E-bikes: an extremely unreliable form of transportation

[Rifle]

My throttle broke for the 4th time (in 4 months) last week. I was using the back-up throttle I made out of a 5ohm potentiometer. New throttle arrived. I installed it. It worked inside. Took it outside and it didn't even move me an inch before the bike broke again. This time I'm pretty sure it's the motor. The motor only goes if you spin the wheel to get it going. Even when going it tends to vibrate quite a bit at certain speeds. Anyone know off hand what the problem is and how/if it can be fixed? Bad hall sensor?

Also, what does it take to get a dependable e-bike? This is the first major component (motor/controller) to break, but I've had it less than 6 months and haven't even been able to get that much riding in because of all the minor things that have broke.

 

[mwkeefer]

Check your hall sensor wires, the plugs - make sure positive contact for each pin and that you didn't push any out the back... also check the 3 motor phase wires, ensure they are tight.

How have you gone through 4 throttles? Since June?

I don't mean to be critical or rude in any way but... I think maybe youve got somthing configured hinky? If you can point me to other posts regarding your previous issues, I will backtrack through them and try to see what's going wrong.

Personally... my eBikes have been more reliable than my segway or even my car - I've not had a single kit part break on me, I wrecked a set of front alloy forks being stupid before I figured out to modify the axle not the dropout and get the right torque washers for the tabs.

Im sorry youve had such a bummer experience, hopefully I (or someone else) can help you get sorted.

-Mike

 

[Rifle]

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12805
That post describes a phenomenon that has happened a few times to me, one of those times I believe preceded a throttle breaking.

The following post was after my 2nd throttle broke, but I don't I described it much, I was just seeing if people knew of any that were dependable.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=13375

All connections and wires seem fine.

 

[dnmun]

since we don't know how you wired up the throttle 'fix' there is no way to know what happened to it.

do you have a voltage on the red wire? on the green wire? black wire?

 

[liveforphysics]

Any machine is as reliable or unreliable as you make it to be.

 

[dnmun]

irredensibly platitudinous, modus modifiabus, fixus eventuallaus



use the force, luke.

 

[Rifle]

Any machine is as reliable or unreliable as you make it to be.

Fair enough. I titled the post assuming that something had gone wrong in the motor, but I have discovered the cause. One of the phase wires broke off at the anderson powerpole. So this will be a very easy fix. But I'm not sure why it happened. I attached it to the powerpole by crimping, maybe I crimped it to tight? Gonna try soldering it this time.

How have you gone through 4 throttles? Since June?

Part bad luck maybe? Part impatience. I don't know why the first throttle broke. Or the second, but actually that one started working again after I took it apart and put it back together. I think it broke the 3rd time due to it still being wet from it being on the back of my car in the rain. Should have taken a hair dryer to it, but it seemed dry and had been inside a couple days and I was running late. Anywho, thanks for your help. I keep thinking all the problems have come out of the woodwork and then another rears its head. But once again I find my self thinking maybe the struggle to get a dependable e-bike has finally come to a close.

 

[mwkeefer]

Rifle,

Where did you get the 9c from... your the second person in a week with talk of andersons coming apart. I assume you have had your kit a while... maybe if youve connected / disconnected a few times it caused the crimp to fail... I remember reading someone here on ES who solders them. I cut them off and use 4 or 4.5mm gold plugs, using the low current power wire to disable the controller leaves the cap charged when you pull the golds... for days it seems, again little to 0 spark on connect (and no, my golds aren't blackened with high resistance and thus acting as a slow charge resistor).

Wires which are not soldered do come apart by design, very few plugs / connectors can handle the power I pull without being huge. Auto grade connectors are great until a max of 20 or so amps, past that... no thanks.

Once you have your kit on... and your satisfied with the performance, consider atleast soldering the butt end of the phase wires to the andersons.

-Mike

 

[Rifle]

I got my kit from Amped Bikes. I put the Andersons on myself in June. I've also had a battery connection break off twice, but that is something I've soldered so that's probably just me getting the copper wire too hot. My other solder jobs have held up just fine though. Must just be due to the type of connector on the battery that I've gotten it too hot. I tried not to get it so hot this time. Hopefully soldering the Anderson on will hold up just fine.

 

[mwkeefer]

1.) Solder up the andersons
2.) Solder up the halls into a 5 pin din connector set (watch the heat on these) to enable quick disconnect and use a piece of tube or make a boot for the jack.
3.) Hot glue the back side of EVERY molex connector so the pins don't get wet but also so they can't push back through...
4.) Take your throttle apart now... either hot glue around the wiring or use latex/epoxy, etc to fill it for water proofing (were you putting the inner retention plastic clip on the thumb wheel? Ive seen many fail because of this.
5.) Check your spokes, axle nuts, etc (just for fun)

Enjoy trouble free riding...

Where is your controller mounted?

Can you post some pics of the bike / wiring?

-Mike

 

[dnmun]

when you have a solder joint on a soft copper wire and the wire flexes but the solder doesn't then over a very short period of time the wire will fail from metal fatigue at the point where it enters the solder. this is one of the primary arguments for using crimp fittings. i still feel that high current connections need solder joints though.

yes, your hall sensors shorted out from the water. most common way throttles can fail.

water in the throttle can also cause unexpected runaway too by shorting the hall sensor to the power, just a little current leak will do it.

 

[rscamp]

Good point dnmun about the stress with a soldered connection. A strain relief can restore reliability here.

I'm surprised so many people crimp an Anderson PowerPole connector. Crimp connections can be very reliable but ya gotta have the right size wire with the right plating going into the right size barrel and use the right die in the right tool. The process should be confirmed periodically with testing. There are no guarantees with anything less.

Anywho, two things to watch out for when soldering a PowerPole:

- heating the barrel so much that it takes the temper out of the contacts. You'll know because they get very ductile (easy to bend).
- too much solder wicking up the wire strands making the wire stiff where it comes out of the connector and resulting in a weak point farther up

 

[morph999]

What kind of motor is it? Nine continent?

I got a crystalyte 5303 and a Forsen. Both have been reliable for me but I've only put 400 miles on both motors combined.

For battery connections, I've used a two wire connector thingy. Works fine for me. You put a wire in on one side, then clamp down on it, then put one in on other side and clamp down. No solder needed.

 

[morph999]

only motor that I've thoroughly tested is my Forsen. It consists of a Forsen hub, then an infineon controller (or some other similar kind) and a ORO throttle. It says "ORO" on the top. All 3 parts have been pretty reliable for me. 400 miles on it.

 

[Zoot Katz]

hmmm, mine have pedals. They work just like a bicycle. I've never had to walk or hitch a ride home.

 

[swbluto]

Fair enough. I titled the post assuming that something had gone wrong in the motor, but I have discovered the cause. One of the phase wires broke off at the anderson powerpole. So this will be a very easy fix. But I'm not sure why it happened. I attached it to the powerpole by crimping, maybe I crimped it to tight? Gonna try soldering it this time.

I thought I had mastered the art of crimping Andersons using a standard crimper, but I found the connection to be unreliable as they pulled out with a moderate amount of force. For sure, I now make it habit to solder the wire at the end to secure it even now that I have an official Anderson crimping tool (I don't think it's made my life that much easier - it's still an arse to plug the tongue into the powerpole and that was typically the hard part.).

 

[JinbaIttai]

That really sucks to hear about your throttle. My ampedbikes throttle has been 100% problem free with the original connections, rain or shine. I do have the connection tucked into an under the seat bag away from the weather. These days I agree with the title of your thread though. At least your battery is good to go, right?

 

[dogman dan]

Aren't you the lucky one? I have over 5000 miles on ebike now, in under 2 years but I never had one throttle issue other than breaking off the thumb throttle tabs

I do agree though, one bad connection, charger shuts off early, etc, and now you have a very heavy bike to ride home. I've had my share of problems over the last 5000 miles, but for some reason never the throttle. Every connector is a point of faliure, plus the extra wear and tear on the bike itself makes ebikes better suited to those who can fix it themselves. If I could, I'd edit the thread title though. Sometimes unreliable is more my experience, not extremely unreliable.

 

[Rifle]

hmmm, mine have pedals. They work just like a bicycle. I've never had to walk or hitch a ride home.

Not an option for me. I messed up my legs permanently a few years ago. Mainly bought the e-bike because it was the only way I could figure out to enjoy the outdoors again.

So I fixed the phase wire connection and immediately another problem popped up. Motor cuts our when I go over bumps. Checked the connections at home and both the throttle and 5-pin motor connection cut out the motor when I move them. This was not a problem before the phase wire connection broke. Looking at the connections I can not find anything wrong with them. I'm wondering if the issue is with where they enter the speed controller. The throttle connection seems to cut the motor out even easier if I mess with the wires where they enter the speed controller. Plus, why have 2 connections that have been solid for 4 months suddenly both become crap? Don't know if I want to try re-doing the connections first, or cracking open the controller first.

 

[monster]

electric bikes are twice as unrelyable as bicycles because there are twice the number of things to go wrong. however there is also twice the redundancy because there are two drive trains.

water can also get into the throttle plug and have the same effect. i've never had a hall throttle brake on me in 2 years of ebiking. i always wear gloves maybe it protect the hand throttle from rain also? andersons are pretty good when soldered. you should have problems with them. hall senso plugs are usually bad on bike kits. swap them for something else. i use kb/mouse sockets/plugs from RS

 

[Rifle]

Where is your controller mounted?

Can you post some pics of the bike / wiring?

-Mike

My controller is in a mesh pannier pocket with a little bit of foam padding on one side. I'll post some pics, but I think I'm going to try to get my current problem figured out first.

 

[Rifle]

So I fixed the throttle connection. All I did was replace the plastic housing for the male connector. Don't have an extra housing for the 6-pin connector, but putting the bare male spades into the female connector also fixes the problem. Don't know why that would help. Maybe there's some sort of conductive filth on the covers? At any rate, I find this all to be absurd. This electric biking is becoming Sisyphus' stone.

 

[dogman dan]

You could cut all the connectors except the ones to connect the battery and the charger on the bike off, and solder the wires together. Then you would have only one connector to troubleshoot.

One nice feature of the aotema kits is that they have no halls, so all you have is throttle connections, and three wires to the motor. Every connection is a point of faliure, that is for sure. I find one of the more reliable connectors out there is a simple wire nut. Solid connections and no tools needed.

 

[Rifle]

I was tempted to solder the wires together awhile back, but I decided against it so it'd be easy to remove the speed controller for when I'm driving through the rain with the bike on the back of my car.

 

[miro13car]

Your title of your thread is VERY general.
please, do not throw everything in one bag, because you are frustrated with your ebike.
Where is any support from place you bought your kit?
Therer are tens of all kind of bikes out there.
My TF had been very reliable, 14, 000km with very few problems is reliable enough?
drop -shippers are the worst of worst - they never see what customer gets.
Spend US$200-2500 and you will not have problems.
Example E+ bicycle made-in USA.
Miroslaw