E-bikes are arguably worse than electric cars

[99t4]

While bikes and ebikes have plenty of advantages, security and the time it takes to properly secure a cycle in a high risk area is not one.

Yes agreed. Usually* (mostly depends the location) a car is more convenient in terms of jumping out, locking it, and forgetting it. But with practice and getting a system down securing the bike is not much more of a nuisance. Depending on the location and risk factor I will use a 1) U-lock; 2) U-lock and brake disc alarm lock; 3) U-lock, brake disc alarm lock, and cable lock. Have a system for storing the locks, keep the keys in the same pocket, etc. and the process does not require much fumbling around.

*Unless it is a Hyundai or Kia. Those are stolen every day and used to commit other crimes.

 

[fill]

Yes agreed. Usually* (mostly depends the location) a car is more convenient in terms of jumping out, locking it, and forgetting it. But with practice and getting a system down securing the bike is not much more of a nuisance. Depending on the location and risk factor I will use a 1) U-lock; 2) U-lock and brake disc alarm lock; 3) U-lock, brake disc alarm lock, and cable lock. Have a system for storing the locks, keep the keys in the same pocket, etc. and the process does not require much fumbling around.

*Unless it is a Hyundai or Kia. Those are stolen every day and used to commit other crimes.

I applaud the self discipline, myself less so, but still find the 2 wheeled options preferable, even in the wet and cold on occasion, tho not every occasion.. edit just to clarify i do not own or have the cash available to own an electric car and my 28yr old rover is not the classic its age would suggest..

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

Why these electric cargo bikes are 10x faster than delivery vans in a city

Why these electric cargo bikes are 10x faster than delivery vans in a city

Fabrication of these with ultra 200/400/800 dyneema shells or transparent dyneema composite fabric would shave a lot of weight off. Put the usual 750w BBSHD ramped up in , or an independent rc motor feeding a rear wheel, maybe make it a quad, carbon fiber poles to hold the canopy together, thin plexiglass windows or whatever if necessary. A *lot* of weight can be discarded. Someone with a knife could perhaps slice the canopy though. A dimpled white dyneema hard shell or carbon fiber would probably also work

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Would be nice to see someone use this type of thing for something similar to the lightning recumbent spandex fairing but sheathed around the body of your upright bike. I've seen wearable heavy aero torso things and those plexiglass front domes in handlebars but nothing that approximates a motorcycle body without all that weight

 

[Chalo]

Fabrication of these with ultra 200/400/800 dyneema shells or transparent dyneema composite fabric would shave a lot of weight off. Put the usual 750w BBSHD ramped up in , or an independent rc motor feeding a rear wheel, maybe make it a quad, carbon fiber poles to hold the canopy together, thin plexiglass windows or whatever if necessary. A *lot* of weight can be discarded. Someone with a knife could perhaps slice the canopy though. A dimpled white dyneema hard shell or carbon fiber would probably also work

Enclosures for bikes have never caught on because the disadvantages of cost, weight, fragility, bulk, rider heating, noise, reduced vision etc. outweigh the aerodynamic and weather protection advantages in almost every application. What you suggest would make them a little less heavy, a lot more expensive and fragile, and no better in any other respect.

 

[uhmwpolyethylene]

Enclosures for bikes have never caught on because the disadvantages of cost, weight, fragility, bulk, rider heating, noise, reduced vision etc. outweigh the aerodynamic and weather protection advantages in almost every application. What you suggest would make them a little less heavy, a lot more expensive and fragile, and no better in any other respect.

i mean i kinda agree, although people in UK etc love their flintstone bikes

But for utility work stuff? Strong dyneema tarp is going to weigh a lot less than carbon or that fiberglass

And an upright bike fairing out of lighter dyneema with carbon poles would probably only add another 1-2 lb

Enclosures for bikes have never caught on because the disadvantages of cost, weight, fragility, bulk, rider heating, noise, reduced vision etc. outweigh the aerodynamic and weather protection advantages in almost every application. What you suggest would make them a little less heavy, a lot more expensive and fragile, and no better in any other respect.

 

[circuitsmith]

*Unless it is a Hyundai or Kia. Those are stolen every day and used to commit other crimes.

My neighbor's 85 y.o. mother came from rural VA to visit in her unprotected Kia Soul, and a few hours later stolen:
Stolen Car First Street - 10/29/2023 - YouTube

Couple months ago they tried to steal my Hyundai Tucson.
Steering wheel lock thwarted them, but $3300 damage.

 

[From-A-To-B]

When they start killing people right and left like car drivers do, your opinion might gain some merit. But not until then.

Context: I live in a small, dense city of 60,000 people. The city is only 2x2 miles wide and tall, so there’s a great opportunity for more people to get around by bike here. Lots of folks walk, most drive. We’ve had bike shops for years, but our first ebike store opened up 2 years ago.

I agree with you, Chalo, about misbehaving e-riders primarily being a danger to themselves. I also fear that nuisance riders hinder progress toward people powered or light electric vehicle transit. Neighbors complaining or harboring resentments about ebikes/scooters/electric unicycle daredevils doesn’t exactly help build support for more bike lanes or related infrastructure.

I lock my bike and remove any unsecured bags in probably 20 seconds or so, and reverse the process about as quickly. Usually there's no zipping or gloving involved, and my glasses stay on throughout.

I guess it helps to live where the weather is mostly cooperative (as long as your skin is radiation hardened).

I tagged Chalo’s post to chime in on the timely utility of ebikes in errands and commuting. It’s been a few years since I’ve owned a car, and I wasn’t timing my grocery commutes when I owned on. The town I live in placed all its grocery stores in the suburban belt outside the city. What a city-planning bummer! Yet, it might take me an extra 5 mins to get to the store, 3.5 miles away, on my ebike than with the use of a car. The extra time is almost entirely attributed to the fact that I take the longer route through neighborhoods (and their stop signs) to the store because the “car” route is fast, heavily traveled roads with piss-poor shoulders.

Properly locking my bike takes 30 seconds. Loading my groceries into panniers requires marginally more time than slinging plastic bags (yuck!) into a car trunk. (Can we ditch the bags, y’all? Bring your own.) You know what I don’t miss? Parking my car in my congested neighborhood. And I love the adventure of riding my bike!

Separately: my parents live 30 miles away by bike. Because of the way the highways are laid out around here, it used to take me 50 minutes to travel 44 miles in a car to visit them. I’ve ditched the car and see them just as often, and the more direct 29 mile trip on my ebike only takes 1:30. I full-gassed the voyage once and made it in an hour-flat, but commuting at 30mph on an ebike sucks.

All in all: I feel that I’ve given up very, very little since I got rid of my car, and I’ve gained an exciting, cheap, sustainable method of travel in return. And I wouldn’t have done it without ES! Thanks, y’all!

 

[Chalo]

I full-gassed the voyage once and made it in an hour-flat, but commuting at 30mph on an ebike sucks.

Yeah, using tiresome laser focus on the lane surface, and sometimes getting punked by debris or negligent infrastructure anyway, isn't fun. I only let my horses run on stretches I know to be smooth, relatively clean, and free of surprising traffic conflicts. That's not much to choose from, where I live.

Oddly, freeway frontage roads often qualify, and locally they've been growing bike lanes here and there. It's very unpleasant being that close to fast noisy cars and trucks, but man can I trim down some travel times that way.

 

[Ianane]

And it's all 'horses for courses'. I live 500m above my work and the most direct 10km route has serious 15 to 30% ramps on very poor surfaces... I dream of going this way but I need lower gears... my current one to one gear ratio, 500w motor and work ethic struggle at 20%.
The next most direct and 'safe' route is 12kms and involves a steady 6 to 7% gradient over 7 kilometers. This way is one of two 'main vehicular' routes up into the hills where I live so I avoid going up it except for around midnight after an 'Afternoon Shift'. I also use this route mostly to go to work - going down I can roll between 50 and 65kph so I don't feel quite as threatend by cars though my 'laser focus' is only just enoughat these speeds... but great fun. The other 'main vehicular' route takes about 60 to 70% of cars and trucks, is the busiest at all hours and I nearly always avoid except for occasionally going down.
Another reasonably direct way has a 20% ramp and so a challenge choice... but this route doesn't benefit from the 'national park' effect so there is not much pleasant about it beyond a challenge and subsequent sense of achievement.
The common commute up is about 14kms and a proxy bicycle route. A reasonably well paved road and a pleasant ride with national park on one side. It's meandering nature lowers the percentages of the climbs which also keeps most cars, except local traffic away. This is the common weekend lycra set route into the hills.
Then for 'holiday' commutes, I have a 21km northeren route that again borders a national park and is simply gorgeous to ride up through and a 25km southeren route which is largely an old freeway, that has been superceeded by some tunnels and turned into a bicycle path. Although this way is largely protected as I ride up it, only some of this route borders national park while the other side is freeway so the audioscape is dominated by the woosh and roar of fast cars and trucks. I also need to play 'Russian Roulette' an extra 10kms of traffic to ride up the only 'protected bike path' into the hills where I live.
And 'what is the point of this essay?' I hear you all ask.
Before my 'modern e-bikes', If I rode to work going down was never a problem... funny that.
Coming home took around 65 to 75 minutes and I was shattered. If I lost motivation, there was no gradual getting back to fitness... it was weeks of pure grind.
Years ago, I had an Aprilia Enjoy and that got my time down to 45 to 50 minutes but it was not equal to the task.
Now I my commute by e-bike is between 20 and an 70 minutes depending on direction, bike (motor really), the load I carry which can be up to 30kgs of shopping and choice of route.
The point here is CHOICE.
Sure I can choose to drive nearly all of these routes, but I don't because there is no point. I don't enjoy the parks and the nature as a wizz by in the car, I just look at the tarmac and the vehicle in front until I get to work or home. It may be quicker, by about 5 minutes to an hour, but it isn't fun, it isn't enjoyable, it does not improve my fittness or health and costs way more. This is the same whether it is an electric car or a dirtier car.
In over 20,000kms of commuting and god only knows how much elavation gain, I'm still on my original batteries.
We have an electric car and it is ideal for going places as a family but for just me, for just commuting or having fun or doing both at the same time, I choose e-bikes everytime.

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, using tiresome laser focus on the lane surface, and sometimes getting punked by debris or negligent infrastructure anyway, isn't fun. I only let my horses run on stretches I know to be smooth, relatively clean, and free of surprising traffic conflicts. That's not much to choose from, where I live.

Full suspension eliminates that. My previous FS with a manitou (oil? air? i forget) and a fox shock rear took potholes, curb drops, and irregularities better than my very light, abnormally large diameter tire'd car when brand new.

I never had to focus on the road anymore to think about slowing to dodge something... It was great!

 

[WhatchTalkinBoutWillis]

The 'Elf' and the 'Pebl' and similar make sense for local scale. We don't need to discard the technology we have devised, and we don't need to stop learning more and using it. But we can't afford to give people excuses to ignore reality - like a 'car' in it's current form. Spending resources to massage some idiot's ego is obviously a criminal waste, and difficult to justify with any compassion for others.

Looks like the PEBL has been out of business for about 5 years, but someone is using the name to scam people out of their money.

The PEBL from Better Bike, Scam or Incompetence?​

peblbike.com

 

[calab]

People tend to forget this. I wonder how many years got added to folks lives because of info posted on ES about ebikes?

A.I. will answer such numbers

Yes agreed. It's almost as if the OP's purpose was to create controversy.

Creates "buzz"