High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

Honestly i'd like to cut the tubes off the Jekyll frame and use them for any of these purposes:
1. Safety structure?
2. Partial Aerodynamic structure?
3. Structure for storage?

I just think it would be cool to implement bits of a similarly framed and colored bike into the design of this one some how and have it look like a stock freak bike.
 
Frame's here.

Omg it's a piece of art and i'm tempted to take this rear 18" motorcycle wheel i'm putting together and stick it on this and make a e-dirtbike instead :lol:

Seriously how could i not, and maybe find another cheaper donor :lol:
 

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neptronix said:
Frame's here.

Omg it's a piece of art and i'm tempted to take this rear 18" motorcycle wheel i'm putting together and stick it on this and make a e-dirtbike instead :lol:

Seriously how could i not, and maybe find another cheaper donor :lol:
Click to expand...

Fab a longtail swingarm and make a squooshy cargo bike!
 
For a FS, there's a lot of room in that (not quite a) triangle, a definite plus.

Have you ever ridden a headshok? I have one, wouldn't classify it as "squooshy ." It was a good option in its day (strong and lightweight), but telescoping fork performance has long surpassed it.
 
The Cannondale has a headshok and the front end rode quite well. Not that the front really needs excellent suspension anyway.
I do think many of Cannondale's suspension designs are unnecessarily contrarian and goofy.. but goddamn if the older frames aren't great designs, both aesthetically and mechanically.

I have some great news and hopefully this is useful to anyone with a cannondale bent/easy rider in the future. The ~2002 Jekyll swingarm is a complete match in every measurable dimension.

IMG_20210529_165350453.jpg

The only noticeable difference is that there's a bit more metal on the disc side of the rear dropout. That's it.
 
Ok, back from the bike shop. They're fitting new bearings to the new swingarm.

The new swingarm's shock attachment point is slightly rounded.. like by 0.5mm.. three of the most skilled employees agree that with just a bigger washer.. this is OK to use and should prevent further damage. At worst, the potential failure is less catastrophic than the original swingarm with the deep tiger stripe cuts on it... and that i should keep the tiger stripe one as a spare.

I think the cannondale swingarm would probably be safe to use on the Jekyll with low power. The Jekyll might be a better candidate for my 18" motorcycle rim experiment:

0auaujd1.jpg
 
So the swingarm fits and i'm back to the build. :D
 
Just a tid bit of info on a relatively new tire offered by Schwalbe...it is designed for cargo bike use and has a higher load carrying capability than my old favorite, the Schwalbe SUPER MOTO-X.

It is the Schealbe "Pick-Up"...here is a link to it:

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/pick-up

Don't know if it will handle Goat Heads but it will probably come closer than most bicycle tires :wink: .
 
Bullfrog said:
Just a tid bit of info on a relatively new tire offered by Schwalbe...it is designed for cargo bike use and has a higher load carrying capability than my old favorite, the Schwalbe SUPER MOTO-X.

It is the Schealbe "Pick-Up"...here is a link to it:

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/pick-up

Don't know if it will handle Goat Heads but it will probably come closer than most bicycle tires :wink: .
Click to expand...

Shit.. thanks for the hot tip!!

I'm in the right place and the best season to find out if they're resilient to goatheads. We even have an area the local bikers refer to as 'goathead gulch'.

The problem is so bad that I even have front wheel punctures every ~100 mi on my recumbents with an ultra rare 16" hookworm. I had to put slime in my front wheel and it causes a horrible cavitation effect ( energy loss ) in small wheels!!! i felt it worse in the 16" than the 20"... not a solution!!!

Honestly the goathead problem here has thrown a huge wrench in my interest in bicycling overall.
So thanks for thinking of me and my sisyphean task.


I looked into the tire. It looks beefy and i wonder if it's rated strength comes from a harder rubber compound. A harder rubber compound would be instrumental in flinging off goatheads ( i've never ever seen a goathead stuck in a motorcycle tire ), so maybe there is something to that tire.

Schwalbe's highest protection level is 7.. that one's a 6. I had a marathon plus and i wouldn't call it indestructible. So that casts some doubt. But that rating may be based on thickness, not hardness. I should try one anyway.
Well they're all out of stock everywhere so i can't order one up.. bummer!!!

Perhaps a marathon plus 20" front wheel may be tough enough to solve my front tire puncture problem at the least.
 
Maybe look into some metal mesh lunar lander tires.... ;)

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/wheel-lunar-rover/nasm_A19750830000
 

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neptronix said:
Bullfrog said:
Just a tid bit of info on a relatively new tire offered by Schwalbe...it is designed for cargo bike use and has a higher load carrying capability than my old favorite, the Schwalbe SUPER MOTO-X.

It is the Schealbe "Pick-Up"...here is a link to it:

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/pick-up

Don't know if it will handle Goat Heads but it will probably come closer than most bicycle tires :wink: .
Click to expand...

Shit.. thanks for the hot tip!!

I'm in the right place and the best season to find out if they're resilient to goatheads. We even have an area the local bikers refer to as 'goathead gulch'.

The problem is so bad that I even have front wheel punctures every ~100 mi on my recumbents with an ultra rare 16" hookworm. I had to put slime in my front wheel and it causes a horrible cavitation effect ( energy loss ) in small wheels!!! i felt it worse in the 16" than the 20"... not a solution!!!

Honestly the goathead problem here has thrown a huge wrench in my interest in bicycling overall.
So thanks for thinking of me and my sisyphean task.


I looked into the tire. It looks beefy and i wonder if it's rated strength comes from a harder rubber compound. A harder rubber compound would be instrumental in flinging off goatheads ( i've never ever seen a goathead stuck in a motorcycle tire ), so maybe there is something to that tire.

Schwalbe's highest protection level is 7.. that one's a 6. I had a marathon plus and i wouldn't call it indestructible. So that casts some doubt. But that rating may be based on thickness, not hardness. I should try one anyway.
Well they're all out of stock everywhere so i can't order one up.. bummer!!!

Perhaps a marathon plus 20" front wheel may be tough enough to solve my front tire puncture problem at the least.
Click to expand...

Looks like the "Pick-up" gets its puncture resistance mainly from the double layer carcass. "SUPER DEFENSE: The extremely strong double carcass gives the tire excellent safety under heavy loads. Multiple carcass layers give the tire extra puncture protection."
and
The Marathon E-Plus gets it from the SmartGuard protection layer which is a 5 mm thick layer of flexible rubber between the tread and the carcass as well as two layers of RaceGuard fabric.

Which is better for puncture protection...I have no idea and it probably depends a lot on what is trying to puncture your tire i.e. thumb tacks, Goat Heads, etc. Maybe somebody could try both and let us know :thumb: . Luckily we don't have any "Goat Heads" in the NW corner of Florida...we just have regular Goats :lol: .

Anyone with puncture problems/Goat Heads...have you tried running a tire liner like the "Mr. Tuffy"...if yes, did they help? I have a pair of the "Mr. Tuffy" liners but have not installed them yet.
 
The problem with tire liners is that if you don't run high enough pressure in the tire to keep the tube hard-pressing the liner against the inside of the tire tread area, and especially if you don't check that pressure and keep it the same on every ride, the liner will migrate from flexing of tube and tire so that the liner ends up no longer covering the tread area, and punctures can happen in the uncovered areas. Ends up looking like a sidewinder or sinewave scope trace.

And you can't fix that by glueing the liner down or it doesn't work--if the liner can't move out of the way of the incoming sharp thing and force the sharp thing to deflect sideways, the sharp thing will just puncture the liner and your tube. :/ (see dayglo avenger thread)

Another problem is that if the liner ends or edges are sharp, they will cut into the tube and may rupture it.


But they can help.

What I have used to keep the liners from damaging the tubes, at least on my front tires (doesn't work as well on the back due to greater weight and thus increased tire/tube deformation causing faster liner shift) is to circumferentially slice open an old thick tube along the inner seam, removing the valve stem and any thicker rubber around the stem, then slip this over the actual tube you're using. If you have really long thorns/etc to protect against, you can use more than one old tube this way in layers. Then put a liner between that assembly and the tire, install on your rim and inflate and ride. The problem is that this is heavier than just getting a better tire, and it has higher rolling resistance (and so power loss) than just a thicker tire would have. The advantage is that you can use this on any wheel, even one for which you can't *get* a better tire. ;)
 
amberwolf said:
The problem with tire liners is that if you don't run high enough pressure in the tire to keep the tube hard-pressing the liner against the inside of the tire tread area, and especially if you don't check that pressure and keep it the same on every ride, the liner will migrate from flexing of tube and tire so that the liner ends up no longer covering the tread area, and punctures can happen in the uncovered areas. Ends up looking like a sidewinder or sinewave scope trace.

And you can't fix that by glueing the liner down or it doesn't work--if the liner can't move out of the way of the incoming sharp thing and force the sharp thing to deflect sideways, the sharp thing will just puncture the liner and your tube. :/ (see dayglo avenger thread)

Another problem is that if the liner ends or edges are sharp, they will cut into the tube and may rupture it.


But they can help.

What I have used to keep the liners from damaging the tubes, at least on my front tires (doesn't work as well on the back due to greater weight and thus increased tire/tube deformation causing faster liner shift) is to circumferentially slice open an old thick tube along the inner seam, removing the valve stem and any thicker rubber around the stem, then slip this over the actual tube you're using. If you have really long thorns/etc to protect against, you can use more than one old tube this way in layers. Then put a liner between that assembly and the tire, install on your rim and inflate and ride. The problem is that this is heavier than just getting a better tire, and it has higher rolling resistance (and so power loss) than just a thicker tire would have. The advantage is that you can use this on any wheel, even one for which you can't *get* a better tire. ;)
Click to expand...

Good scoop, Thanks :D
 
amberwolf said:
What I have used to keep the liners from damaging the tubes, at least on my front tires (doesn't work as well on the back due to greater weight and thus increased tire/tube deformation causing faster liner shift) is to circumferentially slice open an old thick tube along the inner seam, removing the valve stem and any thicker rubber around the stem, then slip this over the actual tube you're using. If you have really long thorns/etc to protect against, you can use more than one old tube this way in layers. Then put a liner between that assembly and the tire, install on your rim and inflate and ride. The problem is that this is heavier than just getting a better tire, and it has higher rolling resistance (and so power loss) than just a thicker tire would have. The advantage is that you can use this on any wheel, even one for which you can't *get* a better tire. ;)
Click to expand...
Yes!
I've been doing this also for over 10 years with good success.

I recently made the 'mistake' of thinking I could do better and tried tubeless....massive stuff around, giant mess...not worth it.

The other thing I'm trying atm is Tannus armour. So far so good and it seems to work quite well...like a super sized version of the above technique.
 
I have already tested and tried the best of Schwalbe's product line as of 2019 and not seen anything close to thick enough for my environment.

I have measured the largest goathead i have seen on the road, and it was about 11mm.
In 'murica units, that's almost 1/2 an inch. Therefore that '5mm' of 'protection layer' plus the 2mm of regular rubber leaves us with 7mm of protection.

A typical tube is 1-2mm thick and so we have a total of 9mm of rubber in the best case.
But when you sit on the bike, this rubber compresses, so we're probably talkin' ~7mm.

And given that a goathead is much harder than the rubber tire and can be 11mm in length, we're just a few millimeters short on rubber.

We either need more hardness or more rubber.. pick your poison... but the best bicycle tire is not adequate for those who live in goathead hell.

Goatheads.jpg

The one thing i haven't experimented much with is very thick tubes.

Let's say i find one 4mm thick and put it in a 7mm thick tire.. i have 11mm of rubber... until it compresses.. :/
.. and horrible rolling resistance..
..see, this is how we end up with motorcycle tires with horrific rolling resistance. They are the bare minimum to ensure that during each ride, i am not replacing or patching an inner tube every 10 miles on average.

Mr tuffys and stop flats both wore my tire's tubes ( possibly they shifted around during times that air pressure was low ) away and created a flat in them. I tried tire in a tire and the tire held up but had horrible 'handling characteristics' ( lots of side to side motion in the tire itself ). That's unnerving at high speed.

Slime is probably the best product on the market for flat protection still. But the energy loss from cavitation is wild. For me, it reduces the possibility of a flat but doesn't eliminate it.

Really.. there aren't any good 'bicycle' answers out there i think.

Tubolito's tubes are said to be twice as strong and have lower rolling resistance due to their use of fancy new materials, but this is not enough to protect me from the last couple millimeters of goathead trying to work their way through.

I think a motorcycle tire is the minimum for riding in this area until there's a real silver bullet for the bike tire situation.
 
Cowardlyduck said:
The other thing I'm trying atm is Tannus armour. So far so good and it seems to work quite well...like a super sized version of the above technique.
Click to expand...

The tannus armor was designed for the conditions i live in by people who live in them. I was very hopeful it would be a good solution.
The ride quality/cornering, as reported by many local mountain bike shops, is poor, i'm told. Nobody at the shop will use one. Everyone uses stans no flats and accepts the downsides still. I've heard this 5 times and shied away from trying the tire, tbh.
 
Only thing I would fear with just thicker tubes, the goatheads would stay in the tire and work it's way thru. Looks like you just need to go to a tougher moto tire and take the performance hit. Might save your sanity.

We have some down here in areas, nothing like you have. I don't go off road at all. I hit crap on the road once in a while but dodge most of it. Only flat was from a piece of 6mm wire from a car tire on my Michelin's that I don't use anymore.
 
neptronix said:
The tannus armor was designed for the conditions i live in by people who live in them. I was very hopeful it would be a good solution.
The ride quality/cornering, as reported by many local mountain bike shops, is poor, i'm told. Nobody at the shop will use one. Everyone uses stans no flats and accepts the downsides still. I've heard this 5 times and shied away from trying the tire, tbh.
Click to expand...
Well, I haven't got a lot of experience with mine as yet, but the other day I was really glad to have it in my recumbent.
The entire tube stem ripped off the tube (suspect it was just old, or too low pressure let it move), and there was no way the sealant in the tube was plugging that hole.
Thankfully I was only a few kms from home, so just rode it on the rim/tire. The Tannus armour really saved the rim and made the bike semi-ridable to get me home. Without it I would have only been able to walk.

Ride quality wise, I think it's fine. I do have to run lower pressure to keep the same level of 'firmness' and cushioning in the tire, but Tannus armour acknowledge/suggest that themselves saying to run 5-7PSI lower than normal.
I really hope they work out for me long term as I have them in both my recumbent, and literally just last night ordered another set for my MTB after giving up on trying to get tubeless with Cushcores to work. :lol:

Cheers
 
Remember tiersavers? Might be worth a revisit-- see if they change up the odds.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/tire-wipers/
 
neptronix said:
I have measured the largest goathead i have seen on the road, and it was about 11mm.
In 'murica units, that's almost 1/2 an inch. Therefore that '5mm' of 'protection layer' plus the 2mm of regular rubber leaves us with 7mm of protection.

A typical tube is 1-2mm thick and so we have a total of 9mm of rubber in the best case.
But when you sit on the bike, this rubber compresses, so we're probably talkin' ~7mm.

And given that a goathead is much harder than the rubber tire and can be 11mm in length, we're just a few millimeters short on rubber.
Click to expand...
You also run into the problem of the goathead spine snapping off in the tread, and then being hammered in like a nail via it's wide base, deeper and deeper into the tread, by every bump and rock and gravel bit, etc., that you run over every wheel rotation. :(

Worse is when it gets in there just enough to slighly nick the tube, and as long as the spine is stuck there it's great, but as soon as some other bump/rock/etc knocks the spine out (or you remove it) then the nick ruptures and you lose your air, either quickly (if it rips) or slowly (if it's a pinhole).


We either need more hardness or more rubber.
Click to expand...
If it's hard enough to stop pointy things, then it is hard enough to compromise traction, in my experiences so far. If it were some form of multi-ply that has a soft tread compound and a hard internal carcass, that could be workable. But I haven't found one like that yet. The harder stuff simply won't grip the road surfaces well enough and they skid in turns under too many circumstances. :(


..see, this is how we end up with motorcycle tires with horrific rolling resistance. They are the bare minimum to ensure that during each ride, i am not replacing or patching an inner tube every 10 miles on average.
Click to expand...
That's basically why I went with the Shinko moped tires on the back of SB Cruiser and CrazyBike2...because I'd rather sacrifice the range and weight than have to change a flat by first unloading all my cargo (or dog(s)) on the side of the road and disassembling things for an hour in the middle of the day in arizona summer heat. :(
 
neptronix said:
I have already tested and tried the best of Schwalbe's product line as of 2019 and not seen anything close to thick enough for my environment.

I have measured the largest goathead i have seen on the road, and it was about 11mm.
In 'murica units, that's almost 1/2 an inch. Therefore that '5mm' of 'protection layer' plus the 2mm of regular rubber leaves us with 7mm of protection.

A typical tube is 1-2mm thick and so we have a total of 9mm of rubber in the best case.
But when you sit on the bike, this rubber compresses, so we're probably talkin' ~7mm.

And given that a goathead is much harder than the rubber tire and can be 11mm in length, we're just a few millimeters short on rubber.

We either need more hardness or more rubber.. pick your poison... but the best bicycle tire is not adequate for those who live in goathead hell.

Goatheads.jpg

The one thing i haven't experimented much with is very thick tubes.

Let's say i find one 4mm thick and put it in a 7mm thick tire.. i have 11mm of rubber... until it compresses.. :/
.. and horrible rolling resistance..
..see, this is how we end up with motorcycle tires with horrific rolling resistance. They are the bare minimum to ensure that during each ride, i am not replacing or patching an inner tube every 10 miles on average.

Mr tuffys and stop flats both wore my tire's tubes ( possibly they shifted around during times that air pressure was low ) away and created a flat in them. I tried tire in a tire and the tire held up but had horrible 'handling characteristics' ( lots of side to side motion in the tire itself ). That's unnerving at high speed.

Slime is probably the best product on the market for flat protection still. But the energy loss from cavitation is wild. For me, it reduces the possibility of a flat but doesn't eliminate it.

Really.. there aren't any good 'bicycle' answers out there i think.

Tubolito's tubes are said to be twice as strong and have lower rolling resistance due to their use of fancy new materials, but this is not enough to protect me from the last couple millimeters of goathead trying to work their way through.

I think a motorcycle tire is the minimum for riding in this area until there's a real silver bullet for the bike tire situation.
Click to expand...

Those things look nasty...I run Orange Seal Endurance Sealant: https://shop.orangeseal.com/products/endurance-sealant-w-inj-system in my tires here in NW Florida and it seals good whenever I pick up a sand spur. No clue how well they would work for a Goat Head. I think a motorcycle tire is going to be your best bet.
 
Orange seal looks like it might be a bit better than slime and stans. I also looked into finish line's product, which is based on multi seal for cars, and it seems to have good performance.

I've never heard of sand spurs before. Look like 1/2 scale models of goatheads:
download.jpg

Have you ever tried a top end "puncture proof" tire? I suspect something like a marathon plus could roll over those things.
 
We do have plenty of them here. They like to cling to your clothes and hurt bare foot. Bikes with good tires do not have an issue. If your running sacks then would avoid them. Nothing like the spikes your dealing with.

by neptronix » Oct 31 2021 12:45pm

Orange seal looks like it might be a bit better than slime and stans. I also looked into finish line's product, which is based on multi seal for cars, and it seems to have good performance.

I've never heard of sand spurs before. Look like 1/2 scale models of goatheads:
download.jpg
download.jpg (10.07 KiB) Viewed 13 times
Have you ever tried a top end "puncture proof" tire? I suspect something like a marathon plus could roll over those things.
Click to expand...
 
That's what i thought. The puncture proof tire is made for most of the United States - not the 'southwest', like utah, az, parts of california, probably nevada, texas, etc.

I think motorcycle tires are a minimum. And you know what? i've never seen a goathead hanging out of one. They're too hard. Even at 30psi.

Honestly, from an aesthetics and ride comfort perspective, I think the 18" moto wheel on the cannondale is going to look and ride in a badass way. I may lose some of it's amazing cornering capabilities and also need another 50 watts to roll.... but i need to ride.

I won't have space to build this beast until spring and hope that maybe the supply chain problem the world is in may have leveled out to the point where i can actually buy parts. Just brainstorming on the next plot for now.
 
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