GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

hi guys
I replaced the primary side chain to #25H from the stock T8( I believe that is the name of that chain), and noticed the chain naturally is a lot thinner.
Since there is a large size difference between the 2 chains, would the 25H be any weaker considering how much smaller it is??
Thanks
 
Since there is a large size difference between the 2 chains, would the 25H be any weaker considering how much smaller it is
Click to expand...

The strength of the metal also plays a big part. It is possible to find high-quality and strong 8mm chain, and of course you can find weak #25. That being said, the #25H (H = heavy duty), should be very strong and when used in the high-RPM half of the reduction (high speed / low torque), each link is less loaded than in the secondary (lower speed / higher torque).
 
spinningmagnets said:
Since there is a large size difference between the 2 chains, would the 25H be any weaker considering how much smaller it is
Click to expand...

The strength of the metal also plays a big part. It is possible to find high-quality and strong 8mm chain, and of course you can find weak #25. That being said, the #25H (H = heavy duty), should be very strong and when used in the high-RPM half of the reduction (high speed / low torque), each link is less loaded than in the secondary (lower speed / higher torque).
Click to expand...

Hi there
So you mean that a 25h chain on the primary should be strong on the primary more than a 25h chain on the secondary right side??
 
Hi guys,

First post here and long time lurker on endless sphere, I want to thank you all for the great feedback you provide here !

I planned to build a 29" carbon commuter with a 500W BBS02 mid drive but I have the parts in front of me and my bottom bracket is too thick for the Bafang. Clearance between the motor shell and crank axle shell (13mm) is not wide enough. The BBS can't slide in because the motor shell is hitting my bottom bracket. I measured 16mm from inside BB to the outer. A few mm I can't do anything against are screwing me. I want to stick with a mid drive build so here I am, trying to find another mid drive that would suit.

How much clearance do you have between the gng motor shell and your bottom bracket outer shell ? Seeing the GNG shell make me think I will be able to grind some fins if needed.

Thanks
 
a 25h chain on the primary should be strong on the primary more than a 25h chain on the secondary right side?
Click to expand...

The #25H chain is plenty strong for either side, the reason #25H is preferred is because it is reasonably affordable, and the small distance between the links (the chain "pitch") means a sprocket with a given number of teeth will be smaller in #25, compared to the larger-link bicycle chain.

Imagine the large sprocket on the primary side is a given diameter (the largest that will fit). If the smaller driven sprocket has a large pitch, there will be less reduction (more reduction ratio is better). So...if the large sprocket is the same size (whether using #25H or bicycle chain), the small sprocket can be much smaller if using a small pitch chain. Also, there is a noticeable improvement in the amount of noise the chain will make if the smaller sprocket has at least 11T (the phenomenon is called the "polygonal effect", I believe). An 11T #25 sprocket is smaller than an 11T bicycle sprocket. (I have seen 6T, 7T, and 9T sprockets to achieve more reduction, but they have proven to be very noisy)

#25H is plenty strong for either one of the reductions (primary or secondary). It is convenient for the secondary to be bicycle chain, because the crankset is already set-up to accept multiple bicycle sprockets, but some custom drives have been made with small-pitch chain on either/both reductions.

The secondary experiences more torque than the primary reduction.
 
Http://s27.postimg.org/i49esss83/20140822_161733.jpg

Thx spinningmagnets for the info!

Here is my 25h chain and sprockets..sorry the pic is sideways

Its loose but without LR brackets its impossible to remove a link or modify with a half link
Im not sure if I should ride it like this or not
 
spinningmagnets said:
I'm afraid that chain will jump the sprocket and get jammed inbetween them (or fly off into the air at high speed). You need an idler wheel on the bottom half. Look at the idler types in the first few pics in this thread:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46738
Click to expand...


Oh darn....
Is there a particular tensioner that you recommend?
There are a few on that link you posted

There are some mounting holes around the sprockets which is good
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di3pluXule0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Oh this one looks the cleanest and easiest

Does anyone know if that person is a member on here??
 
speedmd said:
Does anyone know if the stock motor uses a 60 or 120 degree hall phase angle. I can find no information in the thread on it and not sure how best to verify this.
Click to expand...

60 degree i believe.

Wishes
 
Is there a particular controller(s) that work exceptionally well with the gng motor besides the stock controller???
 
ebike11 said:
Is there a particular controller(s) that work exceptionally well with the gng motor besides the stock controller???
Click to expand...

Particularly well? As long as they are 60 degree hal sensor controllers, they should work all the same. What will change the feel is the throttle you use and the amps a given controller pushes through it.

But my experience is limited when it comes to these motors and controllers. I've only ever used the stock controllers or Lyen's controllers on these.

Wishes
 
Is there a particular controller(s) that work exceptionally well with the gng motor besides the stock controller???
Click to expand...

I'm wondering about this also as I don't get the same acceleration on my LR kit using a EM3EV controller than I used to on my Mac motor with the same wattage drawn. I thought the GNG and LR motor are the same motor.

From the LR thread:

I asked the same question of Ed Lyen, the controller wizard, and here is his response: "From what I have learned, the BMC controller is designed to work with motors that is equipped with 60 degree hall sensor spacing angle, including the BMC V1, V2-S, V2-T, V3, V4-T, and V4-S. Whereas the Lightning Rod mid-drive motor utilize the 120 degree hall sensor spacing angle. The BMC controller's spacing angle is fixed. Therefore, it is considered incompatible." Sorry, I was hoping to use my BMC controller on the mid-drive kit, also.
Click to expand...

If the LR kit uses the same motor, then Lyen says it is a 120 degree motor which means the BMC (and likely the Mac motor as I think these are very similar motors) are 60 degree motors. Perhaps this means that EM3EV controllers are not compatible either and thus my slower acceleration??
 
I just got one of these testers and it says it can test for it, but not understanding the instructions fully yet on the 60 /120 test. Anyone know for certain how to do this?

$_35.JPG
 
givitago said:
Is there a particular controller(s) that work exceptionally well with the gng motor besides the stock controller???
Click to expand...

I'm wondering about this also as I don't get the same acceleration on my LR kit using a EM3EV controller than I used to on my Mac motor with the same wattage drawn. I thought the GNG and LR motor are the same motor.

From the LR thread:

I asked the same question of Ed Lyen, the controller wizard, and here is his response: "From what I have learned, the BMC controller is designed to work with motors that is equipped with 60 degree hall sensor spacing angle, including the BMC V1, V2-S, V2-T, V3, V4-T, and V4-S. Whereas the Lightning Rod mid-drive motor utilize the 120 degree hall sensor spacing angle. The BMC controller's spacing angle is fixed. Therefore, it is considered incompatible." Sorry, I was hoping to use my BMC controller on the mid-drive kit, also.
Click to expand...

If the LR kit uses the same motor, then Lyen says it is a 120 degree motor which means the BMC (and likely the Mac motor as I think these are very similar motors) are 60 degree motors. Perhaps this means that EM3EV controllers are not compatible either and thus my slower acceleration??
Click to expand...

Another difference between 1 controller and the other, is the Phase amps. That will have a huge impact on the acceleration. It is hard coded in most controllers, Lyen's controllers can be programmed. Well the infeneon line of controllers can have their phase amps adjusted. But not all controllers can.


Wishes
 
givitago said:
Is there a particular controller(s) that work exceptionally well with the gng motor besides the stock controller???
Click to expand...

I'm wondering about this also as I don't get the same acceleration on my LR kit using a EM3EV controller than I used to on my Mac motor with the same wattage drawn. I thought the GNG and LR motor are the same motor.

From the LR thread:

I asked the same question of Ed Lyen, the controller wizard, and here is his response: "From what I have learned, the BMC controller is designed to work with motors that is equipped with 60 degree hall sensor spacing angle, including the BMC V1, V2-S, V2-T, V3, V4-T, and V4-S. Whereas the Lightning Rod mid-drive motor utilize the 120 degree hall sensor spacing angle. The BMC controller's spacing angle is fixed. Therefore, it is considered incompatible." Sorry, I was hoping to use my BMC controller on the mid-drive kit, also.
Click to expand...

If the LR kit uses the same motor, then Lyen says it is a 120 degree motor which means the BMC (and likely the Mac motor as I think these are very similar motors) are 60 degree motors. Perhaps this means that EM3EV controllers are not compatible either and thus my slower acceleration??
Click to expand...

And unless i'm mistaken, the em3v controllers are infineon controllers. Same ones Lyen uses to build his.

Wishes
 
Wishes said:
And unless i'm mistaken, the em3v controllers are infineon controllers. Same ones Lyen uses to build his.
Click to expand...

Yes, they are. I checked my MAC with that tester above (by plugging it in to the motor phases and see if the 60 degree light turns on) and it is 120 degree. Also, I noticed in the docs for the programming software that there is a setting for phase angle of 60, 120 and auto. I guess it should be compatible, but perhaps this controller wants to be tuned differently for this motor vs a Mac motor ( higher phase amps perhaps).
 
Hello friend here send news of Portugal, two years after purchasing my kit GNG and after many problems were many reseovidos by several fans of this project, in which I highlight and May Our dear friend Mike as a great man who desenvoveu this system as only he knows how to do, I decided to also make my completely new system using only the motor and the primary suport GNG, I am using aluminum to make my kit.
I've done several tests with this kit and have not had menhum type of fault, the fact that to put together the crank sprocket which makes it much more reliable, a week of very extensive tests, 0 failures, this kit is not my version end, because I am already preparing one in which the engine is more powerful, about 1100vts and the controller is next to the engine, style Ego Kit, will be a clean installation without cables in sight, just a lot of power
 

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Nice work. I like how everything is tucked in and compact. I too have been experimenting with a similar idler on the primary chain. More or a wrap, as you have done not only is a better transmission of power, but it much quieter. I also like the nod to the EGO kit. That is what first steered me to a mid drive.
 
Very well-done Muapeia! It is a little similar to the build by _Tommy_, http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=42785&start=3075#p845071

Your variation puts the jackshaft near the BB axle, so it could be used in a "crossbreak style" drive. In this pic below, the motor is where I envision the jackshaft to be located (jackshaft just in front of the BB). The jackshaft would connect the motor/BB/rear-wheel-chain.

file.php
 
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