gas price thread

[The Toecutter]

Simple solution from a personal POV, just get out of Amerika now already a failed state,only getting worse.

No systemic solutions will be possible in the US, even bloody revolution will no longer be possible, and the 0.01% combined with fossil fuel / pharma / etc corporate oligarchy just won't follow JFK's advice.

So get out while you can.

This shitshow is on a global scale. Leaving the U.S. won't isolate one from the consequences of the last 50+ years of bad decisions made by an international class of obscenely wealthy parasites. It will only delay the inevitable day of reckoning.

That said, some places will be worse off than others. I think the southwestern U.S. will suffer a particularly difficult set of circumstances thanks to a combination of declining energy availability, rampant urban sprawl, deteriorating infrastructure, depleted aquifers, shortage of arable land, reliance upon indoor climate control for human survivability, large distances between populated settlements, an electric grid increasingly vulnerable to a rapidly heating climate, and especially considering that the human population within that region has overshot the natural carrying capacity by at least 100-fold. Do not get stuck in or near Las Vegas, Los Angeles, El Paso, or Phoenix.

Those who live near the Great Lakes in regions of abundant farmland could fare relatively well compared to the rest of the world, provided that everything isn't sold off to rich foreigners seeking a return on investment and/or to multinational corporations.

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

They are little more than demonstration sites , which cannot be replicated on a world scale.

I purposely omitted Scotland and California because it was either HH was gonna whine about 99% (Scotland) vs 100%, or he was gonna screech about population. Sun Shines, grass grows, and HH moves goalposts- Why are you so against having hope :lol: ? Speaking of...

We definitely need the latter. The former doesn't exist in U.S. politics whatsoever, only the illusion of it, and the political system is deliberately designed to fully prevent this sort of leadership from ever forming, let alone attaining political power. Elections in this country, if you can even call them that, are neither fair nor honest nor are the candidates available on the rigged ballots even representative of the views of those who are tasked with voting for them.

If the situation was hopeless, their propaganda wouldn't be necessary. I've learned a lot about power in the last few years- especially in 2020- and one thing I've learned is the faster you go, the faster you make a new "normal". Power and speed be hands and feet, as Thoreau said.
You can thank the lack of a true left-wing here to Herbert Hoover of the FBI; that bastard alone likely set this nation back a century. My time protesting has showed me, that the alphabet agencies are really good at infiltrating any slightly-left group around (probably thanks to all their time spent undoing democracies in Latin America) and the lack of any natural leaders in BLM tell me they subverted it pretty damn quick. Studying other members of my generation... you'd really just have to encourage using old and outdated 1960s tactics, push the "personal fable" of every youth wanting to be a new civil rights leader, and encourage smaller cells instead of larger masses driven by common points. Divide and conquer is the name of the game; my local chapter got decimated in ONE police action and because it was made up of working class, just never recovered after they jailed all protestors for ~72 hours.

People won't change when you have an economic system and government that penalize the actions that allow for the realization of such needed change. [...]But renewables aren't currently able to produce enough energy to allow an aristocracy, a bloated military-industrial complex, a massive control grid, and a fractional-reserve debt-based currency system in conjunction with common people having a decent living standard. It is the latter that the power elite are placing on the chopping block under the guise of "saving the planet", and the consumption of this elite by itself is so wasteful that it alone will suck this planet dry of resources and perhaps kill the biosphere outright over the course of this century.

I agree.

Or... we can make a better plan, radically cut birth rates, build public transit, permit sustainable neighborhood development, commit to clean efficient industries. I think this is the thing we know probably will not happen.

Failure to adapt will bring about civilization collapse.

Problem tho, is that capping population easy leads to the inverse as Japan, China and Russia show- the latter is facing a demographic collapse even before it sent all it's young male conscripts to fertilize Ukrainian farmland with their corpses, and now China can't house what population it has let alone stop loosing it's smartest to the West. Too few healthy workers and no needed project to keep sustaining yourself will be built (which I saw in 2020). You'll never pull a one-child policy here- and you'd never want to- so you're alternative is just reducing birth rates the good old fashioned way of making a good life, leading back to the whole "Man, frock the upper 1%" discussion.

Simple solution from a personal POV, just get out of Amerika now already a failed state,only getting worse.

No systemic solutions will be possible in the US, even bloody revolution will no longer be possible, and the 0.01% combined with fossil fuel / pharma / etc corporate oligarchy just won't follow JFK's advice.

So get out while you can.

Defeatist BS like this forgets that those oligarchs are just people with all the same weaknesses people have; In a funny way, the people most dead-set against them perpetuate a myth around them being so "above" normal people that it only increases their power. Meanwhile, stock ownership and options, deeds to homes and ownership, all of this is public knowledge with searchable websites and at worst, will require someone to own enough stock to get quarterly earnings reports from said corporations with board members listed in them. And if one watched in the openings of 2020, people like myself saw how they'd trip over themselves to get vaccinated first and were spending tens of millions on private security; just like people, they can be controlled by fear.
Havent you ever realized, that conservative propaganda always makes the Rich out to be a "higher" class of people? There's a reason :lol:

 

[Hillhater]

They are little more than demonstration sites , which cannot be replicated on a world scale.

I purposely omitted Scotland and California because it was either HH was gonna whine about 99% (Scotland) vs 100%, or he was gonna screech about population. Sun Shines, grass grows, and HH moves goalposts- ......

Pity you didnt mention them, ..i would simply pointed out thar without their electrical umbilical cords to ajoining countries and/or states feeding them fossil fuel power, they would both be sitting in the dark much or the time .
Goal posts ? Where /when do you believe i moved them ?
Can you come up with another realistic example of a “nation” self sufficient on RE ?

 

[The Toecutter]

If the situation was hopeless, their propaganda wouldn't be necessary. I've learned a lot about power in the last few years- especially in 2020- and one thing I've learned is the faster you go, the faster you make a new "normal". Power and speed be hands and feet, as Thoreau said.
You can thank the lack of a true left-wing here to Herbert Hoover of the FBI; that bastard alone likely set this nation back a century. My time protesting has showed me, that the alphabet agencies are really good at infiltrating any slightly-left group around (probably thanks to all their time spent undoing democracies in Latin America) and the lack of any natural leaders in BLM tell me they subverted it pretty damn quick. Studying other members of my generation... you'd really just have to encourage using old and outdated 1960s tactics, push the "personal fable" of every youth wanting to be a new civil rights leader, and encourage smaller cells instead of larger masses driven by common points. Divide and conquer is the name of the game; my local chapter got decimated in ONE police action and because it was made up of working class, just never recovered after they jailed all protestors for ~72 hours.

I'm not arguing the circumstances we find ourselves in are entirely hopeless. I am arguing that expecting necessary change to be the result of following a political system and political processes that have been subverted and repurposed to prevent that necessary change from ever occurring, is in fact not only hopeless, but counterproductive, and also congruent with Einstein's definition of insanity.

Much of the propaganda in the U.S. is dedicated to convincing people to pursue pre-approved and pre-curated "solutions" that lead to nowhere and solve nothing, but succeed greatly at dividing and distracting the public while increasing the oligarchs' control over said public. Herbert Hoover, Allen Dulles, Harry Anslinger, and their ilk were among the key architects of said propaganda, and it worked remarkably well, and still is in use and works to this day.

Part of the problem is that activists commonly insist on being pacifists and working within a system designed to prevent change and designed to ultimately marginalize or even exclude themselves from society, while the tyrants are willing and able to use an unlimited amount of violence against said activists to achieve their ends. One who never stands up to a bully, even out of self defense, shouldn't be surprised when the bully continues to bully them. The bullies have had nothing to fear because no one has actually fought them. The results speak for themselves.

This is part of the reason I feel that the United States is a powder keg waiting to blow. More than a century of necessary reform and change has been held back, and even acknowledging the cause of the malaise and acknowledging the necessary solution is widely considered taboo and is even "illegal" to this day in a nation that supposedly has the right to freedom of speech. Eventually that pendulum must swing back, very likely violently so, as it will function more like a compressed spring from being pressed to its limits for such a long duration. The alternative is for that pendulum to seize in place from abuse, and we end up with Orwell's future vision of "a boot stamping on the human face - for ever."

Defeatist BS like this forgets that those oligarchs are just people with all the same weaknesses people have;

There is one key difference: their wealth and privilege isolates them from the consequences of their actions whenever those consequences do not align with their interests. The consequences are instead dumped upon society as a whole. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses, has been the name of the game. Except for the rest of us, it's not really a game and adversely impacts our lives in every facet.

Meanwhile, stock ownership and options, deeds to homes and ownership, all of this is public knowledge with searchable websites and at worst, will require someone to own enough stock to get quarterly earnings reports from said corporations with board members listed in them.

You'll also need copious amounts of money for attorneys to help you navigate through endless lists of shell corporations and legalese used to hide assets from the public. The wealth that shows up within official statistics is virtually all that is available to the public for scrutiny. Lots of their stored wealth is hidden, possibly the majority of it.

 

[liveforphysics]

[youtube]vcrwvIKG_6I[/youtube]

I saw Cromotor axles being machined from barstock in person. Looked like a premium setup making premium parts to me.

 

[The Toecutter]

I saw Cromotor axles being machined from barstock in person. Looked like a premium setup making premium parts to me.

Nice. The Rimac office is right there too.

Are there any plan to make an updated CroMotor or a smaller variant?

 

[liveforphysics]

No idea what plans they may have. If they wanted to create the world's best hubmotor, they definitely have the tools and team and resources to do it.

 

[The Toecutter]

No idea what plans they may have. If they wanted to create the world's best hubmotor, they definitely have the tools and team and resources to do it.

We need a modern switched reluctance type that's small, light, and compact. That can fit modern 11+ speed cassettes in 135mm dropouts, and get > 95% peak and 90% typical. Maybe 6-8 lbs of hubmotor, plus the weight of the wheel it is built into.

A front-hub version of such a motor would also be nice for applications such as a 2WD full suspension MTB conversion for riding quickly in the street on bad roads, perhaps an AWD racing kart, or an AWD recumbent tadpole or delta trike. It would open up so many interesting new design possibilities for conversions made with mostly off the shelf parts.

Without the cogging losses, even having every wheel with a drivable hubmotor would still be pedalable to decent speed if the motors were temporarily disabled. But turn the motors on, and one could accelerate faster than most cars up to whatever the top speed is allowed by the conversion design. 15+ kW peak with AWD in a 2-wheeled fully-pedalable vehicle with a 130 kg laden weight without all of the noise and hassle of a mid-drive would be pretty damned retarded for any vehicle that can casually pass as a "bicycle" to the general public if no one is looking hard enough.

 

[The Toecutter]

Also, $4.59/gallon where I'm at. I see many vehicles around me that will go less than 20 miles for that gallon of gasoline.

For the cost of them to do 1 mile of travel, I can do more than 200 miles.

This is a very wasteful civilization.

One time last year, my charger was out of commission. I operated my vehicle with electric assist disabled, but regen enabled. During a 13 mile ride, I recovered 48 Wh from regen. That's roughly enough to maintain 30 mph for six miles. My rolling average during that ride was still more than 13 mph while pedaling through the motor's cogging losses, and I live in an area with lots of hills, lots of moderate 3-10% gradients, with lots of stops in the valleys. Over the next three days of riding, I was able to recover 1/5 of my battery through regen, enough for 30-40 miles of 30-35 mph riding. It wouldn't take a whole lot of solar panels to be independent from the electric grid for most of its EV mileage, either.

With better aerodynamics, easily 1/3-1/2 of my current energy consumption is attainable for the same riding speeds/conditions, even if the vehicle were to gain ~100 lbs and eliminate the bicycle drivetrain altogether(eg. a hyper-efficient single-person car). That kind of low mass vehicle would open up some interesting performance possibilities, which for something that costs next to nothing to operate, would give it a lot of appeal.

As long at there remains a way to build practical ebikes in the U.S., and they aren't enforced out of existence via applied legislation, there will remain a way to have individual enclosed rapid transit at an affordable cost for almost everyone, even in the most energy starved future scenarios. The option to adapt, at least in this one facet of our existence, will be there, even if cars as we know them today become affordable to only the upper 1%. Whether humanity takes this option in some form will remain to be seen, but those unfortunate enough to still live in the crackerbox parasite colonies(very likely the worst ghettos of the future), will probably still have an option to get around. Technology isn't really an issue with that today. In fact, individual transportation of this sort may even take different forms altogether in the form of new flying or amphibious vehicles, which will gradually be made possible as battery technology advances.

But in the scenario where industrial civilization collapses outright, as Ted Kaczynski predicted it would, it would be difficult keeping unpowered bicycles on the road after a number of decades, let alone electric bicycles, let alone the normal full-sized cars/trucks/SUVs that are today ubiquitous. In order to prevent such a collapse, it is imperative that the available resources are used very wisely. Currently, these resources are being squandered, and by doing so, saturating the planet with pollution, in turn reducing its habitability.

 

[Chalo]

During a 13 mile ride, I recovered 48 Wh from regen. That's roughly enough to maintain 30 mph for six miles.

For me, that's about 1.2 miles at 20ish mph but with some stops. That's what counts for me, because I would never fit into your streamliner. And nobody else is going to make one to fit me. And if I built one myself and included the time and expense to build it, it would instantly become my slowest, highest cost per mile bike.

Regular bikes aren't just efficient ways to transport yourself. They're efficient industrially, space-efficient, materials efficient, comparatively long-lasting, low in mental overhead, with layered economies of scale. If all you look at is aero efficiency, you miss those things. For most people, a streamliner would never amortize and catch up to a bike.

 

[calab]

I prefer a good rhythmic pedal stroke to some beat in my head phones for 4 miles of endless tarmac only looking at the bumps ahead and seeing zero people, fuckI love it.

But, I do love the smell of diesel for the first morning breath of cool forest air on a triple.

 

[The Toecutter]

For me, that's about 1.2 miles at 20ish mph but with some stops. That's what counts for me, because I would never fit into your streamliner. And nobody else is going to make one to fit me. And if I built one myself and included the time and expense to build it, it would instantly become my slowest, highest cost per mile bike.

Regular bikes aren't just efficient ways to transport yourself. They're efficient industrially, space-efficient, materials efficient, comparatively long-lasting, low in mental overhead, with layered economies of scale. If all you look at is aero efficiency, you miss those things. For most people, a streamliner would never amortize and catch up to a bike.

If one must use their build for as many miles as the average person uses a car, financially, such a conveyance starts to make a lot of sense. Especially if inclement weather is an issue. My KMX and all of the subsequent mods have certainly paid for themselves, but I'm one of those psychos who uses my build as one would use a car.

You might fit in a Milan MX. Seriously. And if you determined that you could fit in it and electrified it, you will have to use it for a lot more miles than you'd probably ever have a use case for to justify the expense. But that is within the current paradigm of these vehicles being hand-built and expensive, just as Penny Farthing bicycles and the first "safety" bicycles were in the late 19th century. My Milan SL will likely never pay for itself.

Whenever most of the cost of producing something is measured in labor and not raw materials, the potential to make the cost approach that of its raw materials exists, which then becomes a function of its production/sales volume as production processes are automated to reduce the need for labor and to allow mass production.

If streamlined trikes and quads ever saw economies of scale to bring the cost down, they'd make sense for a lot more people. Energy efficiency opens up more applications and options regarding how we use resources. For a light electric vehicle that is used for as many miles as a car is typically used, the amount of energy it consumes over its usable life span will greatly exceed the energy used to produce it. And this is why aerodynamics really matters.

For those who will need a car replacement in a scenario where operating/owning cars becomes practically cost-prohibitive for most Americans, this idea would make even more sense.

 

[speedmd]

New Miata class EV starting @ $13,000USD. this year. Faster Long range awd @ $22000. Qiantu K20, preorders get lifetime warrantee!

 

[CONSIDERABLE SHOUTING]

New Miata class EV starting @ $13,000USD. this year. Faster Long range awd @ $22000. Qiantu K20, preorders get lifetime warrantee!

Electrek has an article on it- their prior car failed apparently, and they had to undergo some kind of "reorganization". 1,700lbs tho is super interesting if true, but the fact it can do battery swapping implies it has no refrigeration or liquid cooling of it's cells.

https://electrek.co/2022/06/06/qiantu-k20-two-seat-electric-car/

 

[fechter]

It's over $7.00/gal for premium here. Even higher for diesel. We are totally getting ripped off. Somebody is making a LOT of money. I also suspect there is a political component to the price gouging. Somebody wants to make the Democrats look bad. Hmmm, who could that be? I've seen this pattern several times before.

Luckily, I don't need to commute to work anymore since I retired, so my weekly mileage has dropped way down.

Even with sky high prices, I still see a lot of huge, gas guzzling trucks and SUVs flooring it at every light and carrying only one person.

 

[qwerkus]

Even with sky high prices, I still see a lot of huge, gas guzzling trucks and SUVs flooring it at every light and carrying only one person.

Same here. Less Trucks because it's Europe but man, all those huge SUVs with only 1 person inside. The same person that will complain non stop over gas prices whenever you meet...

 

[JackFlorey]

Same here. Less Trucks because it's Europe but man, all those huge SUVs with only 1 person inside. The same person that will complain non stop over gas prices whenever you meet...

Yep. I'll believe gas is way too expensive when people actually start driving the speed limit instead of 20mph over it.

 

[Quinc]

We need to go Nuclear, its cleaner, cheaper, the only renewable energy source and better in every way.

Cool, we'll ship the waste to your place, then.

"Cleaner" my ass.

Lots of info out there showing how it compares to other resources and it is much cleaner.

Ted talk on it with graphs etc. There is an island with a 1000ft bunker they store the waste in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZXUR4z2P9w

 

[Quinc]

It's over $7.00/gal for premium here. Even higher for diesel. We are totally getting ripped off. Somebody is making a LOT of money. I also suspect there is a political component to the price gouging. Somebody wants to make the Democrats look bad. Hmmm, who could that be? I've seen this pattern several times before.

Luckily, I don't need to commute to work anymore since I retired, so my weekly mileage has dropped way down.

Even with sky high prices, I still see a lot of huge, gas guzzling trucks and SUVs flooring it at every light and carrying only one person.

Both our current governor and prior governor come from big oil families and are responsible for the closing of California's power plants. Ask yourself why big oil spends millions supporting and promoting solar and wind while also spending millions on anti nuclear propaganda.

 

[slaphappygamer]

Seeing $6.67 a gallon in Monterey. Really happy I’m riding my ebike to get to, and from, work. This the reason I got an ebike, but now I’m hooked. I feel dirty when I drive.

 

[liveforphysics]

The thing is, we already have this phenomenal thermo-nuclear fusion reactor in the sky, with shielding to protect from most of the dangerous radiation in our upper atmosphere. It has a great track record of continuous 173,000TW (Tera-Watts) hitting earth, and its maintained nearly (solar eclipse occasionally) 24-7 365 uptime for at least millions of years powering life on earth.

Such a small amount of the surface of earth needs to be solar panels to entirely supply all the world's energy.

It would be a heck of a project, and you wouldn't want it all in one location of course, each country could use local areas that are perhaps high altitude to avoid clouds or in desert areas. It takes building solar farms by the square mile, and the infrastructure on site to store it in warehouse sized batteries and inverter banks to supply the grid clean power 24-7.

It seems like a lot of work, but it's so much cheaper and easier than trying to replace or fix a toxic atmosphere.

 

[Hillhater]

The thing is, we already have this phenomenal thermo-nuclear fusion reactor in the sky, with shielding to protect from most of the dangerous radiation in our upper atmosphere. It has a great track record of continuous 173,000TW (Tera-Watts) hitting earth, and its maintained nearly (solar eclipse occasionally) 24-7 365 uptime for at least millions of years powering life on earth.

Such a small amount of the surface of earth needs to be solar panels to entirely supply all the world's energy.


It would be a heck of a project, and you wouldn't want it all in one location of course, each country could use local areas that are perhaps high altitude to avoid clouds or in desert areas. It takes building solar farms by the square mile, and the infrastructure on site to store it in warehouse sized batteries and inverter banks to supply the grid clean power 24-7.

It seems like a lot of work, but it's so much cheaper and easier than trying to replace or fix a toxic atmosphere.

Hmm?... sounds good if only the earth would stop rotating so that any continent could recieve that sun power for more than 30% of the time, and avoid the need for an impractical amount of storage to provide a continuous supply..
And also providing you can ignor the pollution and environmental destruction that results from the sourcing of materials and manufacturing of those PV panels etc.
I will take Nuclear as the only workable, low emission, solution currently viable.

 

[liveforphysics]

We can agree to disagree that the energy storage is impractical my friend.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12274-018-2139-0

Sodium Iron Phosphate batteries work and cycle well with very low electrolyte stresses for long calendar life at high temps.

They don't have anything rare or expensive inside them, we can make costco-sized warehouses of them and keep building them.

The alternative is much less pleasant than a scaled manufacturing challenge to solve.

 

[slaphappygamer]

Saw another station around the corner. $6.87 for regular!

My car, Mazda3 Hatchback, gets about 28 mpg. That’s what I bike in a week, commuting to work. Each week I ride my bike, I save 1 gallon of gas. I really try to NOT drive.

 

[neptronix]

We can agree to disagree that the energy storage is impractical my friend.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12274-018-2139-0

Sodium Iron Phosphate batteries work and cycle well with very low electrolyte stresses for long calendar life at high temps.

They don't have anything rare or expensive inside them, we can make costco-sized warehouses of them and keep building them.

The alternative is much less pleasant than a scaled manufacturing challenge to solve.

That's awesome. Apparently CATL is going to be producing some in 2023. How did i not know about this?

Wikipedia says: