High performance & durability Cannondale Semi Recumbent

[neptronix]

Thanks for linking me to this Neppy. I'm glad the bike is working out well so far, and wish you a good recovery. Look forward to whatever motor (3T Leaf, right?) and battery improvements you do in the future!

Thanks dude. I'm actually recovering pretty well. Doc says next week i am weight bearing, which means i can drive, but the big frame attached to my leg gets in the way of me even putting my feet on the pedals.

Leaf 3T is probably going to be the motor. Arranging a very large, high amp 48v battery will be the challenge. I may end up paralleling some BMSed packs ( and running them on 1 BMS ) rather than building my own.

Doc expects me to be free of this cage sometime this summer. That's when this thread will kick up again.
In the meantime i'm working on starting several businesses because i'm bored out of my skull and my main income of 10 years may very well disappear this year. What timing! no ebike parts until this is all sorted out :/

 

[amberwolf]

i'm bored out of my skull

I have nothing to offer except the satisfaction of a job well done but if you're really bored, I have a project for Incememed's SFOC5 controller to make a Dashboard / Status&Stats Reader program, that I really don't know how to do.... For anyone with programming experience, it'd probably be a piece of cake.

 

[neptronix]

Haha.. thanks for your offer but unless it is written in php, sql, javascript, or bash script, i'm of no use.

My C and Visual Basic is pretty effin rusty.

 

[amberwolf]

I don't have any idea what it would be written in. As long as it'll do the job, it doesn't matter.

This was the thread for when I was going to try to make an android version to run on an old Samsung tablet I have...but I couldn't figure out how to do it, so I haven't been back to it in a while.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=95633

It doesn't have to be android, it can run in a browser (javascript?) as long as it can retrieve data from a serial port (or BT) (to get the data to display on the dashboard screen, and to log the realtime data) and send other data back out (to change settings). Also be able to open a realtime-data logfile, and "page" thru the readouts, displayed on the dash as if it was the ride itself.

I have ideas on how it should work for the user, but no idea how it would work under the hood.

 

[neptronix]

So yeah. Not much going on with this build, since my leg has been in an external fixator and all that fun stuff..

I recently figured out how to go down stairs safely on crutches and promptly sat on the bike to see if my external fixator would clear it. It turns out that i only need half an inch or so.

Coincidentally, the pedal extender thingies give you about an inch!



So i could be riding and building again pretty soon.

Another issue i need to solve is how to carry the crutches on the bike, if i need to go to a store or whatever.
Imagine how funny this would look if you saw it on the road.



Maybe i won't be bicycle riding just yet, but once my bone is strong enough and i can handle a cane ( which can easily be transported ), it's game on!

 

[bakaneko]

Just ride the bike up into the store. LOL :wink:

 

[amberwolf]

WHen I fractured my ankle in the 2011 DeathRace, I carried my crutches behind the seat sorta like you have them there, but they would sometimes get caught on things as I rode past overhangs of trees, bushes, etc., on the bike paths/edges of the road, so I'd have to go leftward around such spots to ensure that wouldnt' happen. I also tried them bungeed to the frame of teh bike under seat, lengthwise, but it was a lot harder to get them on and off while sitting on the seat (and I couldn' do it while standing there).

So mostly I put the tips in one of the cargo pods and the rest of them stuck up thru the frame of the seat back.
https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12500&p=399418&hilit=crutch%2A#p399418

Much later, when I started using a cane just cuz all my joints got too hurty, (and I got so much heavier (mostly from emotional eating problems after the fire; problems that have continued since then off and on and added 70lbs semipermanently to me at this point, slowly increasing)), I put it there, but eventually started using these holders for "wet floor" signs, with a rag tied around the cane as a "cork" to keep it from sliding out of the holder except when I actually pull it out.
https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12500&p=1067586&hilit=cane#p1067586

The one on SB Cruiser is bolted to the cargo box / frame, horizontally, and has worked fine for I guess a couple years now, was vertical next to the seat before I built the cargobox under the seat, etc.

The holders I use are exactly like the gray "tubes" in this pic, that came with "cleanup station" folding wetfloor signs. A couple of them or something similar could be secured to the frame, and make secure holders for the end of each crutch, so they don't rattle around back there.

 

[neptronix]

That's gangster as hell. I love it. I love the insanity of it, *and* your spirit of not getting knocked down and keepin' on..

I think that the look of your bike is so busy that the addition of crutches doesn't stick out as it does on my bike which resembles a 1980's hair metal guitar with wheels.. not that public perception matters too much. I just need to ride ffs.

I think my bike would not be as great as yours in regards to fabricating some nice crutch holders, so i'm just gonna go back to doing my bone building excersizes so i can level up to a walking cane. I know it would be a peach to carry one.

 

[neptronix]

After lots of practice, i'm walking with a cane finally.
So that problem's solved.

The next problem is what to do with this motor situation. I suspect a leafmotor 1.5kw will do a great job of hitting my 50mph target speed but in a 20" wheel we are talking about a lot of eddy current drag; also, i will end up with a >20lb wheel, which is not desirable since the rear suspension does so much of the work. Leaf also won't make me a version with 0.27mm or 0.2mm lams. I've asked multiple times.

The GMAC sounds like a cool option until you take into effect the 85% peak efficiency, versus potentially 91% with a hub. Also, craptons of drag from the gears, i am sure..

I think a single stage, swingarm mounted direct to rear wheel RC motor is the only way this bike is going to work well.
My calculations have me thinking that a 3220 astro motor would be the ticket with a 5.5:1 reduction. Another candidate is the CYC x1 pro motor. Waiting on a few emails and phone calls to make my choice.

 

[neptronix]

I am building strength every day and cannot wait to get riding again! it's driving me mad; so i challenged myself to a walk in the park using the crutches as lightly as possible and managed to make it a mile on my own two feet.



I am thinking i will have the leg strength to get back to the build in a week if i continue to push myself.

I am still waiting for an email back from astro to make my motor choice, but i am about 90% sure i'm getting a 3220 and doing a 6:1 to the rear. In the meantime, i'm going to swap out the infineon controller for a phaserunner so i can run some flux weakening and get up to at least 36mph rather than the current 31, which is unsafe as i travel on roads with 35mph speed limits and no bike lanes often enough.

 

[Chalo]

[...]so i can run some flux weakening and get up to at least 36mph rather than the current 31, which is unsafe as i travel on roads with 35mph speed limits and no bike lanes often enough.

Dude. Tell it to a real cyclist so he can have a laugh. I am entertained by the idea that you have to be able to exceed the speed limit to be "safe". You know they'll still pass you anyway, probably unsafely, just because you're on a bike. Doesn't matter how fast you go. Whatever happens will happen at a higher speed. Car drivers are retarded like that.

Congratulations on your brisk recovery. I find that I'm not as freakishly resilient as I used to be. (Still I can't really complain.) With luck, your new leg will be all you hope for and more.

 

[neptronix]

I don't need to defend my design decisions per local road conditions that you are not aware of. Please take those opinions elsewhere. Don't appreciate it on my thread. I see you dissing a lot of people for their bike choices on this forum and i am really sick of it.

 

[thundercamel]

Let the man build what he likes please.

So it sounds like the 3220 astro motor just for less unsprung weight than the leaf motor then? You mentioned eddy current drag with the leaf; does that just make it harder to pedal off throttle, or is it a problem on throttle as well (limiting top speed)?

Also great work and determination on your recovery!

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, the astro 3220 is a 4 or 5lb motor, the challenge is making a mount that fits the bike. I suspect that eddy current drag would be very low, so that i could pedal for long distances at a time.

I recently did some ebike simulating and RC motor prop simulating and realized that my use case for the astro with a single reduction is basically throwing half the power potential away of a $700 USD motor. And without spinning it up, you can never hit that magic 94% peak efficiency. More like 90-92%. Then once you get into the chain reduction friction, you're right at where a DD is, efficiency wise.

A 27mm wide 9C is a little too small to sustain 45mph and cannot climb the extended 7% grade i need it to.
A 30mm wide 9C is a bit too large and has very poor efficiency at lower speeds like the 20-30mph i usually travel at, but will destroy said hill.
The new 27mm wide, 215 tall 9C appears to be roughly the perfect size as it can climb the 7% grade for long enough and have OK efficiency at the lower speeds. It also has another couple poles and thus would produce a little more torque than usual relative to it's size, which is good because i live on a 24% hill. Thus, it is the lightest motor that fits my requirements for efficiency and power output.



I've sent a request out to Justin to see if he can get me a very high speed winding 9C 215.

 

[Chalo]

Let the man build what he likes please.

You're on crack if you think my comment was about building what he likes; it's about the 100.0% bogus assertion that anyone on a bike would need to exceed the speed limit to be safe in traffic. We may or may not be safe in traffic, but that's a property of the traffic, not our speed-- which observably reduces our safety as it increases.

 

[qwerkus]

[Leaf 3T is probably going to be the motor. Arranging a very large, high amp 48v battery will be the challenge. I may end up paralleling some BMSed packs ( and running them on 1 BMS ) rather than building my own.

Hi neptronix. Just found a second hand easyrider where I live. The reason I'm thinking about it is also a more comfortable riding position. Anything you'd advise before getting it ? Still committed to leaf ? I was hoping for an aluminium stator for better heat management.

 

[neptronix]

Hi neptronix. Just found a second hand easyrider where I live. The reason I'm thinking about it is also a more comfortable riding position. Anything you'd advise before getting it ? Still committed to leaf ? I was hoping for an aluminium stator for better heat management.

My advice is to buy the thing and don't look back. The only thing to look for is whether it was recalled or not. Look for looseness in the steering and/or drivetrain as a clue as to whether it has received the recall or not. It is more likely that it has had the recall work done than not.

https://www.cannondale.com/~/media/...easy_rider_addemdum_2002_recall_en.ashx?la=en

I would buy another one of these if one popped up locally at a good price, just for spare parts. It is VERY difficult to find a better semi recumbent bicycle. if you find a better one, it won't have full suspension, therefore it will be a tooth-loosening ride at the insanely high speeds these aerodynamically advantaged bicycles are capable of traveling at. Fine enough if you are only looking to do the 20-25mph the bicycle was designed to travel at on pedal power. A chromoly framed, 26 inch rear wheeled semi recumbent would probably ride just fine at lower speeds.

Also, go play around with the ebikes.ca simulator and you will realize you only need a fraction of the motor you'd need on an upright bike. I could technically pull off 50mph continuous on the smallest 9C motor ( 27mm wide ). The only reason i need something larger is because i live on a 28% grade and also want the ability to climb a 9.2% perpetual grade for a 9 mile stretch.

These kinds of bikes are hugely underappreciated in the bicycling scene. Go ride one and you will question why you didn't buy one a decade ago.... once you get used to the very different handling feel, anyway.

 

[neptronix]

it's about the 100.0% bogus assertion that anyone on a bike would need to exceed the speed limit to be safe in traffic.

My bicycle is designed to be able to match the top speed of traffic on my long suburban roads and travel in the car lane just as any motorcycle would operate in the street along with cars, as there is no such thing as a bicycle lane that would make slow travel safe.

Doing 20mph in a 45mph zone with no bicycle lane would be suicidal where i live, with the scads of people driving trucks over the speed limit, zoned out and looking at their cell phones.

Please keep your opinions about my riding conditions to yourself in the future because they are not productive nor wanted.

 

[Chalo]

it's about the 100.0% bogus assertion that anyone on a bike would need to exceed the speed limit to be safe in traffic

Doing 20mph in a 45mph zone with no bicycle lane would be suicidal where i live, with the scads of people driving trucks over the speed limit, zoned out and looking at their cell phones.

Nep, you might be able to fool some feckless car-driving dingdong about this stuff, but not me. I have been riding a bike on major arterial streets and US Highways for transportation since the '80s-- before bike lanes were a thing, before e-bikes were a thing-- in suburban Texas. I know what it's like. (Not suicidal.)

Living in the middle of a proper city that has cycle infrastructure is better, I'll grant you. You could do that, you know. It constitutes living your values re: efficiency rather than trying and mostly failing to impose efficiency on a hellscape that was predicated by the assumption that everyone drives a car.

 

[neptronix]

I also have been riding bikes since the 80's and got by just fine in California without an ebike for a decade and some change as well. Weather and infrastructure made it easy to do, and there were also plenty of other people who rode bikes in the area.
I didn't get interested in electric bicycles, nor did i see the need for one until i left and moved to several other states which were dramatically less friendly to cyclists per the design of their infrastructure and the difficulty the weather changes impose.

Your arguments are based in ignorance of my riding conditions. It is absurd to suggest i move without knowing the circumstances of why i live where i do. The aim of my bike is to find a way to fit bicycling into long distance, high speed situations that nobody else in my area is willing to ride a bicycle in due to the lack of shoulder.

For the third time, please stop badgering me. I see you doing the same to newbies on the forum. It is not productive to a discussion about engineering a solution to what keeps most suburbanites off of bicycles.

 

[qwerkus]

My advice is to buy the thing and don't look back. The only thing to look for is whether it was recalled or not. Look for looseness in the steering and/or drivetrain as a clue as to whether it has received the recall or not. It is more likely that it has had the recall work done than not.

https://www.cannondale.com/~/media/...easy_rider_addemdum_2002_recall_en.ashx?la=en

I would buy another one of these if one popped up locally at a good price, just for spare parts. It is VERY difficult to find a better semi recumbent bicycle. if you find a better one, it won't have full suspension, therefore it will be a tooth-loosening ride at the insanely high speeds these aerodynamically advantaged bicycles are capable of traveling at. Fine enough if you are only looking to do the 20-25mph the bicycle was designed to travel at on pedal power. A chromoly framed, 26 inch rear wheeled semi recumbent would probably ride just fine at lower speeds.

Also, go play around with the ebikes.ca simulator and you will realize you only need a fraction of the motor you'd need on an upright bike. I could technically pull off 50mph continuous on the smallest 9C motor ( 27mm wide ). The only reason i need something larger is because i live on a 28% grade and also want the ability to climb a 9.2% perpetual grade for a 9 mile stretch.

These kinds of bikes are hugely underappreciated in the bicycling scene. Go ride one and you will question why you didn't buy one a decade ago.... once you get used to the very different handling feel, anyway.

Yes, my impression too. Some people would say it has "disabled" written all over it, but I was sold to it from the moment I saw it. My only concern would be spares. Since it's no longer in production, how can I repair one of the special parts, like the front suspension, if it breaks. And given the amount of power I plan to pump through, it might just break. Also,how about the seat ? I give it 2 years of everyday ride, and than I'd need a new one.

And finally: did you consider building a custom battery that fits inside the frame ? How many cells do you think one could fit ?

 

[neptronix]

Yes, my impression too. Some people would say it has "disabled" written all over it, but I was sold to it from the moment I saw it. My only concern would be spares. Since it's no longer in production, how can I repair one of the special parts, like the front suspension, if it breaks. And given the amount of power I plan to pump through, it might just break. Also,how about the seat ? I give it 2 years of everyday ride, and than I'd need a new one.

It's just a weird image problem that semi recumbent bicycles have.
You would be surprised as to how people perceive it. People stare at me on the road every time i ride it. I have had some people come up and ask what it is, even been thrown a few random thumbs up from people crossing the street.

The dorky folding dual suspension bike i rode for a moment also got a lot of random compliments. A few guys were gawking at it at a MTB shop because they'd never seen anything like it.

If you are concerned about future availability of parts, i don't know what to tell ya. Cannondale is fresh out of bits and pieces for this bike, from what i heard on the phone with them. IMHO i am fine with this because i see these pop up on eBay from time to time. The main thing that concerns me is the front headshok fork. I do believe i could have a custom stiff fork made to replace it in the future. The bike is so great that it is worth the $.

Earlier in the thread i mentioned the Maxarya Ray 2/1. It's a rear suspension only version of this bike that is currently in production. So you can still find a bike like this

 

[thundercamel]

That frame triangle looks pretty similar to my wife's bike, which I just crammed 84 cells, BMS, and wiring into.

 

[neptronix]

As for battery mounting, that's a big mystery. The bike will not make your job easy. Right now my rear mounted pack is fine but gives very inadequate range and power.

I have decided to have a two part battery that hangs off the sides of the frame. Where it will hang off is still up for debate. But i want a minimum of 1.5kwhrs so i can do a >100 mile ride at ~20mph. It will probably require custom 3d printed mounts for the large diameter tubes.

 

[qwerkus]

That frame triangle looks pretty similar to my wife's bike, which I just crammed 84 cells, BMS, and wiring into.

Hmmm. I'd need 98 cells minimum, better 112. How did you make that niiiiiiice triangle box ?

As for battery mounting, that's a big mystery. The bike will not make your job easy. Right now my rear mounted pack is fine but gives very inadequate range and power.

I have decided to have a two part battery that hangs off the sides of the frame. Where it will hang off is still up for debate. But i want a minimum of 1.5kwhrs so i can do a >100 mile ride at ~20mph. It will probably require custom 3d printed mounts for the large diameter tubes.

I'm thinking a big box behind the seat. Not sure how rigid that one is.