Hybrid road bike ebike conversion

[raylo32]

Those look interesting and the price is right. But the kits are PAS not torque. I guess one could just get the motor and use a Cycle Analyst or somesuch and a torque BB from Grin. One other thing I don't like is the motor cable does not seem to have a quick disconnect. But otherwise what's not to like?

But the kits come with PAS and not torque and the cable doesn't seem to have a quick connect at the wheel.

Probably. A strong headwind will pretty much overcome the level of assistance a 350w kit is able to provide. Personally I wouldn't invest actual money into anything smaller than a 1000w kit. Even if speed isn't your goal the additional copper fill will help resist motor overheating.

The 1500w leafmotor is well regarded. I have one and can recommend it. They also sell a 1000w version. I cannot speak for their entire kit per-se as I have no experience with them, but the motors themselves are pretty darn good all considered.

All that said, if you're really into pedaling a higher power geared motor like the Mac or Gmac might be right up your alley. Less cogging than a direct drive motor.

 

[HK12K]

Those look interesting and the price is right. But the kits are PAS not torque. I guess one could just get the motor and use a Cycle Analyst or somesuch and a torque BB from Grin. One other thing I don't like is the motor cable does not seem to have a quick disconnect. But otherwise what's not to like?

But the kits come with PAS and not torque and the cable doesn't seem to have a quick connect at the wheel.

Probably. A strong headwind will pretty much overcome the level of assistance a 350w kit is able to provide. Personally I wouldn't invest actual money into anything smaller than a 1000w kit. Even if speed isn't your goal the additional copper fill will help resist motor overheating.

The 1500w leafmotor is well regarded. I have one and can recommend it. They also sell a 1000w version. I cannot speak for their entire kit per-se as I have no experience with them, but the motors themselves are pretty darn good all considered.

All that said, if you're really into pedaling a higher power geared motor like the Mac or Gmac might be right up your alley. Less cogging than a direct drive motor.

The motor is a good choice. As I mentioned, I am unfamiliar with the rest of their "kit". That said it is unlikely anyone will find a hub motor kit that includes a torque sensing BB. Most all of them are cadence based. I prefer throttles anyway personally, but if torque sensing is a requirement it is certainly attainable if one is willing to mix and match. The Cycle Analyst is well regarded, though a bit of an antique at this point. I use smart controllers to get my thrills such as Nucular and the late Adaptto, though there are others such as the Phaserunner and ASI's offerings.

As for a quick disconnect, the leafmotor comes standard with bullet connectors for the phases and a molex style connector for the halls and temp sensor. If they do not suit you any competent diy'er should be able to swap them for their preferred connector with ease. Soldering is easy, and both cheap and quick to master for those who are unfamiliar with the process. I bought a dirt cheap soldering kit from Amazon with everything I needed for around $20 or so.

 

[raylo32]

Yes, Grin sells hub kits that let you pick and choose torque BBs or PAS with baserunner or phaserunner. They are $$$ compared to these Leaf kits. I am still considering those, too... although their website was down when I looked this AM.... not totally down but was displaying zero items for sale. Last I looked they had al their RTR kits available. Yeah, sure I can solder... but trying to minimize my work to some extent.


[/quote]
The motor is a good choice. As I mentioned, I am unfamiliar with the rest of their "kit". That said it is unlikely anyone will find a hub motor kit that includes a torque sensing BB. Most all of them are cadence based. I prefer throttles anyway personally, but if torque sensing is a requirement it is certainly attainable if one is willing to mix and match. The Cycle Analyst is well regarded, though a bit of an antique at this point. I use smart controllers to get my thrills such as Nucular and the late Adaptto, though there are others such as the Phaserunner and ASI's offerings.

As for a quick disconnect, the leafmotor comes standard with bullet connectors for the phases and a molex style connector for the halls and temp sensor. If they do not suit you any competent diy'er should be able to swap them for their preferred connector with ease. Soldering is easy, and both cheap and quick to master for those who are unfamiliar with the process. I bought a dirt cheap soldering kit from Amazon with everything I needed for around $20 or so.
[/quote]

 

[jlpicard]

Those look interesting and the price is right. But the kits are PAS not torque. I guess one could just get the motor and use a Cycle Analyst or somesuch and a torque BB from Grin. One other thing I don't like is the motor cable does not seem to have a quick disconnect. But otherwise what's not to like?

But the kits come with PAS and not torque and the cable doesn't seem to have a quick connect at the wheel.

The motor is a good choice. As I mentioned, I am unfamiliar with the rest of their "kit". That said it is unlikely anyone will find a hub motor kit that includes a torque sensing BB. Most all of them are cadence based. I prefer throttles anyway personally, but if torque sensing is a requirement it is certainly attainable if one is willing to mix and match. The Cycle Analyst is well regarded, though a bit of an antique at this point. I use smart controllers to get my thrills such as Nucular and the late Adaptto, though there are others such as the Phaserunner and ASI's offerings.

PAS= Pedal assist right? While I am pedalling, the motor will assist me depending on the level of assist I have dialed in.
torque=?
torque BB=?
Cadence=?
Sorry for the 100microWatt noob questions.

 

[raylo32]

PAS and torque sensing are just different ways of giving you pedal assist. PAS/cadence assist just has a sensor that see the pedals moving... doesn't matter how fast you are pedaling or how hard you are pedaling. It is basically an on/off switch for the motor which will then give you a fixed amount of watts assist depending on the level of assist you are in on the display. Torque sensing is more sophisticated. It basically measures how much force you are putting on the pedals and provides assist in proportion to that with a multiplication factor that depends on the assist level you set on the display. Pedal harder, more assist without having to change assist levels on the e-bike display. Many of us who primarily ride pedal bikes like torque assist because it is much closer to the way a real bike works. But PAS works for many other people... who IMO may not really have a lot of experience riding in the first place and don't notice or mind the shortcomings.

PAS= Pedal assist right? While I am pedalling, the motor will assist me depending on the level of assist I have dialed in.
torque=?
torque BB=?
Cadence=?
Sorry for the 100microWatt noob questions.

 

[jlpicard]

Ok I see. I have .1% experience with riding EBikes. I spent two weeks dog sitting my bro's lab and he kept telling me "Take my Ebike for a ride". I finally did and now I want one. So he has a RadRover5 Fat tire and after reading these most recent 'splanations here, I went to RadRover website and found this in the details of HIS bike:

Pedal Assist

Intelligent 5 level pedal assist with 12 magnet cadence sensor

So, I am assuming this is also the less expensive PA and therefore the only type I have ever tried. Thanks much!

 

[raylo32]

Yes, correct.... typical cadence sensing PAS.

Intelligent 5 level pedal assist with 12 magnet cadence sensor

So, I am assuming this is also the less expensive PA and therefore the only type I have ever tried. Thanks much!

 

[ZeroEm]

by jlpicard » Aug 10 2021 2:45pm

Ok I see. I have .1% experience with riding EBikes. I spent two weeks dog sitting my bro's lab and he kept telling me "Take my Ebike for a ride". I finally did and now I want one. So he has a RadRover5 Fat tire and after reading these most recent 'splanations here, I went to RadRover website and found this in the details of HIS bike:

Pedal Assist

Intelligent 5 level pedal assist with 12 magnet cadence sensor

So, I am assuming this is also the less expensive PA and therefore the only type I have ever tried. Thanks much!

Would like to welcome you. Everybody here is right! Just need to figure out what you want or need. Your .1% experience is no problem here. They can walk you thru every step.

250w -350w is not very much but some countries it's the law. Most of us here are lawless but have good behavior and don't get noticed. For pedal assist only 500w-750w are good numbers if you like to pedal. Then there are hills, don't want to go slower than 10mph up hill, hard on the motors. This is where 1000w-1500w motors are good. 800w-900w with some light pedaling will get me to the top. You not as heavy as me.

Money, don't cheap out on the battery it's the most expensive part. More is better.
Big wheels are weaker and harder on the motors.

People buy PAS sensors because they are cheaper than Torque sensors. We all want them raylo32. :lol:

You will hear about Grin because we trust them. Good customer support and quality products.
If you have the money they make a great front hub motor. (I want one)

I use a 1500w leafmotor rear hub, it's a great choice. would not run it on the front. They can handle 2000w with out hurting them. People run up to 7Kw in them for short periods need to monitor the heat.

So what do you want? 15mph for 20 miles on flat ground or do you ride in the mountains at 20 mph for 50 miles.

 

[raylo32]

No, torque sensors are not necessarily more expensive. TSDZ2 motor md drive comes with torque sensor for several hundred $$ LESS than BBSHD that uses PAS only. Sure there are tradeoffs. The motor itself is not quite as robust perhaps, but that's one of those tradeoffs that is worth it IMO. (cue Chalo to come in and drop some more troll hate on TSDZ2... LOL.) Then for the Grin hub motor kits torque sense bottom brackets are about $100 additional. Not free, but not exactly a king's ransom either when you are already spending a lot of $$ between motor kit and battery. The problem I see is that many vendors simply don't want to bother with even offering them as an upcharge because there are so many riders and customers who simply don't understand. And these vendors don't even try to educate their potential customers. See also Bafang.

People buy PAS sensors because they are cheaper than Torque sensors. We all want them raylo32. :lol:

 

[ZeroEm]

by raylo32 » Aug 10 2021 5:33pm

No, torque sensors are not necessarily more expensive. TSDZ2 motor md drive comes with torque sensor for several hundred $$ LESS than BBSHD that uses PAS only. Sure there are tradeoffs. The motor itself is not quite as robust perhaps, but that's one of those tradeoffs that is worth it IMO. (cue Chalo to come in and drop some more troll hate on TSDZ2... LOL.) Then for the Grin hub motor kits torque sense bottom brackets are about $100 additional. Not free, but not exactly a king's ransom either when you are already spending a lot of $$ between motor kit and battery. The problem I see is that many vendors simply don't want to bother with even offering them as an upcharge because there are so many riders and customers who simply don't understand. And these vendors don't even try to educate their potential customers. See also Bafang.

I'm not going to buy a TSDZ2 to get a free torque sensor. :lol: I know what you mean.
If you get a kit with out PAS or torque sensor and you want one or the other. I did not put a kit on my trike so I had to choose and PAS sensor was so cheap, thought I would try it and always up grade later. I'm ready for a torque sensor.

 

[raylo32]

Grin sells Sempu and Erider torque BBs. Nothing to it but to do it. And not sure why the hate on TSDZ2. Mine rides fantastic on OSF (and with cooling mods). Quiet, fast efficient. I have done many hilly 30 mile road rides at well over 20 mph average.

I'm not going to buy a TSDZ2 to get a free torque sensor. :lol: I know what you mean.
If you get a kit with out PAS or torque sensor and you want one or the other. I did not put a kit on my trike so I had to choose and PAS sensor was so cheap, thought I would try it and always up grade later. I'm ready for a torque sensor.

 

[ZeroEm]

by raylo32 » Aug 10 2021 5:55pm

Grin sells Sempu and Erider torque BBs. Nothing to it but to do it. And not sure why the hate on TSDZ2. Mine rides fantastic on OSF (and with cooling mods). Quiet, fast efficient. I have done many hilly 30 mile road rides at well over 20 mph average.

Don't hate them, just ignorant of them. Don't want to put added stress on my long 160 link chain. Going to up grade my chain ring to 53T because 80 rpm is more my taste. Have the chain ring, chains and new rear 7 speed for the rear. Could do the torque sensor at the same time.

Getting off Topic, Bikes have many flavors.

 

[LewTwo]

People buy PAS sensors because they are cheaper than Torque sensors. We all want them raylo32.

That is about like "never", "imposible", etc.
Personally I never install anything but a convenient thumb throttle.

 

[Chalo]

And not sure why the hate on TSDZ2.

Pervasive software problems and crank spindles that snap off? Nothing to hate there, I guess.

 

[raylo32]

LOL... The OEM software on mine worked perfectly fine and OSF is even better with additional features. Cranks don't break for us normal size humans... even those of us who can really pedal hard.

And not sure why the hate on TSDZ2.

Pervasive software problems and crank spindles that snap off? Nothing to hate there, I guess.