits it's low voltage cutoff.

 

[e-beach]

Ok, so what I am seeing here is the "I need to keep with-in the budget inexpensive battery dilemma." It happens all the time around here.

The problem with a cheap battery is it is made cheap. Cheap cells, cheap electronics, etc. At best it will last for a while but not as long as a more expensive battery purchased from a vendor with a good reputation. If you only have a little bad luck with it, it will only stop working and might be repairable. At worst if you have really bad luck, it will catch fire.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=87975

It is really important to get the battery right. Even if it costs more then you wanted to spend, it is worth it. And, yes, it seems like you are paying $200 more for the same thing, but in reality you are paying for genuine cells, quality electronics, a quality build and quality service if something stops working.

Check out:

ebikes.ca

em3ev.com

lunacycle.com

pingbattery.com

Or, get some of the inexpensive 10a RC lipo and keep it off the bike and in a fireproof box when you are not using the bike.

 

[thundercamel]

I would agree with that. A guy I ran into on the trail started a conversation with me about his CEmoto ebikes he was having trouble with. Ended up giving me the pair of bikes, which I gave to a friend for his birthday. The original battery used some 2000 mAh cells which in just a few years had built up so much internal resistance, they couldn't power the wheel at all without the voltage dropping to the cutoff point in the controller. We rebuilt the battery with LG MJ1 cells.

 

[rootshell]

Ok, so what I am seeing here is the "I need to keep with-in the budget inexpensive battery dilemma." It happens all the time around here.

I'm actually doing pretty well as far as the budget is concerned. I haven't purchased everything yet So far my numbers look like this:

Donor: $40
Rear hub kit: $210
Basket/Rack: $35 (optional, so I am really not considering this in the cost since I do currently use a backpack and may continue to do so for a bit if I can't find a used rack/basket)
V Brake: $50 (new assembly for the front, new pads for the rear.)
Tire liner: $10
Chain break took: $10
Lower bracket removal and re-installation: $10
TOTAL: $330 minus the rack.

The problem with a cheap battery is it is made cheap. Cheap cells, cheap electronics, etc. At best it will last for a while but not as long as a more expensive battery purchased from a vendor with a good reputation. If you only have a little bad luck with it, it will only stop working and might be repairable. At worst if you have really bad luck, it will catch fire.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=87975

I have a very robust lipo charging and storage system in my garage which I'm comfortable with. The largest packs I currently use are 12S 5300mAH packs, so I'll have to either enlarge the existing or build a new bunker for this battery. Been toying with the notion of wiring up a smoke detector to one of my arduinos and programming it to fire up an exhaust fan in the garage and notify me via text of any issues. Maybe this new larger pack will prompt me to get moving on it.

It is really important to get the battery right. Even if it costs more then you wanted to spend, it is worth it. And, yes, it seems like you are paying $200 more for the same thing, but in reality you are paying for genuine cells, quality electronics, a quality build and quality service if something stops working.

Check out:
ebikes.ca
em3ev.com
lunacycle.com
pingbattery.com

I don't really mind spending more on the battery as I buy quality packs for my expensive models anyways. The EM3ev 52V (14S4P) Super Shark Ebike Battery from em3ev is not a bad option, and seems reasonably priced ( 11.4aH @ $369 w/ 2A charger)

https://em3ev.com/shop/52v-14s4p-shark/

 

[RunForTheHills]

Been toying with the notion of wiring up a smoke detector to one of my arduinos and programming it to fire up an exhaust fan in the garage and notify me via text of any issues. Maybe this new larger pack will prompt me to get moving on it.

I have some of the First Alert Z-Wave Smoke and CO2 detectors. They connect wireless to my SmartThings hub and I have it send me a text as well as turn on all the lights in the house if one is activated. My wife has set off the one near the kitchen accidentally and it worked perfectly.

 

[lionman]

You don't need an Ebike for a 2 mile round trip. It seriously wouldn't be worth the hassle, or the worry of it getting stolen.

For short trips where you leave a bike often at the same place, get a cheap used push bike. You will be replacing it fairly regularly, and 1 mile each way is a very short ride. It doesn't even need to be a perfect fit. It's 1 mile!

 

[E-HP]

Ideally, a rear twin basket would be perfect, such as this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Wald-Rear-Bicycle-Carrier-Basket/dp/B001EL7P34/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=bike+rear+twin+basket&qid=1559153179&s=sporting-goods&sr=1-1

Even better would be this one, which has the added benefit of transporting smaller items without the threat of loss during transport:

https://www.amazon.com/Bushwhacker-Omaha-Bicycle-Grocery-Accessories/dp/B00B4ZKZK0/ref=asc_df_B00B4ZKZK0/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312144750238&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5952006780169437110&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1013950&hvtargid=pla-523944087001&psc=1

Could just line the wire basket however with fabric shopping bags (which I have tons of) and save $20.

I see a lot of people using these folding basket/saddlebags. Huge capacity, but they fold up completely when not in use. That helps with transport, or if you ever take the train/BART, or want to throw your bike in those secure bike lockers that are popping up everywhere.

https://www.amazon.com/Axiom-Folding-Pannier-Basket-Black/dp/B001DMXGY6?ref_=Oct_RAsinC_Ajax_194528011_3&pf_rd_r=5FXZ9FFN3F1BX2PFJTHQ&pf_rd_p=f904eca1-4a35-577e-b451-7003313eddaf&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=194528011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[amberwolf]

You don't need an Ebike for a 2 mile round trip. It seriously wouldn't be worth the hassle, or the worry of it getting stolen.

For short trips where you leave a bike often at the same place, get a cheap used push bike. You will be replacing it fairly regularly, and 1 mile each way is a very short ride. It doesn't even need to be a perfect fit. It's 1 mile!

This isn't always true.

I couldn't ride a non-ebike for a mile, unless I stop for an hour every few dozen yards, on a bad day, and maybe every eigth of a mile or so on good ones.

Depends on the person and situation.

So rather than telling someone that they don't need something...why not help them make what they want? Or leave them alone?

 

[thundercamel]

I don't really mind spending more on the battery as I buy quality packs for my expensive models anyways. The EM3ev 52V (14S4P) Super Shark Ebike Battery from em3ev is not a bad option, and seems reasonably priced ( 11.4aH @ $369 w/ 2A charger)

https://em3ev.com/shop/52v-14s4p-shark/

The smart BMS that includes will be nice peace of mind to confirm that the cell groups are staying balanced. I believe an unbalanced pack is what happened to dogman dan, and as long as 18650 cells stay with their rated specs, they are quite safe.

 

[rootshell]

You don't need an Ebike for a 2 mile round trip. It seriously wouldn't be worth the hassle, or the worry of it getting stolen.

For short trips where you leave a bike often at the same place, get a cheap used push bike. You will be replacing it fairly regularly, and 1 mile each way is a very short ride. It doesn't even need to be a perfect fit. It's 1 mile!

I imagine most people on this forum don't 'need' an ebike at all either. Everyone here can certainly pedal a bike. I also am sure that most people don't 'need' to convert a bike when they can just buy one outright. We all have our reasons for what we buy and do. For some of us, we just like working on projects and having a hobby. It gives us a purpose outside of the monotonous rituals of daily life and injects some fun back into it. For others, they like to buy expensive toys. Some of us like to take something old and give it a new purpose in life. Maybe some like riding around on something that makes us feel cooler than we really are, and there's nothing wrong with that. I wanted a new project and this looked like something fun to build and ride. Lets leave it at that.

Also, I will have incidental trips across campus (up to 1 mile) without close access to my car. Waiting for a taxi ride can often make me late to meetings and has before. It would be super convenient to hop on an ebike and get to where I'm going without breaking a sweat (often before having to do a presentation in front of a bunch of folks far higher than my pay grade).

and for the last time, there is NO chance of my bike getting stolen where I work. None, zero, zip. It's a large government facility, unavailable to the general public, guarded by armed personnel that take their job a little too seriously at times. I've seen bikes rust in one place for years before finally being removed by site personnel.

 

[rootshell]

The smart BMS that includes will be nice peace of mind to confirm that the cell groups are staying balanced. I believe an unbalanced pack is what happened to dogman dan, and as long as 18650 cells stay with their rated specs, they are quite safe.

I've been using large lipo packs for a long time in RC applications. The only instances where I've seen them erupt are when they are damaged or overcharged. We use intelligent balance chargers to mitigate the overcharging problem since our packs usually do not include the BMS (and don't need it).We store them at 'storage' charge levels (3.85v/cell) when not in use and discharge them for disposal. Of course there are exceptions, which is why I have special charging and storage areas in my garage for handling lipos. I'll drop the extra money for a good battery/BMS.

 

[e-beach]

Sounds to me like you are going in a good direction with your e-bike plan.

Other small details,

you might consider, after riding for a while, to change your rear break to the left side lever. They call it Moto style, why I don't know as all my motorcycles had a foot pedal for a rear break. However, ones right hand can get tired doing all the throttling and breaking. When you start riding you will feel it in your thumb anyway from the throttle. That goes away over time. Some prefer twist throttles for that reason, and that they might fit your handle bars better depending on your shifters. You may not ride enough to have a tired right hand. Just know it can happen.

Some of us around here make sure our front break can not lock up the front tire. I got hurt once when a car cut me off and I pulled my breaks so hard the front tire stopped rotating. If it only washed out I would have been better off, but my inertia caused my bike to flip as everything rotated over the front wheel leaving meflying over the handlebars. I landed hands first injuring both hands and my right solder. My hands healed in a few months, but my solder took a year to heal. So now my back break locks up the wheel, but the front break grabs hard but is not adjusted to lock up the wheel. It also allows you to steer the bike while breaking while breaking hard.

 

[rootshell]

Thanks again for everyone's input so far. Not much for wasting other peoples time or my own, so I appreciate those who have chimed in with their experiences and suggestions.

Well, my conversion kit came in today. The tire that came on that thing looks to be about as useful as a sack of wet mice. The wheel fits nicely in the dropouts, however. Not sure if I should bother with torque arms on this frame or not.

Also, I was wrong when I said there were no mounting bolts for a rack. There are two allen bolts flanking the seat post area which appear to be for that purpose. Think I'll order that battery today.

I'm also considering stripping and painting the frame myself. Looking at a two week turnaround on that powder coating and I don't really have much to do on the project in the meantime. Also, I have a bit more freedom on the color as my 'free' PC job would have been a basic color.

I have a paint gun, compressor, and have used automotive paint and clearcoat on a fiberglass camper shell before with that setup. Won't be as resilient at PC, but it will give me something to do. Haven't made up my mind on that yet, but might just go at it tomorrow with aircraft paint stripper.