E-Bike XB-502 conversion project

[ElectricGod]

Pulling the wiring back together...yawn! Still a bit more to go to get things all working on common ground instead of common whatever.

 

[Ianhill]

With my experience 60amp is bang on the money for a constant current on these after that they get hot even still thats 5kw constants thats enough to get you shifting around the 60mph mark I can't remember the motor choice now for this one you got so much going on.

Seems I like a witch when it comes to predictions.

Just had a browse to refresh myself on the build, there's alot been done to this ALOT, Hopefully fix the ground woes and you will have a nice spring and summer out of it trouble free.

 

[ElectricGod]

With my experience 60amp is bang on the money for a constant current on these after that they get hot even still thats 5kw constants thats enough to get you shifting around the 60mph mark I can't remember the motor choice now for this one you got so much going on.

Seems I like a witch when it comes to predictions.

Just had a browse to refresh myself on the build, there's alot been done to this ALOT, Hopefully fix the ground woes and you will have a nice spring and summer out of it trouble free.

lol...yup...get this fixed and it will be all good. I should have fixed this a long time ago, but I was lazy. After that it will be 100%.

 

[Ianhill]

U happy with wiring now ?
Crazy how I guessed the top speed even if you went with a different motor,

Took my kuberg out and it's a police magnet, I went 500 feet from my front door on rural back lanes and a highway cop came out of no where and they never go rural as where I live lucky i was by the mountain path I use so he just give a nod as I went where he can't then after a hour I dropped down off the mountain few miles down on opposite side and a traffic cop was sat waiting at bottom of the lane watching cars go past, first time ive ever seen it so that ride didn't go so well but I got home safe plenty of range.

I can't fault it pulls well not to fast top end on up a steep hill though with a slow rolling start it rockets up between 5-30mph a much bigger 125cc bike is needed to beat it, but then a 50cc kids bike will have a higher top speed neither I can lift through my house only the kuberg is silent enough on the mountain for the police not to really give any hastle by looks long as I don't take piss on the roads.

 

[ElectricGod]

U happy with wiring now ?
Crazy how I guessed the top speed even if you went with a different motor,

Took my kuberg out and it's a police magnet, I went 500 feet from my front door on rural back lanes and a highway cop came out of no where and they never go rural as where I live lucky i was by the mountain path I use so he just give a nod as I went where he can't then after a hour I dropped down off the mountain few miles down on opposite side and a traffic cop was sat waiting at bottom of the lane watching cars go past, first time ive ever seen it so that ride didn't go so well but I got home safe plenty of range.

I can't fault it pulls well not to fast top end on up a steep hill though with a slow rolling start it rockets up between 5-30mph a much bigger 125cc bike is needed to beat it, but then a 50cc kids bike will have a higher top speed neither I can lift through my house only the kuberg is silent enough on the mountain for the police not to really give any hastle by looks long as I don't take piss on the roads.

Wiring...not done yet...been busy with other projects and got 1/3 done on it.

More speed...actually...I have the motor wired up so all 6 phase ends extend out of the motor. I did that a good while back so I could mess with wye/delta switching via a relay. I have the phase wire ends terminated in 5.5mm bullets. Converting from WYE to delta is not difficult. All I need to do is reconnect the bullets differently and it's set up for delta which puts the 64 Kv in WYE at 108Kv in delta. I'll get another 10-15mph out of it without doing anything else. I'm somewhat tempted to do it. There's no such thing as too fast. I could drop a tooth on the motor sprocket for better torque and still have a higher top speed. I think that's worth while.

Maybe that cop at your back street was just a coincidence. Maybe he was there for some other problem and you just happened on him investigating that other event...whatever that was. I'd give it another shot, the cops can't be everywhere. IMHO, it's your job in life to circumvent those nosey, control freaks every chance you get!

Ever watch videos of dudes on bikes screwing with the cops. A bike can go places a car or SUV can't. It's not hard to 100% piss off the cops and they can't do anything about it. I've watched people on bikes and motor cycles ride circles around the cops and they run their sirens and are completely unable to catch anybody. It's a bit amusing.

I'm not an anarchist, but the cops have way too much power and they use it like a club. Standing up to them is a necessary evil.

Your Kuberg is geared for torque, not speed. Of course that's the point so it can climb hills well. I bet it's a great ride.

 

[ElectricGod]

YEAH!!! Wiring is all fixed...just in time for a severe winter storm to come through. It will probably be days before things clear up enough to go riding again.

In the process...
I added the upgraded DC-DC converter which is now capable of running everything without voltage sag. It can do 20 amps no problem.

I added mosfet switches for the low and high beams so I don't cook the factory switches and wiring.

I upgraded the power wiring to the high beams. This introduced a new issue that never existed before. The factory wiring had a lot of resistance so the XHP70.2 head lights were running under powered. Now that I have much larger wire in place and no longer use the low amperage switch contacts directly, they are getting the amperage they need. This introduced more heat...or rather the heat that they should be producing if they were driven properly. Up inside the cowling there is very little air flow if you are sitting still and the heat just gets trapped in there. I am now working on adding a fan for the head lights so the hot air is getting replaced. I have a few fan options I'm experimenting with and I'll probably add a heat sink to the lights as well so they don't get too hot. It will work, just needs some tweaking.

Otherwise the XB-502 is back up and running again.

I recently acquired a 50kv Revolt RV-120-regular outrunner. It's the same size as an Alien Power 12090 which is rated for 18kw peak. The biggest difference is the eRPM of the Revolt motor is half that of the 12090 which means I can use it and can't use the 12090. The HLD inrunner gets me going just fine and is easily 5-10X stronger than the factory hubby. However, acceleration isn't as strong as I'd like and I don't want my top speed to be less. I'm getting the RV-120 ready to go to replace the inrunner which has maybe 100 miles on it. It should be easily 20-30% stronger and won't tax the 18 fet controller too much. I may need to add more cooling to it as the fan on it now works OK for the HLD, but at the higher wattage of the RV-120, I think it will be getting hot again. Maybe it will be OK. To get the HLD doing something pretty decent means 200 phase amps and I bet I'll likely be turning that down for the rv-120.

I've added halls, temp sensor, upgraded the phase wires, replaced the factory bearings, reinforced the shaft to bell union and made a motor base for it. I still need to make a mounting bracket and modify a shaft to sprocket adapter for 15mm ID before it can get used. This motor has been in my possession just a couple of weeks and I've gotten it ready to go pretty fast. I'll soon see how warm it gets under load. I might need to add a radial fan if it does get warm.

 

[ElectricGod]

I worked out cooling for the XHP70.2 head lights now that they are running at full power.

I tried a blower, but that din't work out and directing the air to both lights would require some kind of air splitter. After trying several places, I gave up on the idea and scrounged for a pancake style fan instead. I don't care about the noise level as the wind rushing by will drown out everything else. I found a high CFM fan and of course it's a bit noisy as it whips the air. The one fan is big enough to blow directly onto both lights at the same time. I then added a couple of north bridge heat sinks from who knows what onto the lights to provide more surface area They are stuck down with thermal glue onto a large flat area of the light shells. A little trimming made them a nice fit over the fan. The fan is essentially glued in place. The inside edge is glued to the light fixture shell and the exposed edge has those 2 M3 screws super glued to the underside of the plastic cowling. Everything is hidden this way and comes off with the blue nose section. The same mosfet that turns on the LED's turns on the fan.

I was wasting a good bit of air flow from the fan as it missed the back ends of the lights.

This piece of sheet metal redirecting that lost air flow onto the lights dropped their temps by 15F. I ran this for 30 minutes straight and they never got over 124F. In motion with air ramming up in there, they will be even cooler.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

While your solution is impressive, I went with these compact LED H4 bulbs instead:

http://stores.advmonster.com/h4-r3-led-headlight/

and this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qp1bqgKLc

Brilliant light. Excellent beam pattern. No heat buildup. Decent price.

Michael

 

[SlowCo]

While your solution is impressive, I went with these compact LED H4 bulbs instead:

http://stores.advmonster.com/h4-r3-led-headlight/

and this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qp1bqgKLc

Brilliant light. Excellent beam pattern. No heat buildup. Decent price.

Michael

That's very expensive for a not so impressive design.
If you look on AliExpress you get a lot of results including LED lights with built in fans:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YHK...8e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6&transAbTest=ae803_3



https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pc...8e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6&transAbTest=ae803_3

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...8e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6&transAbTest=ae803_3

 

[MJSfoto1956]

While your solution is impressive, I went with these compact LED H4 bulbs instead:

http://stores.advmonster.com/h4-r3-led-headlight/

and this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qp1bqgKLc

Brilliant light. Excellent beam pattern. No heat buildup. Decent price.

Michael

That's very expensive for a not so impressive design.
If you look on AliExpress you get a lot of results including LED lights with built in fans:

LOL! Those are crap. All of them. Poor beam pattern, low output, noisy fan than can and will break, overly bulky, etc. Methinks you don't appreciate the beauty of the elegant design I linked to.

Michael

 

[SlowCo]

Methinks you don't appreciate the beauty of the elegant design I linked to.

Michael

I just don't appreciate the price ($45.- each???) and that they are out of stock at the moment. :wink:

BTW no need to get defensive and trying to justify to yourself overpaying for that "elegant" design you linked to... :lol:

 

[Ianhill]

Loving them lights be perfect for a winter trek through a forest giving her some beans, in the UK the cops will get they knickers in a twist with any of then used on the public highway even the led shown above is a no no, the beam pattern can be all over the shop and only a small handful actually give any meaningful improvement over stock specially for other on coming road users any car will fail mot if tested in a legit station no dodgy tickets etc.

 

[MJSfoto1956]

I just don't appreciate the price ($45.- each???) and that they are out of stock at the moment. :wink:

BTW no need to get defensive and trying to justify to yourself overpaying for that "elegant" design you linked to... :lol:

BIG THUMBS DOWN: You would stick shitty LED lights in your vehicle and blind on-coming traffic and claim it was a "feature". SMH.

 

[SlowCo]

BIG THUMBS DOWN: You would stick shitty LED lights in your vehicle and blind on-coming traffic and claim it was a "feature". SMH.

Oh dear, someone feels hurt...
Don't worry, your overpriced Chinese LED lights are much better designed and have a calibrated light beam pattern :thumb:
Feel better now about your choice? You should be because you tested all the shitty ones I linked to and just know you're right.
And don't worry too much as I just run the standard original light bulb that came with my scooter/moped as it was tested for road use. :wink:

 

[MJSfoto1956]

Oh dear, someone feels hurt...

Seem you are projecting. :lol:

Don't worry, your overpriced Chinese LED lights are much better designed and have a calibrated light beam pattern

Not "my" lights. Dozens of some very serious folks on the ADVrider forum have tested the Chinese LED crap ad infinitum. Don't take my word on it. Educate yourself dude. Go over there and find out what real motorcyclists use.

Feel better now about your choice?

I could give a f*ck what you think. LOL!

You should be because you tested all the shitty ones I linked to and just know you're right.

I did indeed test several of those very shitty Chinese LED lights that you get off on and came to the inevitable conclusion that they are crap. Most others agree, you seemed to have missed the memo. Obviously you are just a Monday morning quarterback and are showing your ignorance. :yawn:

And don't worry too much as I just run the standard original light bulb that came with my scooter/moped as it was tested for road use.

I don't waste my time worrying about whiny folks like you. So far you have lucked out in life being a prick.
Sooner or later you'll get your comeuppance making others suffer with your cheap choices in life.

Lord knows, I would never hire someone like you as an employee or depend upon someone like you as a supplier or partner. I don't do business with slipshod motherfuckers. Heck, I've even fired customers like you when I discover they are pricks -- life is too short to waste time dealing with such poor quality! YMMV :thumb:

M

P.S. Thanks for playing!

 

[SlowCo]

:lol:

Now back on topic (sorry eGod for the thread derailment)

 

[ElectricGod]

So...hijacking my own thread...

Just my preference and opinion, but Chinese LEDs are pretty lame by comparison to legit CREE's. Can you say "64oz big gulp vs a sippy cup"?

I can build my own lights and run them how I want by incorporating an already impressive LED into a cheap Chinese LED host to get epic brightness at very little cost.

No Chinese LED will ever compete with a real CREE. They may solder down to the same star board, but that's where the similarities end. CREE XHP70 (left) and Chinese XHP70 (right).

1. All CREE LED's can be over watted 10-20% over factory specs with no loss of longevity. OK, I don't really know if you lose longevity or not. Many years of over watted use and no deterioration says something good. When an LED lasts 10 years and you lose 5-10% of that, who cares!

2. Chinese LED's can't be over watted but maybe 1-2% and then they do lose life rapidly. I've tried over watting Chinese LED's and they just burn out after a minute or so. They can't take the voltage, current or the extra heat.

3. For the same voltage and amperage a CREE will produce more light than a Chinese LED of the same form factor.

4. CREE LEDs come in lots of colors from UV to very yellow while Chinese LEDs are almost all 54-5600K (bluish).

I have XHP70.2, XM-L2 and XP-L2 LEDs from CREE. I can tell you for a fact that the above 4 statements are true. Anything I have with a Chinese LED of these types gets them replaced.

China does make some decent LED shells or hosts. The ones in this moped are not very good hosts. Even after replacing the plastic reflectors and adding an aluminum block inside, they are still pretty crappy. However, there's other hosts that are rock solid and 100% well made. These are great hosts with a fairly decent chinese XHP70 in them. Still NOT what a real CREE XHP70.2 will produce. They are pretty good as is, but once I mod them with a real CREE...well they are epically better.

These are both super cheap hosts that are very small, but they work well for an XM-L2. The left hosts have a focusing ring so you can set the light pattern how you want. They are not water proof. The right ones have a retaining ring that holds in the lense and they focus light really well for a good "throw". They can be immersed in water if you seal up the hole for the wire.

This is a really small keychain light that you can buy on ebay fro $12. The host is really nice and the LED OKish. I reflow a CREE XP-L2 on the board and then adjust the output voltage up a little. This is 2 side by side fully charged identical keychain lights. Take a wild guess which has been upgraded to a CREE LED!

 

[ElectricGod]

:lol:

Now back on topic (sorry eGod for the thread derailment)

And NEVER let it happen again! haha.

 

[ElectricGod]

While your solution is impressive, I went with these compact LED H4 bulbs instead:

http://stores.advmonster.com/h4-r3-led-headlight/

and this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8qp1bqgKLc

Brilliant light. Excellent beam pattern. No heat buildup. Decent price.

Michael

Yeah but I had more fun than you. You bought a pre-made LED light. Albeit a pretty good one. I engineered my own solution. Maybe it's not commercially available, but it's all my own work.

 

[ElectricGod]

That's very expensive for a not so impressive design.
If you look on AliExpress you get a lot of results including LED lights with built in fans:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/YHK...8e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6&transAbTest=ae803_3

HTB1Jnu9XOYrK1Rjy0Fdq6ACvVXao.jpg

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pc...8e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6&transAbTest=ae803_3

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/201...8e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6&transAbTest=ae803_3

I haven't done it yet, but eventually I'll have a use for something like these lights and then I'll strip down the entire light, pull off the chinesium craptastic LEDs and replace them with legit CREE's. I'll toss out the pathetic and weak drivers too.

BTW...a real XHP70.2 running at 6.8v will use about 9 amps or around 60 watts. It will be so bright that you can't look at it directly without causing temporary blindness. I think staring into one will eventually destroy your retinas! I ran an XHP70.2 at 12v once...just to see if it was possible. It was, but it didn't last long and it pulled down a healthy 14 amps or 168 watts!!! That LED was just as bright as the arc from a welder. I glanced at the brightness and had spots in my vision for 30 minutes! The intense heat is what killed it. The LED die could not get rid of the heat through the copper star fast enough to NOT go thermo-nuclear. Fun experiment, but pretty pointless for long term use.

BTW...I have 4 of these. I read the chinesium specs and they sounded great and they were cheap so I bought several. Now I know why. They are a truly pathetic LED light. I use them for my running lights in front, but they suck as a head light. 100 watts...I seriously doubt it! Maybe 10 watts if I'm generous. At least the seller didn't insult us with some BS lumens rating like 5000 lumens. You can stare into these lights and walk away with a few spots in your vision for a minute at most. 100 watts...uhuh...almost 2X brighter than a real CREE XHP70.2...yeah right!. Anybody want to buy the Eiffel Tower from me? I promise to sell it for a good price!

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2pcs-H4-LED-High-Power-100W-20-SMD-Super-Bright-Auto-LED-Reverse-XBD-LED-Fog/32918289256.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.59.6ecc6b71J06b3m&s=p&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_10_10065_10068_319_317_10696_10084_453_10083_454_10618_10304_10307_10820_10821_10301_537_536_10902_10843_10059_10884_10887_321_322_10103,searchweb201603_61,ppcSwitch_0&algo_expid=e0e79c9a-838e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6-11&algo_pvid=e0e79c9a-838e-4904-8ae3-794311a342c6&transAbTest=ae803_3

 

[MJSfoto1956]

...I have 4 of these. I read the chinesium specs and they sounded great and they were cheap so I bought several. Now I know why. They are a truly pathetic LED light. I use them for my running lights in front, but they suck as a head light...

Simple rule of thumb: if it has COB cells, it will suck for a headlight. (fine for other kinds of lights, btw)
The real deal are CREEs as you pointed out -- they give the best beam pattern.

Michael

 

[ElectricGod]

...I have 4 of these. I read the chinesium specs and they sounded great and they were cheap so I bought several. Now I know why. They are a truly pathetic LED light. I use them for my running lights in front, but they suck as a head light...

Simple rule of thumb: if it has COB cells, it will suck for a headlight. (fine for other kinds of lights, btw)
The real deal are CREEs as you pointed out -- they give the best beam pattern.

Michael

Yes...good point about COB style lights. They can make a lot of light with all those tiny interconnected LED's. BUT it will not mimic the hot spot or filament in a bulb very well. The light is scattered more which is great for general visibility, but not for "throwing" light as is needed for a headlight.

I use COBs for tail lights, running lights and so on, but for head lights I want large single LEDs.

 

[SlowCo]

I must admit that I have a small single 18650 cell Cree T6 flashlight that is very impressive. Love this guys review of flashlights and customization with Cree LED's:

[youtube]8_T-YIvWNmQ[/youtube]

 

[ElectricGod]

I've thought about doing this for a while...and he has one.

This is crazy light! 12 XHP70's...holy frock! And I bet they aren't even over driven.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_eiEpOtA8I

 

[SlowCo]

Yes, I saw that video also. Imagine that as a headlight...
It would not only blind everyone in front of it but also yourself from al the reflexion