dnmun
1 PW
was the controller powered up by the batteries while you were charging when the chargers went out?
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Heavy cargo hauler project
- Thread starter Cargo_Tom
- Start date
Cargo_Tom
100 W
Not during the initial failed charging cycle, no. I cant remember the subsequent sequence exactly tbh. I did switch the system on and off a couple of times when changing the first few charger fuses, to check that Something would power on at least.
It was definitely connected to the battery lead for the initial "what the hell is going on" phase before I posted about it here. Since something is amiss I would venture to think that I have probably neglected to turn it off during one of the first couple of fuse reblowing tests.
Thanks
-Tom
It was definitely connected to the battery lead for the initial "what the hell is going on" phase before I posted about it here. Since something is amiss I would venture to think that I have probably neglected to turn it off during one of the first couple of fuse reblowing tests.
Thanks
-Tom
jkbrigman
10 kW
Tom - the symptoms you report are analogous to another thread here on E-S in which the result was mistakenly switched phase leads. I'm sorry, I can't cite the thread right now, it was one of those late-night reads, but I thought I should quickly comment since if what I'm saying is true, it could be an ultra-cheap fix. Please view my comment as suspect since I can't cite, but still, I wanted to put the thought out there for consideration.
JKB
JKB
dnmun
1 PW
maybe you gonna get a greentime controller too.
why did you decide to go to 72V if you are mostly on relatively slow speed tracks?
the 9C would do 28kph i thought on 36V. especially since your packs are so wide. is that an option?
seems like you just got covered in mosquitoes from the start. you,me, and everybody i know is having bad luck.
why did you decide to go to 72V if you are mostly on relatively slow speed tracks?
the 9C would do 28kph i thought on 36V. especially since your packs are so wide. is that an option?
seems like you just got covered in mosquitoes from the start. you,me, and everybody i know is having bad luck.
Cargo_Tom
100 W
dnmun said:
I got the 2812 slow wound motor, and settled on upping the voltage to get my preferred cruising speed. Real life exceeds the simulator approximation because I never see voltage numbers as low as the nominal voltage on the road. My battery pack is overkill, but I prefer overbuilding to the alternative.
dnmun said:
Yeah tell me about it. My Weller soldering iron died on me yesterday
As I need to let my slushfund recharge a little (I just ordered a replacement controller from justin) im stuck with my backup nobrand POS 40w soldering iron for awhile.C'est la vie
Cargo_Tom
100 W
Controller update:
I have identified a mosfet short somewhere in the first bank of the damaged controller. Since my beloved weller is dead, A family member with access to a soldering station has taken the controller to have the first bank removed. He will hopefully be able to do diagnostics on the weller, so we can get that up and running again.
With any luck the mosfet fix will be enough. Time will tell
Thanks for reading
-Tom
I have identified a mosfet short somewhere in the first bank of the damaged controller. Since my beloved weller is dead, A family member with access to a soldering station has taken the controller to have the first bank removed. He will hopefully be able to do diagnostics on the weller, so we can get that up and running again.
With any luck the mosfet fix will be enough. Time will tell
Thanks for reading
-Tom
dogman dan
1 PW
HOLY crap, you must be getting a tad frustrated by now. That's the shits your controller blew, normally charging a battery with the controller plugged in is not that big a deal. I just unplug because that's my switch. I'm too electonicly dumb to even imagine how that happened or why. To me it seems impossible. Random shit?
I think I know how you feel, though my noob ebike stuff was not quite as big a deal.
First motor kit comes with 3 slas for 36v and a "high quality" soneil charger that only output 18v. Seller sending replacement, meanwhile charging one by one at 12v. Charged up now, I bolt the wheel on a bike, and proceed to spin the axlel, cut the wires, and blow the controller in the first half mile.
So day one, Cut wires, ruined fork, ruined controller, and defect charger. But that first half mile had me stoked! Wife's giving me the you dumbass look, but I don't care. Her bike I wrecked, since the schwinn trike hadn't arrived yet.
Glad to hear your 2812 motor climbs your hill just fine when it does work. I knew it would. You ever see a clyte rear 5306 or 5305 for sale buy it!
I think I know how you feel, though my noob ebike stuff was not quite as big a deal.
First motor kit comes with 3 slas for 36v and a "high quality" soneil charger that only output 18v. Seller sending replacement, meanwhile charging one by one at 12v. Charged up now, I bolt the wheel on a bike, and proceed to spin the axlel, cut the wires, and blow the controller in the first half mile.
So day one, Cut wires, ruined fork, ruined controller, and defect charger. But that first half mile had me stoked! Wife's giving me the you dumbass look, but I don't care. Her bike I wrecked, since the schwinn trike hadn't arrived yet.
Glad to hear your 2812 motor climbs your hill just fine when it does work. I knew it would. You ever see a clyte rear 5306 or 5305 for sale buy it!
jkbrigman
10 kW
Cargo_Tom said:Controller update:
I have identified a mosfet short somewhere in the first bank of the damaged controller.....With any luck the mosfet fix will be enough. Time will tell
Damb! Tom, sorry to hear that but congratulations, finding the problem is no small deal. (I sure wish it had only been swapped phases.
)We're all pulling for you to get a rapid repair and back on the road ASAP. THANK YOU for posting the information about what happened in a clear and understandable way. I think that could be the story we all have, except through dumb luck of how we naturally disconnect the batteries and reconnect to charger.
Also: when you get back up and running, looks like there's a new kid in town - you can kick kwh in his scrawny face
:www.urbanarrow.com
JKB
dnmun
1 PW
do not use the two wire 240V to power your new chargers from ping like i said. i am gonna email ping and warn him now too, just sent a warning to jimmyD.
you have to make certain you have a ground on the ground lug of the three pronged plug or this will happen again with these universal input chargers. this is what killed your controller too i bet.
you had twice the normal voltage on the input section so it was pumping out really high voltages to the battery while charging. that i think is what killed the controller while it was connected.
you have to make certain you have a ground on the ground lug of the three pronged plug or this will happen again with these universal input chargers. this is what killed your controller too i bet.
you had twice the normal voltage on the input section so it was pumping out really high voltages to the battery while charging. that i think is what killed the controller while it was connected.
Cargo_Tom
100 W
Update: The bike is up and running again with a new controller. Yay.
After four miles and just shy of 20mph the coaster brake torque arm ripped free of the frame, mangled the beefy steel mudguard and almost wrecked the rear wheel. I managed to skid to a halt and was thus unharmed. It took me half an hour to untangle fender from the rear wheel. But I did manage to drive home just fine without using the pedals :lol:
Apart from the totalled fender and coaster brake clamp the bike is fine.
Tomorrow I will be investing in a SS U-bolt to reattach the coaster brake torque arm to the frame.
I should have strengthened that attachment point from the get-go as it would totally have made sense. Never gave it a thought, before today.
Live and learn, eh
After four miles and just shy of 20mph the coaster brake torque arm ripped free of the frame, mangled the beefy steel mudguard and almost wrecked the rear wheel. I managed to skid to a halt and was thus unharmed. It took me half an hour to untangle fender from the rear wheel. But I did manage to drive home just fine without using the pedals :lol:
Apart from the totalled fender and coaster brake clamp the bike is fine.
Tomorrow I will be investing in a SS U-bolt to reattach the coaster brake torque arm to the frame.
I should have strengthened that attachment point from the get-go as it would totally have made sense. Never gave it a thought, before today.
Live and learn, eh
Chalo
100 TW
For whatever reason, the anchor straps that come with drum brakes are much stronger and more substantial than the ones that come with coaster brakes. To me, that's funny because coaster brakes are usually more powerful and abrupt in how they apply torque.
Anyway, you could replace the anchor strap with one from a drum brake.
Chalo
P.S. - I suppose you already know this, but when the coaster arm breaks loose, it loosens the hub bearings. If you haven't checked the hub for free play, be sure to do so before you get back on the road.
Anyway, you could replace the anchor strap with one from a drum brake.
Chalo
P.S. - I suppose you already know this, but when the coaster arm breaks loose, it loosens the hub bearings. If you haven't checked the hub for free play, be sure to do so before you get back on the road.
Cargo_Tom
100 W
Chalo said:
Thank you for the heads up. I'll check up on it
-Tom
jkbrigman
10 kW
Cargo_Tom said:Update: The bike is up and running again with a new controller. Yay.
(...misc. agony here... ) Apart from the totalled fender and coaster brake clamp the bike is fine.
Tomorrow I will be investing in a SS U-bolt to reattach the coaster brake torque arm to the frame.
learn, eh
Tom, how's things coming with repairs? Were you able to find a suitable stainless steel U-bolt?
JKB
Cargo_Tom
100 W
Repairs are done. No ubolt yet, but I have a buddy of mine rummaging through his workshop for something suitable. I bought a replacement achor strap, and added an extra SS hose clamp until a permanent fix can be found.
I also discovered a local bike shop that carries original long john spare parts. The bike shop opened in 1883 and oozes with history and vintage bikes and parts.
As a bonus he services the mechanicals of the local Postal Service ebike fleet, including its 50 tadpole cargo ebikes. Apparently he has to rebuild their wheels frequently, as the standard rims and spokes are not up to the tasks of hauling hundreds of pounds of mail every single day. No such problems with the old long johns, as they use moped spec wheels and drivetrain components.
He wanted to check out my bike, and liked what he saw He then told me to come see him for spare parts, as he has tons of postal ebike odds and ends, as well as anything else I might fancy.
Next time I show up I want to see if I can get my hands on a used postal rear motor hub. They looked beefy as hell, and might have potential, when fed some proper power
I also discovered a local bike shop that carries original long john spare parts. The bike shop opened in 1883 and oozes with history and vintage bikes and parts.
As a bonus he services the mechanicals of the local Postal Service ebike fleet, including its 50 tadpole cargo ebikes. Apparently he has to rebuild their wheels frequently, as the standard rims and spokes are not up to the tasks of hauling hundreds of pounds of mail every single day. No such problems with the old long johns, as they use moped spec wheels and drivetrain components.
He wanted to check out my bike, and liked what he saw
He then told me to come see him for spare parts, as he has tons of postal ebike odds and ends, as well as anything else I might fancy.Next time I show up I want to see if I can get my hands on a used postal rear motor hub. They looked beefy as hell, and might have potential, when fed some proper power
jkbrigman
10 kW
Cargo_Tom said:
Whoa...their postal service uses ebikes? Sounds to me like there's something the US Postal Service could learn from.
Cargo_Tom
100 W
Our postal cargo ebikes are modified Nihola bikes. The rear hub apparently has solid drum brakes built in.
Weedy kid carrier wheels break often.
Weedy kid carrier wheels break often.
arkmundi
10 MW
Just want to ditto this! There's a compromise between speed & torque, as you well know. I went for the latter to get my fat ass up hills in my locality. After considering the options, I got the 500 watt Heinzmann hub, because its geared and could provide the torque. It was the right choice. For your situation, I'd recommend more like a 1000 watt geared motor. Bestkmxtornado said:
Chalo
100 TW
Gear them down low enough, and internally geared hubs break sooner and more catastrophically than multi-speed freewheels or cassettes. They have to be kept within their torque limits, which can be a problem for cargo bikes operated in hilly places.
Internally geared hubs can work well for cargo haulers if they are used as jackshafts, with much of the total reduction in the final drive.
Chalo
Internally geared hubs can work well for cargo haulers if they are used as jackshafts, with much of the total reduction in the final drive.
Chalo
jkbrigman
10 kW
Hey Cargo_Tom - How are things are going with the bike! Most interested in how the electric drivetrain is handling the loads.
Cargo_Tom
100 W
Howdy folks.
I entered winter hiatus on a low note, as my end of season battery woes remain unresolved.
As a result I havent ridden the bike since december. I moved the batteries indoors, put a tarp over the bike in the unheated garage, and have been checking the cell voltages religiously through the winter.
One 36v20ah battery is fine. No issues.
The other battery got a fried BMS charge circuit, most likely due to an unintended series/parallel short. The batteries are connected in series when riding, and in parallel when charging. My father in law inadvertently drenched the battery compartment with a pressure washer. the thinking cap was NOT on straight when I found out.
Anyways. I tried repairing the BMS with help from ES members. No dice, so ordered a replacement BMS from ping. After replacing the BMS I was able to recharge ONCE before the problem reappeared :/ Every cell is resting at 3.305v +/- 0.003v atm.
I have no clue how to go about diagnosing it from here, but I will start recharging the cells individually over the weekend to give the battery a little exercise. I am tempted to order a new battery from Ping and be done with it. I am also working on a series/parallel relay switch to reduce the chance of human error. And I will need to add some fuses somewhere.
Steep learning curve in this hobby
I entered winter hiatus on a low note, as my end of season battery woes remain unresolved.
As a result I havent ridden the bike since december. I moved the batteries indoors, put a tarp over the bike in the unheated garage, and have been checking the cell voltages religiously through the winter.
One 36v20ah battery is fine. No issues.
The other battery got a fried BMS charge circuit, most likely due to an unintended series/parallel short. The batteries are connected in series when riding, and in parallel when charging. My father in law inadvertently drenched the battery compartment with a pressure washer. the thinking cap was NOT on straight when I found out.
Anyways. I tried repairing the BMS with help from ES members. No dice, so ordered a replacement BMS from ping. After replacing the BMS I was able to recharge ONCE before the problem reappeared :/ Every cell is resting at 3.305v +/- 0.003v atm.
I have no clue how to go about diagnosing it from here, but I will start recharging the cells individually over the weekend to give the battery a little exercise. I am tempted to order a new battery from Ping and be done with it. I am also working on a series/parallel relay switch to reduce the chance of human error. And I will need to add some fuses somewhere.
Steep learning curve in this hobby
I'm so glad i never had to deal with BMSes. They seem like they cause more problems than they solve.
The ping battery BMS can even drain cell #1 down to 0v over just a winter's worth of sitting. That's killed a lot of ping batteries. Plenty of other Chinese batteries are designed in that stupid fashion as well!
The ping battery BMS can even drain cell #1 down to 0v over just a winter's worth of sitting. That's killed a lot of ping batteries. Plenty of other Chinese batteries are designed in that stupid fashion as well!
SamTexas
1 MW
May be I missed it. What is the problem that reappeared? Every cells is resting at 3.305v?Cargo_Tom said:
Cargo_Tom
100 W
SamTexas said:
Unable to charge through bms. I can discharge (ride) just fine, but when I plug in the charger nothing happens. even after charging for 48hrs, not a single millivolt change in any of the cells.
In a nutshell this is what happened.
1) series/parallel short between 2 identical ping batteries. Blown xlr charge plugs. Blown charge fets on bms of one battery.
2) replace plugs and bms, battery charges successfully. yay.
3) after the commute the next day I plug in the charger again. Only the undamaged battery charges sucessfully.
4) Do a continuity check, recheck all connectors and bms solder joints. Let sit in charger for 2 days with no luck.
5) disconnect everything. Enter winter hibernation.
6) as of today, the cells in the damaged battery pack sit at 3.3v each. still wont receive charge.
SamTexas
1 MW
Hmm... I assume you have already verified that the charger is functioning and is not the problem. So the only thing left is the BMS. You could try to swap the BMS but that would be a lot of work.
Have you tried to bypass the BMS? That is connecting the charger directly to the battery terminal (you don't have to remove the BMS). Do that for 10 mins or so and see if the battery voltage goes up.
Have you tried to bypass the BMS? That is connecting the charger directly to the battery terminal (you don't have to remove the BMS). Do that for 10 mins or so and see if the battery voltage goes up.
dnmun
1 PW
measure the gate voltage of the charging mosfet and the output mosfets. that will tell you is they are turned on.
if they are not turned on we can walk you through how to determine which channel has shut them off.
i just destroyed a battery by discharging without a BMS, spaced it out and now it is blown up like an accordion. damn, whatta lotta money down the drain.
if they are not turned on we can walk you through how to determine which channel has shut them off.
i just destroyed a battery by discharging without a BMS, spaced it out and now it is blown up like an accordion. damn, whatta lotta money down the drain.
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