How to increase acceleration top speed and autonomy ?

jerberto

100 µW
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
8
Hello All,

I have this scooter cf below picture. My top speed is 81/82 KM/H per hour as per GPS Speed.
The acceleration is very good but i'd like it even better.

What would be your suggestion in order to achieve :

More autonomy (i'd like to do 40K at top speed).
More acceleration
Eventually go up to 90/100 top speed.

Shall i change the battery ? I changed recently my motor from 1000W to 2000W and went from 60 top speed to 80 KM/H. My autonomy is roughly 30/40 KM depending the speed i go.
I dont have much knoweldge about what the controller can stand and what i can achieve with the current combo controller / battery.

Here are my settings :

Scotter :
4.pic.jpg


a. 2000W motors.
5.pic.jpg

b. Controller / 3000W - 80A - 72V
1.pic.jpg

c. 6 Batteries / 6-DZM-20 Chilwee
Cursor_and_Chilwee_Group.png
2.pic.jpg

Thanks for your opinion :)
 
Do you really get over 80 km/h for up to 40 km with a 10'' 2000W hub motor and those SLA batteries? Is that four batteries for 48V? How many Ah are they? If yes than getting a better Li-Ion 74V battery and going with BIG wires going from the battery to the controller and controller to motor would probably help with torque. Ultimately, going with an even more powerful controller would result in more torque and speed. If you really do 80 with 48V of SLAs then you should hit 100 with 74V of Li-Ion. To stay at 100 km/h for 40 km you'll probably need at least 4kw/h of battery. But then you might run into overheating issues with the 2000W motor you have. You might need to go with a more powerful motor also. I guess where I'm going with this is, for more speed, more torque and more range, you would probably need to upgrade everything.

How much money you want to spend on that scooter?
 
Hello,

Thanks for your answer,

I have 6 batteries connected in serie. (72v)

Yes top speed is 81 km/h but after let's say 15km i think i drop down to 75 top speed then around 25km 70 ...

So you are suggesting to change batteries ? but i am already seems like at the max the controller can take ?

I spent around 1000 usd with all tuning (change of tires / front break / controller / batteries etc...)
 
Yes, better batteries will do all 3. Lithium of the same nominal capacity will be much lighter giving you better acceleration.

Lithium's voltage under load will sag less (as long as you use lithium with the proper power rating), so the resulting higher voltage the motor sees will give you more speed. Get 23 or 24 cells in series if going with Lifepo4 (nominal voltage 3.2 or 3.3V per cell) or get 20 or 21 in series if going lithium polymer (3.6-3.7V nominal per cell) to ensure the higher voltage.

You will gain autonomy because lithium has little Peukert's Effect compared to lead batteries. Your lead batteries have a nominal capacity rating based on a 20 hours discharge rate, but you are discharging them well over 20 times that fast, and when you do that lead batteries can deliver far less capacity than their nominal rating. Add in that you can't very deeply discharge lead without prematurely killing them and you end up with 30-50% less real world capacity than the same rated capacity of lithium.

A cheap and easy upgrade is to use thicker power wires both from the battery to the controller and from the controller to the motor. This will result in less heat lost in the wiring for a bit better efficiency, and it also increases increases the voltage the motor sees for a bit better performance.

Anything you can do to improve aerodynamics will improve top speed and efficiency (range). Slight changes in riding position or a set mod that lowers the seat can pay surprising dividends. For aerodynamics think of your scooter as pulling around a trail of turbulence, so it's not only about pierces through the air easier in the front. It's actually more about letting the air flow smoothly and less turbulent away from the rear of you and the scooter. Simple things are:
1. If you have 2 kickstands, get rid of one.
2. If you have a rear rack you don't use, remove it, or even better get an aerodynamic backpack to use instead.
3. Instead of a rear rack or backpack, build an aerodynamic tailbox that not only will greatly enhance aerodynamics, but giving it a lid can give you a lot of extra storage capacity. Just don't go filling it with a bunch of useless weight to carry around and negate much of your lighter battery advantage. That kind of one-off mod will also make your scoot unique and less likely to be messed with or stolen.

The way you ride can greatly affect range, and electrics are so cheap to operate that riding hard becomes habit, but for those times when you need maximum range do small things like look ahead and coast to avoid using brakes. When you can use timing to legally avoid full stops then that avoids accelerating from a stop up to that speed, and low rpm acceleration or starting from a full stop is very low efficiency for the motor and the majority of the energy you draw from the battery turns into heat instead of work done moving you and the scoot.

Hills chew up energy, so often you'll find that a flatter longer route can use less energy. Get yourself a Cycle Analyst, which is an invaluable tool in tracking your energy usage to help gain a better understanding and feel for performance and consumption and many other useful things for anyone using a light EV.
 
John in CR said:
Yes, better batteries will do all 3. Lithium of the same nominal capacity will be much lighter giving you better acceleration.

Lithium's voltage under load will sag less (as long as you use lithium with the proper power rating), so the resulting higher voltage the motor sees will give you more speed. Get 23 or 24 cells in series if going with Lifepo4 (nominal voltage 3.2 or 3.3V per cell) or get 20 or 21 in series if going lithium polymer (3.6-3.7V nominal per cell) to ensure the higher voltage.

You will gain autonomy because lithium has little Peukert's Effect compared to lead batteries. Your lead batteries have a nominal capacity rating based on a 20 hours discharge rate, but you are discharging them well over 20 times that fast, and when you do that lead batteries can deliver far less capacity than their nominal rating. Add in that you can't very deeply discharge lead without prematurely killing them and you end up with 30-50% less real world capacity than the same rated capacity of lithium.

A cheap and easy upgrade is to use thicker power wires both from the battery to the controller and from the controller to the motor. This will result in less heat lost in the wiring for a bit better efficiency, and it also increases increases the voltage the motor sees for a bit better performance.

Anything you can do to improve aerodynamics will improve top speed and efficiency (range). Slight changes in riding position or a set mod that lowers the seat can pay surprising dividends. For aerodynamics think of your scooter as pulling around a trail of turbulence, so it's not only about pierces through the air easier in the front. It's actually more about letting the air flow smoothly and less turbulent away from the rear of you and the scooter. Simple things are:
1. If you have 2 kickstands, get rid of one.
2. If you have a rear rack you don't use, remove it, or even better get an aerodynamic backpack to use instead.
3. Instead of a rear rack or backpack, build an aerodynamic tailbox that not only will greatly enhance aerodynamics, but giving it a lid can give you a lot of extra storage capacity. Just don't go filling it with a bunch of useless weight to carry around and negate much of your lighter battery advantage. That kind of one-off mod will also make your scoot unique and less likely to be messed with or stolen.

The way you ride can greatly affect range, and electrics are so cheap to operate that riding hard becomes habit, but for those times when you need maximum range do small things like look ahead and coast to avoid using brakes. When you can use timing to legally avoid full stops then that avoids accelerating from a stop up to that speed, and low rpm acceleration or starting from a full stop is very low efficiency for the motor and the majority of the energy you draw from the battery turns into heat instead of work done moving you and the scoot.

Hills chew up energy, so often you'll find that a flatter longer route can use less energy. Get yourself a Cycle Analyst, which is an invaluable tool in tracking your energy usage to help gain a better understanding and feel for performance and consumption and many other useful things for anyone using a light EV.

Thx very much for your great answer.

For me switching to lithium is not an option as price is too high, i live in China and Lead is very cheap.

I'd like actually to know if i could just with lead battery increase my top speed and autonomy ? My understanding being that my controller cannot stand more than 72V as per what is written on it : photo here : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/download/file.php?id=181234

As u can see it's written 3000W 80A / 62/72V. My motor being 3000W and controller being rated 72V would i be possible to go over 72V (add one more battery, i have 6 now)and with more AMP ?

Right now my batteries are : 6DZM 20 from Chilwee

http://www.cnchaowei.com/en/product1.php

Is there any other battery from their list i could use which would increase my performance ?

Well noted btw for the cable i already changed them all.

thx u for ur help
 
jerberto said:
For me switching to lithium is not an option as price is too high, i live in China and Lead is very cheap.

Lead batteries are inconsistent with your performance goals and the use of your current scooter.

You can add more lead batteries and gain either speed or range, but not both.
 
cwah said:
U need moped with more space for batteries

thx so far i could put 4 mores batteries in the scooter as i have enough space for it (10 - 12v)...

Cheers
 
Chalo said:
jerberto said:
For me switching to lithium is not an option as price is too high, i live in China and Lead is very cheap.

Lead batteries are inconsistent with your performance goals and the use of your current scooter.

You can add more lead batteries and gain either speed or range, but not both.

thx for yoru answer, i agree with you, my target now is more range...

how many more batteries could i add on my scotter based on my controller information ? i am not sure how many more batteries it could stand.

thx
 
For more range, wire 6 extra batteries in parallel to your existing batteries, even if they are not the same size. They only have to be the same combined voltage. The controller will work the same as it does now
 
Can i add 12V batteries with lower AH in Parallel ? Otherwise weight will be too heavy ;( My 12V 20Ah batteries weight 7 kg while 12v 12Ah weight 4 kg.

Otherwsie would it be possible to add 2 mores 12V with same AH batteries with some kind of special parallel settings ?

thx
 
Whatever you add in parallel must be the same number of batteries or at least totalling the same voltage. Ah can be more or less than the original series set, just that the less you add the less it will help.
 
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