Dual rear wheel fabrication

[koonaone]

Hi Folks

I have a heavy framed bike (out in the snow) that I wish to power with a Non-hub Motor, mid Drive. It would be entirely possible for me to stretch the rear "forks" wide enough to take 2 wheels instead of one. A dually. to take more weight.

I have never seen such a thing, but why not? Have any of you, clearly more experienced folks, fabricated or bought, or even heard of a dually for a bicycle?

Driving dual wheeled trucks on back roads will ocassionaly pick up a boulder back there, a chain tied to a tree pulls them out but it's something to think about.
I look forward to replies.
(___)
{o,o}
/)__)
-"-"- . . . . . douglas

 

[MattyCiii]

Given that trucks don't lean into corners like bikes do, the increase in capacity from two rear wheels won't likely be a good trade off to the strange handling.

People - myself included - have made super tough wheels by using motorcycle tires and rims on bike hubs. Makes for a bike that rides like a motorcycle - in both the worst and best ways you can interpret that.

I think the real bicycle gurus will chime in here but - even moto rims/tires are overkill. High quality bike parts - a nice strong and rigid rim, quality hub and spokes can carry very heavy loads. For those times you carry a boulder, ride slower and avoid bumps

 

[wesnewell]

Put these together.
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=738295
http://www.niagaracycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=822330
and you should get plenty of traction.

 

[koonaone]

Thanks for the replies

@MattyCiii,
[[ > Given that trucks don't lean into corners like bikes do, the increase in capacity from two rear wheels won't likely be a good trade off to the strange handling.]]
I can't drive my civic anymore because of my eyes. I can however still handle a couple hours biking it at 5 to 15 mph on a nicely paved highway with a 7 foot wide pullover lane to go get my supplies. And, nobody will be bugging me for my license, or eye exams and such. I don't really have any square corners in life that I have to take at speed. But you are right, one beefed up tire would be better.

@wesnewell , wow, I see what you're getting at. Pricey aren't they but not that bad. That's all it took to get me motivated, the bikes on the porch thawing out and by tomorrow chicken feeding time I'll know rim size and what tire size is on there (slashed). It is a Norco built sturdier than you commonly see around anymore, 22.5 " rims, about 1.75" wide and the rear wheel hub is 16 inches behind the saddle post.

I know about, and lust after, modern $$ batteries, but 12VDC deep cycle rv batteries are part of my scene here for lights, music, computers, fans, alternators, boat motors, you name it, all mostly free, I would buy 2 new ones for this though. ($160) They weigh in at about 60 - 70 pounds each though and I either need a bike that will pack them and me (200lb), or build a trailer. I will eventually build one, when my pension allows, to pack my 5hp brigs and straton 16V alternator setup that I use on the canoe on longer trips. for now though I'd like to be able to make it about 6 flat highway miles to town, and back too, 1 moderate, short hill. So i figure 2 batteries to keep from running them down too much without the charger on board.

This is just what I need, I've had it with living alone in winter already this year and I can do the bike in the living room. Or the unused bedroom, while I watch my baby tomatoes grow. It will get me off the net for a change.

Thanks very much for the replies. I'm motivated.

.........\
. . >Oo> - - - douglas
........./

 

[MattyCiii]

No shame in using lead. Electrons are electrons, they'll get you where you're going.

 

[chisixer6]

Years ago, I read of the Iditrod race in Alaska, some of bikes had dual rims laced together to use one wide tire, to travel on deep snow. I don't know how they laced it, of course that before they had the wide rims.

 

[amberwolf]

I pondered doing this for CrazyBIke2 (should be a blog post about it on http://electricle.blogspot.com ), and discussed it over on Freakbikenation forums (cant' find the thread now though), probably also here on ES in my Crazybike2 thread.
(edit: found the blog posts:
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/09/dualie-wheels.html
http://electricle.blogspot.com/2009/12/dualie-wheels-mk-ii.html

Never got around to it, but I was going to do it by spot-welding two steel rims side-by-side, cutting a hub in half and extending it with tubing, and doing the same with the axle.

Then lace the left flange to the left rim and right flange to right rim.

Was planning on using two tubes and two tires at first, then thought about using a single extra-wide tire (3-4") with two tubes in there, and an old tube glued over the welded-together rim edges, possibly even grinding down those to just a nub ridge just for weld strength. The single tire would give a much less funky turning performance.

A while back I got some wide motorcycle tires and have been considering finding a pair of steel rims the right diameter to do this with for them. They're so thick and stiff-walled that they'd hold the bike up rideably even without air or tubes in them. :lol: Wouldn't perform very well, but it'd get me home!


So far just haven't had the parts, time, and energy and capability to do it all at the same time (like most of my ideas).

 

[boostjuice]

If you can afford to drop the coin on it you could be the first person to electrify one of these.

http://knstrct.com/2011/01/10/ktrak-the-birth-of-a-new-sport/

 

[boostjuice]

It seems someone has already done it with a petrol kit.

Actually, electric has been done already too.

 

[koonaone]

@boostjuice
- Wow, then I could ski down the lake to the pub. Check my setlines on the way, put em in a smoker, eatem on the way back. Mmmm, Hot rums and fresh smoked Kokanee and whitefish. Those are some machines, I want one. That's a case where wider is gooder.

Hmm, now i'm hypotensisizing a paddlewheel for summer. Shoot, why not a hovercraft for bad ice.
Hm Hm Hm. Made my day.

douglas

 

[Chalo]

Dual rims and tires are established practice for snowbikes (to provide flotation and traction on soft, loose surfaces), but are much less relevant now that there are very wide rims and tires available.

Here's a twenty-year-old example:

Here's a triple rear wheel:

Weinmann now makes affordable double-walled rims in 65mm, 80mm, and 100mm widths. There are several 26 x 3.7" to 4.0" tires available, and even one 26 x 4.7" tire from Surly. If you can't do a task with a bicycle that has those on it, you probably can't do it with dual wheels either.

When you lean a dual wheeled bike, the weight is applied to just one side, so each wheel must be capable of supporting the load by itself. That makes an extra-big single rim better for heavy loads.

Trikes are a somewhat different matter, because they don't lean. So you can use wide dual wheels if it helps. I used dual wheelbarrow wheels on a trike and trailer rig I built (four on the trike rear axle and four on the trailer axle), with which I have hauled 3200 pound gross weight loads.

Chalo

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

If you can afford to drop the coin on it you could be the first person to electrify one of these.

http://knstrct.com/2011/01/10/ktrak-the-birth-of-a-new-sport/

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2853&p=41584#p41584
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22507
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48521
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=57243
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=57564
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=74255
http://www.christini.com/news/ll-track-snow-utility-bike#

 

[full-throttle]

If you can afford to drop the coin on it you could be the first person to electrify one of these.

I trashed ktrak bcuz it suxx in all parameters

/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=45740&start=105#p690599
[youtube]M-ZB87Ky-10[/youtube]

 

[AussieJester]

Check ratrodbikes forums youll find examples of how to lace two rims to one hub but
as Chalo has said, no need with the extra wide rims now avaialble. Choppersus sell
upto 4in wide rims now, i actually have run them on the rear of trikes and two of my two wheel cruisers.

KiM

 

[rocwandrer]

I have some experience with almost everything posted to this thread thus far (except the tracked/ski bike, which by most accounts is poorly thought out garbage).

Is the goal just more load capacity? What is the failure you are trying to avoid? What is the application you want to build?

There are now a good dozen 559 standard (26")tires bigger than 3.7" wide. These are all some combination of way too expensive for their quality level, because of high demand and small volume production. I own 10 such tires (5 different casings/treads), and lust after the new studded ones (dillinger), and the front rear pair of 4.8" wide, 7mm lug ones (Bud and Lou). These are great things for a lot of reasons, but I'm not sure load capacity to failure is one of them.

I've done the dual rim single tire thing a long time ago when 29mm was the widest bike rim you could get. You basically have to cut the middle two rim walls out. Mounting the tire and getting tubes in without pinching them is near impossible, iirc. I've also done dual tires. The result works much better than a single tire on semi packed snow, provided that you lean your body and not the bike in corners, and are willing to live with handling that typically makes most people inclined to get off and figure out what has gone wrong or walk rather than keep riding.

Some of the better quality free ride rims and tires offer as a side effect of their intended use parts that will work under very high loads at higher speeds and/or at lower pressures without issue compared to standard issue high quality mtb stuff. Unless you need a DOT stamp, I have a hard time seeing needing moped/motorcycle parts on anything short of a full blown electric motorcycle, though it may well be the easy button for some people.